ESPN: Stats that defined 2016: Minnesota Gophers (29.3, 117.8, 9)

[KGF]

At the risk of pissing off the TC defenders again, the ESPN article's analysis doesn't scratch the surface on the performance of the 2016 Offense. It notes that the Gophers scored 29 points/game vs 22.5 for 2015. Maybe the inclusion of TCU, Ohio State, and Michigan on the 2015 schedule and instead having Indiana St, Rutgers, and Maryland had something to do with the points/game improvement. The rest of the schedule was basically the same. And, as I've noted before, the 2015 Offense was more balanced between run and pass, and produced the same total yards/game at 2016. Even though TC said he wanted to have more balance (look it up in preseason articles if you don't want to believe it) in the 2016 Offense, the Gophers had far less balance and ML7 struggled.
The TC defenders want to blame the attendance reduction on a weak schedule, but ignore the weak schedule in team performance.
TC's Defenses were always good to great, but the Offensive growth that TC desired did not occur.

 

[Hates Monikers]

It might have been better than if we played Indiana, MSU, OSU, or Michigan that day.

True, but it's still just one game. The 2015 schedule was pretty strong, and the defensive results were similar to this year. We can all make any argument we want if we cherry-pick one game.

 

[GopherHusky]

Stats that defined 2016 Gophers

0: Number of agents TC had.
2: 2nd most penalities in the B10, behind Maryland.
4: 2nd half meltdowns that led to a loss.
41: Gopher percentage share of all B10 targeting penalties.
170.5: Avg rushing yards per loss given up.

 

[bottlebass]

The TC defenders want to blame the attendance reduction on a weak schedule, but ignore the weak schedule in team performance.

Attendance only has to do with home schedule. It was a lame home schedule outside of Iowa, nothing really sexy there to get the masses going. I think most TC defenders would blame the attendance reduction on the ridiculous ticket price increases that pissed off a large percentage of season ticket holders.

I agree the schedule was weaker this year but we had 3 more B1G wins than a year ago so how does the weak schedule really factor into team performance? We traded two hard B1G crossovers in Mich and Ohio st for weaker opponents and won those games. We also added a B1G game and it was against the eventual B1G champion on the road, we also had 2 of the top 3 teams in our division on the road this year instead of at home. So the B1G schedule really wasn't that much weaker if at all.

 

[PMWinSTP]

It might have been better than if we played Indiana, MSU, OSU, or Michigan that day.

Or not. Handled WSU fairly well with bench players. I'm not worried about the D.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Stats that defined the 2016 Gophers:

173.6 - passing yards per game
4 - passing TDs in Big Ten play
1 - number of WRs with more than 20 catches
1/7 - combined touchdowns to interceptions in second half vs. PSU, Iowa, Neb, Wis

This team simply could not pass the football when they needed to. To me, that sums up the season.

Yep . Fleck doesn't need to do much to improve on this side of the ball...and I expect he will immediately. Eight regular season wins should be expected.

 

[PMWinSTP]

At the risk of pissing off the TC defenders again, the ESPN article's analysis doesn't scratch the surface on the performance of the 2016 Offense. It notes that the Gophers scored 29 points/game vs 22.5 for 2015. Maybe the inclusion of TCU, Ohio State, and Michigan on the 2015 schedule and instead having Indiana St, Rutgers, and Maryland had something to do with the points/game improvement. The rest of the schedule was basically the same. And, as I've noted before, the 2015 Offense was more balanced between run and pass, and produced the same total yards/game at 2016. Even though TC said he wanted to have more balance (look it up in preseason articles if you don't want to believe it) in the 2016 Offense, the Gophers had far less balance and ML7 struggled.
The TC defenders want to blame the attendance reduction on a weak schedule, but ignore the weak schedule in team performance.
TC's Defenses were always good to great, but the Offensive growth that TC desired did not occur.

No...donation increase was a majority of the drop, and the weak schedule made that worse. He had one year as a HC with a new OC and got nine wins. You sure had pretty high expectations for him on offense.

