Expectations vs Reality: My humble opinion on the state of the program and its future based on my own experiences with Gopher Football

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Gophers_4life said:
The big challenge has always been, and will always be, recruiting here.

We produce a fair bit of talent in-state, but the blue chippers tend to want out and try someplace else (at least initially).

Getting kids who grew up outside the upper midwest to come to very cold and culturally different (is what it is) place is a challenge, when they have closer, more like home options.
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Please explain.
 

Gopher_In_NYC said:
I think what people are forgetting is that didn’t we come within one blown game of winning the B10 outright during the Mason era at least once?
So it can be done, we need to go up a level, have a friendly schedule and the red of our competitors have a down year
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Mason was close to getting it done, and seems like most people agree Fleck is better. I don't understand people suggesting that the end of divsions makes winning the conference an impossible goal.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
Mason was close to getting it done, and seems like most people agree Fleck is better. I don't understand people suggesting that the end of divsions makes winning the conference an impossible goal.
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my point, is that if we don’t blow the game to Michigan in the Dome when we rushed for 300+ Yards and are ahead 28-7 or was it 35-7 in the third quarter, during the Mason era, then I think we could have won the B10 that year, so with a few good bounces why can’t we do it under Fleck?
 
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I'm glad we beat SUCKACUSE, because we were supposed to.
If the Gophers lose to any of the west rookie coaches in 2023 it's inexcusable.
I'm looking forward to see how it plays out.
Fleck, the memo been sent and you're on notice.
 


Rockraven said:
I disagree with this take. I remember the Rose Bowls and a national championship. My father also went to the U and remembered the true Golden Era. I find inadequate satisfaction in moderate success.
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Gopher football was the biggest sports attraction in Minnesota until 61. Easier to recruit when your program is on page one. But when all the pro teams came to The Twin Cities, Gopher football fell to page two or three. Blue chippers want to be on page one.
 

FanSinceTheFifties said:
Gopher football was the biggest sports attraction in Minnesota until 61. Easier to recruit when your program is on page one. But when all the pro teams came to The Twin Cities, Gopher football fell to page two or three. Blue chippers want to be on page one.
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Malcolm Moose. That’s all.
 

Gopher_In_NYC said:
I think what people are forgetting is that didn’t we come within one blown game of winning the B10 outright during the Mason era at least once?
So it can be done, we need to go up a level, have a friendly schedule and the red of our competitors have a down year
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I think Mason’s best record in the Big 10 was 5-3 which he did twice. We lost the Michigan game one year….but there were 3 teams that finished 6-2 that year in the Big 10 besides Michigan finishing 7-1.
 

Gopher_In_NYC said:
my point, is that if we don’t blow the game to Michigan in the Dome when we rushed for 300+ Yards and are ahead 28-7 or was it 35-7 in the third quarter, during the Mason era, then I think we could have won the B10 that year, so with a few good bounces why can’t we do it under Fleck?
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We would have gone to the Rose Bowl because we hadn’t been there in the longest time….but it would have been a 4 way tie for first place.
 



PMWinSTP said:
Please explain.
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I don't think there should be much explanation required that Minneapolis does not have the same culture as down in Alabama, Georgia, Florida.

Regardless of tolerance for cold, it can easily be the case that someone from those states can feel very out of place here.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Problem with this: Gopher football only had that era because they were one of the first schools to allow Blacks to play. That was the thing. It's also why programs like Syracuse had romgolden eras too.
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A common, and misleading, explanation for Minnesota's success pre-62 and the decline after that.

From Wiki: "George Henry Jewett II (April 1870 – August 12, 1908) was an American athlete who became the first African-American football player at both the University of Michigan and Northwestern University, and in the Big Ten Conference. He played for the Michigan Wolverines as a fullback, halfback, and field goal kicker in 1890 and 1892 and was considered one of Michigan's greatest players in the pre-Fielding H. Yost era."

The whole Big Ten enjoyed the benefit of players of all races throughout the 60s as many schools and some conferences remained whites-only until the 70s.

The bigger, and unique, reason the Gophers lost their recruiting advantage was the arrival of pro sports (especially the Vikings) to the TCs in 61 dislodging the Gophers as the premier Minnesota sports attraction. Blue chip players chose schools like Iowa and Wisconsin which don't play in the shadow of the NFL.

Besides the the Gophers' subordinate place in fan and media adoration, other recruiting disadvantages include limited in-state talent, cold weather, distance from talent-rich areas, a non-college-town atmosphere, and the decades-long history of poor-to-mediocre performance.

The Fleck and Mason eras lifted the program to above average performance and they deserve credit for doing so given these recruiting disadvantages.

What is the ceiling? I don't know, but I suspect 2019 is pretty close to it.
 


FanSinceTheFifties said:
A common, and misleading, explanation for Minnesota's success pre-62 and the decline after that.

From Wiki: "George Henry Jewett II (April 1870 – August 12, 1908) was an American athlete who became the first African-American football player at both the University of Michigan and Northwestern University, and in the Big Ten Conference. He played for the Michigan Wolverines as a fullback, halfback, and field goal kicker in 1890 and 1892 and was considered one of Michigan's greatest players in the pre-Fielding H. Yost era."

