Expectations vs Reality: My humble opinion on the state of the program and its future based on my own experiences with Gopher Football

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mngg11

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I'm fairly certain that there have been titles almost identical to this one, maybe fairly recently, but I'd just like rehash what I've said in a few recent threads and what I've seen others comment in the past as well: it's amazing that we've gotten to the point as a fanbase that an eight win season with a ninth win including a bowl is a disappointment. I don't see this as a driving issue because I think most of us in the fanbase and most regular posters on this board are objective and most of us, myself included, are thrilled at the level of success we've had, but man does this place become a nightmare when things aren't going well. I think it's great that we're in a position where we can bitch about failing to win games we should win, but sometimes when we get doom and gloom, I have to step back and think about a lot of years where we were just crossing our fingers to be bowl eligible come season's end.

Yes, I guess I'm satisfied with settling for being above average, and some can't stand being simply adequate or above average, but look at the arms race our program is competing against - I think with Fleck and the current admin the U is positioned to be as athletics oriented and successful as we're probably ever going to be. And that's not a bad thing. We're looking at big changes with the B1G and SEC being the two power conferences and we've got a young coach who's got a shtick that kids buy into and has been overwhelmingly successful academics wise, and we have a bunch of 3 star kids playing well above their star rating, especially on defense. I'd be thrilled to take eight wins a year on average for the rest of my life and compete for a conference title ever four or five years with Fleck at the helm. I'd rather be relevant on a yearly basis and have the occasionally dumbfounding loss than take 10 years of mediocrity before we catch lighting in a bottle and then go back to the doldrums for another decade after that lighting wears out.

Again, I'm generally preaching to the choir and bringing up things from months ago but it gets old seeing some of the same old nobodies come out of the woodwork after a bunch of late teen to early 20 somethings fail to execute against a team we should beat on paper and lose, followed by a mass of people calling for the head of the guy who's made us relevant again. Just in my feels tonight.

Happy New Year!
 



I think it’s a good take. Hopefully this trend continues especially with the new teams enter the conference. Going to be a little more tough!
 

I agree with this mostly but the losses haven’t been dumbfounding, they have been semi-often if not consistent.

We haven’t ever won the weakest P5 division in football while Northwestern, Purdue, and Illinois have.

We can win 8 games and claim above average but we don’t win when stakes are high. This isn’t so much a Gophers thing as an MN thing. This state is a magnet for losing when important. Always bet on an MN team to lose when important.
 


SamSquatch said:
I agree with this mostly but the losses haven’t been dumbfounding, they have been semi-often if not consistent.

We haven’t ever won the weakest P5 division in football while Northwestern, Purdue, and Illinois have.

We can win 8 games and claim above average but we don’t win when stakes are high. This isn’t so much a Gophers thing as an MN thing. This state is a magnet for losing when important. Always bet on an MN team to lose when important.
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That's a brutal take. Correct, but brutal.
 

SamSquatch said:
We haven’t ever won the weakest P5 division in football while Northwestern, Purdue, and Illinois have.
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Illinois has never won the BIG West. They were tied with us for 2nd this year -- their highest placement since the inception of divisions.

Nebraska, Illinois, Minnesota are the three teams yet to win the West.
 

I and the Walrus believe that only the conference record counts.
Winning the Axe and the Pig would be second.
Next year will be a challenge with the schedule and new "esteemed" coaches at NE and WI.
 

I believe Fleck continues to build something special here. Not just in terms of wins and losses, but the culture that is producing good young men who go the NFL and go out into the world making a difference. I think he will continue to grow as a coach and grow in influence. Meaning, we will attract a better quality of recruit and have a better team.

I do believe that Fleck is better at culture building and game plan strategy than he is at game making decisions. However, this is something I am hoping he will learn from experience and get a better feel for.

I the great thing is we have more depth than we have had in the last 60 years. We can go into most years know we will be in the top half of the B1G.
 



I like the original post and feel that its a fair assessment. It is a lot easier to be calm and objective months after a loss like the loss to Purdue. I believe that we were further along at the end of 2019 and with the bowl win against Auburn, than we are now. I also believe that the covid year of 2020 hurt us more than most teams. I know that we would have been further along with recruiting and West championships had we been able to build on that 11 win season the following year.

I transferred to the U in 1969 and have been a Gopher fan ever since. I don't know how much time God will give me to see championships at the U, but I will continue to support our football and basketball programs and totally enjoy the process along the way.
 

SamSquatch said:
I agree with this mostly but the losses haven’t been dumbfounding, they have been semi-often if not consistent.

We haven’t ever won the weakest P5 division in football while Northwestern, Purdue, and Illinois have.

We can win 8 games and claim above average but we don’t win when stakes are high. This isn’t so much a Gophers thing as an MN thing. This state is a magnet for losing when important. Always bet on an MN team to lose when important.
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Correct.
Head-scratching loses have been consistent and could have easily included 2019 as our non-conference wins were incredibly close.