 

[PitinoFan]

Or not. Handled WSU fairly well with bench players. I'm not worried about the D.

WSU plays in a conference with almost no defense. Put them in the B1G, and they're likely no better than average offensively.




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[PMWinSTP]

Stats that defined 2016 Gophers

0: Number of agents TC had.
2: 2nd most penalities in the B10, behind Maryland.
4: 2nd half meltdowns that led to a loss.
41: Gopher percentage share of all B10 targeting penalties.
170.5: Avg rushing yards per loss given up.

9: Games won despite all of the above.

 

[PMWinSTP]

WSU plays in a conference with almost no defense. Put them in the B1G, and they're likely no better than average offensively.




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Interesting...somehow that conference with almost no defense managed to have 4 teams in the top 20 for defense.

 

[PitinoFan]

Interesting...somehow that conference with almost no defense managed to have 4 teams in the top 20 for defense.

There very well may be the case, but most of the rest are awful defensively. I assumed you've watched some of the games?

I'm not suggesting it wasn't a good defensive effort by the Gophers in the bowl game. All things considered, it was probably the best of the year. I just think WSU was a little overrated offensively.


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[PMWinSTP]

There very well may be the case, but most of the rest are awful defensively. I assumed you've watched some of the games?

I'm not suggesting it wasn't a good defensive effort by the Gophers in the bowl game. All things considered, it was probably the best of the year. I just think WSU was a little overrated offensively.


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I did, and they do like their offenses in the PAC12. Four top 20 offenses, but it is the case that it also had 4 top ranked defenses.

I do appreciate that you tempered your initial response.

 

[PitinoFan]

I did, and they do like their offenses in the PAC12. Four top 20 offenses, but it is the case that it also had 4 top ranked defenses.

I do appreciate that you tempered your initial response.

And WSU only played two of those T20 defenses and got blown out both times, scoring 24 in one game, 17 in the other.


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[PMWinSTP]

And WSU only played two of those T20 defenses and got blown out both times, scoring 24 in one game, 17 in the other.


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OK, how many wins do you expect Fleck to win in 2017?

 

[PitinoFan]

OK, how many wins do you expect Fleck to win in 2017?

I need to know the status of the suspended players first.


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[HoustonTXGopher]

Why is ESPN acting like 9 wins was good?


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It was good, it just wasn't ELITE!

 

[PMWinSTP]

And WSU only played two of those T20 defenses and got blown out both times, scoring 24 in one game, 17 in the other.


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They beat Stanford. Handily.

 

[PMWinSTP]

I need to know the status of the suspended players first.


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BS.

 

[PMWinSTP]

And WSU only played two of those T20 defenses and got blown out both times, scoring 24 in one game, 17 in the other.


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Gophs basically held WSU to 2 FGs. Six points. With backups. Garbage TD at the end. Way less than the two losses WSU had to the two PAC12 top 20 defenses.

 

[KGF]

Attendance only has to do with home schedule. It was a lame home schedule outside of Iowa, nothing really sexy there to get the masses going. I think most TC defenders would blame the attendance reduction on the ridiculous ticket price increases that pissed off a large percentage of season ticket holders.

I agree the schedule was weaker this year but we had 3 more B1G wins than a year ago so how does the weak schedule really factor into team performance? We traded two hard B1G crossovers in Mich and Ohio st for weaker opponents and won those games. We also added a B1G game and it was against the eventual B1G champion on the road, we also had 2 of the top 3 teams in our division on the road this year instead of at home. So the B1G schedule really wasn't that much weaker if at all.