The whole Big Ten enjoyed the benefit of players of all races throughout the 60s as many schools and some conferences remained whites-only until the 70s.

The bigger, and unique, reason the Gophers lost their recruiting advantage was the arrival of pro sports (especially the Vikings) to the TCs in 61 dislodging the Gophers as the premier Minnesota sports attraction. Blue chip players chose schools like Iowa and Wisconsin which don't play in the shadow of the NFL.

Besides the the Gophers' subordinate place in fan and media adoration, other recruiting disadvantages include limited in-state talent, cold weather, distance from talent-rich areas, a non-college-town atmosphere, and the decades-long history of poor-to-mediocre performance.

The Fleck and Mason eras lifted the program to above average performance and they deserve credit for doing so given these recruiting disadvantages.

What is the ceiling? I don't know, but I suspect 2019 is pretty close to it.
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Bolded makes no sense to me. Why should a player, regardless if in the 70's or now, care if the market a school is in also has a successful NFL team?

If the college is drawing good crowds, then it is drawing good crowds.


I'll repeat what I said and ask you to address it directly, instead of bringing up a player from the early 1900's: the U of Minn doesn't (very often) get players like Dungy and Eller anymore, because now (and for a while) those players can go to Alabama, Georgia, etc. and not worry about racial hatred and segregation.

That was still very much alive in the 60's, down there.
 



ethomasp31 said:
We would have gone to the Rose Bowl because we hadn’t been there in the longest time….but it would have been a 4 way tie for first place.
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Thank you for clarifying and that was my point, we almost got there once before, I don’t think it’s absurd test we can do it again - the AK era should put us on a +30 PPG mark moving forward and usher in a new level of success
 

Gophers_4life said:
I don't think there should be much explanation required that Minneapolis does not have the same culture as down in Alabama, Georgia, Florida.

Regardless of tolerance for cold, it can easily be the case that someone from those states can feel very out of place here.
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But they go to Mich, Mich State, Iowa, Wisc, Nebraska and many other places that don't have the same culture either, so please explain further.
 

Gopher_In_NYC said:
Thank you for clarifying and that was my point, we almost got there once before, I don’t think it’s absurd test we can do it again - the AK era should put us on a +30 PPG mark moving forward and usher in a new level of success
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I agree….I don’t think it is impossible for the Gophers to go to the B1G championship game after USC and UCLA join the conference. I’m sure many would have said the same thing about us with Nebraska when they joined the conference.
 

ethomasp31 said:
I agree….I don’t think it is impossible for the Gophers to go to the B1G championship game after USC and UCLA join the conference. I’m sure many would have said the same thing about us with Nebraska when they joined the conference.
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Tulane 😃
 
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Gophers_4life said:
I don't think there should be much explanation required that Minneapolis does not have the same culture as down in Alabama, Georgia, Florida.
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And thank God for that. It might be fun to get housed on a Saturday morning but you do not want to live your life for Saturdays in places like Oxford, MS and such.

Minnesotans are fans but most have lives with other priorities. The south doesn’t have a lot going for it and the ultra-fetish for college football is more off-putting than it is endearing.

This geographic divide will erode some soon as talent will attract to where there is NIL money. In current structure, that means the top 25 rankings will closely resemble the list of top 25 NIL spending institutions.
 

PMWinSTP said:
But they go to Mich, Mich State, Iowa, Wisc, Nebraska and many other places that don't have the same culture either, so please explain further.
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Do they go there? More than zero do, sure, but that's no different than here. Bateman was from Georgia. We always get more than zero from the south, as do the programs you list (Neb may have more of a Texas slant, from historical roots in the Big 8/12).

I think a lot of the "star" players on those programs actually come from the midwest. And for the Mich schools, from Ohio.


I don't know what Carl Eller would have been rated if he had grown up in his North Carolina hometown today. I assume a 5*? Maybe that's not true, I don't know. But let's assume it was true. He came to the U back then because it was a top national program and because his options in the south were much more limited (if not completely closed off) due to racism/segregation.


I'm simply contending that 5* Carl Eller's from North Carolina today, will now never pick the U over legit offers from Alabama and Georgia.


I don't think you disagree?



Dungy is actually a different story, as he was from Michigan. So that one probably doesn't hold water for what I'm arguing. Rather, back then the role of the U and Michigan were probably just reversed from what they are today, and he chose the U for being a better program. Wild guess
 

ethomasp31 said:
I think Mason’s best record in the Big 10 was 5-3 which he did twice. We lost the Michigan game one year….but there were 3 teams that finished 6-2 that year in the Big 10 besides Michigan finishing 7-1.
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The Gophers would've gone to the Rose Bowl that year if we had beaten Michigan because we hadn't been there as recently as other teams (although I believe we would've beaten MSU the following week if we had beaten the Wolverines). What many are not aware of is the same was true in 1999. We lost in overtime to Wisconsin; win that game and we would've tied for the title and gone to the Rose Bowl.
 

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