We all agree, it’s nice to get back to Mason-level success (maybe even better than Mason), but we did lose to a really bad MAC team and we have yet to beat Iowa when multiple games were there for the taking.

And we all agree we’d like to see a play to win instead of hang on to win mindset, passes to running backs and tight ends, the occasional up tempo snap… every year we say we will implement these things next year, and we never do.

That’s fine, but then beat Iowa and/or win the Big Ten West or some people will start questioning your decision-making. That type of pressure comes with any high-paying, high-profile job.

If the OP was the Wisconsin AD they’d still have Chryst. Who is to say who is right or wrong, but those who feel PJ is infallible usually don’t refute anything we say, they just resort to name-calling. Even the OP says he feels to share his opinion on a message board, and anyone with a different opinion is a “nobody”. Ok.
 
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Plato said:
I and the Walrus believe that only the conference record counts.
Winning the Axe and the Pig would be second.
Next year will be a challenge with the schedule and new "esteemed" coaches at NE and WI.
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NE and WI are going to be in year 0!
 

Like I said in the other thread.

We had identical overall record as last year, but this year was a much bigger disappointment. Why? Because we easily could have won the Purdue and Iowa games, and doing so would've meant being Big Ten West champions and championship game participants.


So it's not so simple to just saying "I like that an eight win season is a disappointment". My opinion
 



SamSquatch said:
I agree with this mostly but the losses haven’t been dumbfounding, they have been semi-often if not consistent.

We haven’t ever won the weakest P5 division in football while Northwestern, Purdue, and Illinois have.

We can win 8 games and claim above average but we don’t win when stakes are high. This isn’t so much a Gophers thing as an MN thing. This state is a magnet for losing when important. Always bet on an MN team to lose when important.
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Largely agree, except that for some reason Fleck has found a way against Wisconsin, with 2019 being a sad, notable exception. Really, really needed the game this year, though, and did it.

Iowa has been the opposite, unfortunately.
 
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CoachBrewMotivator said:
Illinois has never won the BIG West. They were tied with us for 2nd this year -- their highest placement since the inception of divisions.

Nebraska, Illinois, Minnesota are the three teams yet to win the West.
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Well, we technically have a trophy for the 2019 season. But doesn't feel like we won the division that year. :(
 

Atl Gopher said:
I also believe that the covid year of 2020 hurt us more than most teams. I know that we would have been further along with recruiting and West championships had we been able to build on that 11 win season the following year.
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Hate this all you want but: Fleck knew that 2020 was going to be a bad year for Gopher football. He knew it all along, and why he (to my recollection) seemed to put it out there early that he was just fine with the season not being played, player's and fan's safety is all that matters, etc. etc.

If it had been a normal year ... it would've been worse. Covid actually moderated it a bit.
 

It's Ohio State, Michigan and PSU to a lesser extent that are blue-blood targets at the top when it comes to the program pipeline due to history, recruiting and money. All other teams are in the mix for occasionally battling with those three for the top spot. MSU with Dantonio and Wisconsin with Bielema briefly broke through to grab the top spot a couple times since divisions were formed. A few other teams have been really close but haven't broken through including Iowa, Northwestern and then Minnesota 2019.

I think PJ has the goal of being a Dantonio or Ferentz type (different personalities of course) by building a great program that has the chance of knocking off the top dogs in any given year. He's close, but I think he needs to strike lightning in a bottle soon to push them into that Dantonio Michigan State level. I thought that would be 2019, but then the pandemic and GF happened which probably pushed them back.

I think Ohio State eventually takes a small step back with Day in and Urban Meyer gone. Urban Meyer is a football genius, like or not. Michigan seemed like they slightly overachieved the past couple years; I don't know if they can sustain at the current level. PSU is all over hell and Franklin just can't seem to knock off OSU even with a lot of resources (you think PJ has an Iowa problem?).

In short, PJ has built a solid program with depth that continues to get wins even when facing major injuries as they have the past couple years. I think that if he keeps hammering at that big rock in the stream, it will eventually split and produce a nice gold nugget at the bottom (see scene from Pale Rider). I'll be along for the ride.
 

I disagree with this take. I remember the Rose Bowls and a national championship. My father also went to the U and remembered the true Golden Era. I find inadequate satisfaction in moderate success.
 

Rockraven said:
I disagree with this take. I remember the Rose Bowls and a national championship. My father also went to the U and remembered the true Golden Era. I find inadequate satisfaction in moderate success.
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Problem with this: Gopher football only had that era because they were one of the first schools to allow Blacks to play. That was the thing. It's also why programs like Syracuse had golden eras too.
 

Rockraven said:
I disagree with this take. I remember the Rose Bowls and a national championship. My father also went to the U and remembered the true Golden Era. I find inadequate satisfaction in moderate success.
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I get what you're saying, but that era is totally gone. A team can't go 8-2 and still make it to the Rose Bowl or get awarded a Natty by simple vote. It was much easier for a non-blue blood to strike lighting in a bottle with so fewer games and only a vote for who's best. Hell, Minnesota lost to Washington in the Rose Bowl and still was awarded a Natty. That's unbelievable.
 

Panthadad2 said:
It's Ohio State, Michigan and PSU to a lesser extent that are blue-blood targets at the top when it comes to the program pipeline due to history, recruiting and money. All other teams are in the mix for occasionally battling with those three for the top spot. MSU with Dantonio and Wisconsin with Bielema briefly broke through to grab the top spot a couple times since divisions were formed. A few other teams have been really close but haven't broken through including Iowa, Northwestern and then Minnesota 2019.

I think PJ has the goal of being a Dantonio or Ferentz type (different personalities of course) by building a great program that has the chance of knocking off the top dogs in any given year. He's close, but I think he needs to strike lightning in a bottle soon to push them into that Dantonio Michigan State level. I thought that would be 2019, but then the pandemic and GF happened which probably pushed them back.

I think Ohio State eventually takes a small step back with Day in and Urban Meyer gone. Urban Meyer is a football genius, like or not. Michigan seemed like they slightly overachieved the past couple years; I don't know if they can sustain at the current level. PSU is all over hell and Franklin just can't seem to knock off OSU even with a lot of resources (you think PJ has an Iowa problem?).

In short, PJ has built a solid program with depth that continues to get wins even when facing major injuries as they have the past couple years. I think that if he keeps hammering at that big rock in the stream, it will eventually split and produce a nice gold nugget at the bottom (see scene from Pale Rider). I'll be along for the ride.
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The big challenge has always been, and will always be, recruiting here.

We produce a fair bit of talent in-state, but the blue chippers tend to want out and try someplace else (at least initially).

Getting kids who grew up outside the upper midwest to come to very cold and culturally different (is what it is) place is a challenge, when they have closer, more like home options.
 

Replacement Gopher said:
Correct.

And we all agree we’d like to see a play to win instead of hang on to win mindset, passes to running backs and tight ends, the occasional up tempo snap… every year we say we will implement these things next year, and we never do.
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When has anyone associated with the team ever said throwing to the Running Back or going more uptempo is going to be implemented? Not sure what team you watched last year but BSF led the team in receptions and was second in yards so umm we do throw to the TE.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Problem with this: Gopher football only had that era because they were one of the first schools to allow Blacks to play. That was the thing. It's also why programs like Syracuse had golden eras too.
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Not reasons. Excuses for Minnesota mediocrity.
 


Y
Panthadad2 said:
I get what you're saying, but that era is totally gone. A team can't go 8-2 and still make it to the Rose Bowl or get awarded a Natty by simple vote. It was much easier for a non-blue blood to strike lighting in a bottle with so fewer games and only a vote for who's best. Hell, Minnesota lost to Washington in the Rose Bowl and still was awarded a Natty. That's unbelievable.
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Time for the new Era of Excellence.
 

Gophers_4life said:
The big challenge has always been, and will always be, recruiting here.

We produce a fair bit of talent in-state, but the blue chippers tend to want out and try someplace else (at least initially).

Getting kids who grew up outside the upper midwest to come to very cold and culturally different (is what it is) place is a challenge, when they have closer, more like home options.
Click to expand...

Wisconsin and Michigan State have done it, at least at the level to challenge for the top on occasion. Minnesota can do it at that level. There are only a small handful of true blue-bloods that have the ability challenge for the top every single year. We know who they are. Everyone else is chasing.
 

Gophers_4life said:
The big challenge has always been, and will always be, recruiting here.

We produce a fair bit of talent in-state, but the blue chippers tend to want out and try someplace else (at least initially).

Getting kids who grew up outside the upper midwest to come to very cold and culturally different (is what it is) place is a challenge, when they have closer, more like home options.
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Then stand up to the challenge!
 

Panthadad2 said:
Wisconsin and Michigan State have done it, at least at the level to challenge for the top on occasion. Minnesota can do it at that level. There are only a small handful of true blue-bloods that have the ability challenge for the top every single year. We know who they are. Everyone else is chasing.
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Would be interesting to do a in-depth analysis of the Wisconsin rosters since the early 2010's and see where their major stars came from.

My suspicion is just that, for whatever reasons, they are much better at being able to keep their homegrown blue chippers home.


Minnesota blue chippers, can't leave the state fast enough, for some reason.
 


Gophers_4life said:
No, that doesn't work on this one. Sorry, it is what it is.

Minnesota can't get guys like Tony Dungy, Carl Eller now. Now those guys go to Alabama, Georgia, etc. Places that spit on Black folks back then.
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It isn’t what it is. You are expressing who are are. Not bad, just average.
 

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