You didn't mention TCU instead on Indiana St. Agree Penn St was better than expected, but the Gophers played them when they were missing several key starters on Defense, the week after their 49-10 loss to Michigan. And Michigan and Ohio State for Rutgers and Maryland? Come on.
The Gophers had to play those two in '14 and '15 and we Gopher fans were rightfully ticked off by the B1G scheduling that two years in a row, while Wisconsin and Iowa got the weak schedules.
If the Gophers had played Michigan and Ohio State in 2016, they would've likely been 6-6, and likely beat up a bit more. Would that make them any less good. On the surface yes, in reality no.
I wonder if TC would've been so bold to predict 8-10 wins in the regular season if we had the 2014 or 2015 schedule.

 

[PitinoFan]

BS.

Why is that BS? You want me to make a prediction or set an expectation without knowing the status a few key players? I'll let you know after the results of the appeal are known.


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[bottlebass]

You didn't mention TCU instead on Indiana St. Agree Penn St was better than expected, but the Gophers played them when they were missing several key starters on Defense, the week after their 49-10 loss to Michigan. And Michigan and Ohio State for Rutgers and Maryland? Come on.
The Gophers had to play those two in '14 and '15 and we Gopher fans were rightfully ticked off by the B1G scheduling that two years in a row, while Wisconsin and Iowa got the weak schedules.
If the Gophers had played Michigan and Ohio State in 2016, they would've likely been 6-6, and likely beat up a bit more. Would that make them any less good. On the surface yes, in reality no.
I wonder if TC would've been so bold to predict 8-10 wins in the regular season if we had the 2014 or 2015 schedule.

Yep keep ignoring playing Nebraska and Wisconsin on the road along with Penn St. in factoring in the difficulty of schedule. It was weaker than last year by a slim margin yet we won 3 more B1G games.

I left TCU out because I was mainly talking about the B1G season which really is the only thing that matters unless we are talking about CFP. But yes, not having a TCU style opponent for non-conference also hurt attendance, thanks for helping my point and hurting yours.

 

[KGF]

No...donation increase was a majority of the drop, and the weak schedule made that worse. He had one year as a HC with a new OC and got nine wins. You sure had pretty high expectations for him on offense.

I didn't have high expectations for TC's Offense, he did. And they fell flat. There wasn't a lot of "roadgrading" happening on the OL, and the hope for the passing game was just that, hope. And frankly, I don't blame that on Mitch. I was no big fan of Limegrover, but he was smart enough to get Mitch out of the pocket with bootlegs and roll outs when the Gopher's OL lost a few starters. The big difference in the second half of 2015 was the passing game. I suspect Limegrover had more freedom to improvise after Kill had to resign.

 

[PMWinSTP]

I didn't have high expectations for TC's Offense, he did. And they fell flat. There wasn't a lot of "roadgrading" happening on the OL, and the hope for the passing game was just that, hope. And frankly, I don't blame that on Mitch. I was no big fan of Limegrover, but he was smart enough to get Mitch out of the pocket with bootlegs and roll outs when the Gopher's OL lost a few starters. The big difference in the second half of 2015 was the passing game. I suspect Limegrover had more freedom to improvise after Kill had to resign.

Nine wins. One year. New OC.

 

[KGF]

Yep keep ignoring playing Nebraska and Wisconsin on the road along with Penn St. in factoring in the difficulty of schedule. It was weaker than last year by a slim margin yet we won 3 more B1G games.

I left TCU out because I was mainly talking about the B1G season which really is the only thing that matters unless we are talking about CFP. But yes, not having a TCU style opponent for non-conference also hurt attendance, thanks for helping my point and hurting yours.

Oh, so can can ignore what you want to make your point? I'm talking about the entire season. And "ignoring" teams that the Gophers lost to in both years isn't ignoring them, it's a wash. SMH
And, just for the record, I didn't give a theory on the attendance. I pointed out how other posters were using a weak schedule as an excuse for attendance, then "ignoring" it from a strength of competition view.
See what you want to see. I, and others, have pointed out the flaws in the theory of this great year of TC football.
IMO, it was a matter of time before the wins began to decline. And PJF has come along at the right time.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Why is that BS? You want me to make a prediction or set an expectation without knowing the status a few key players? I'll let you know after the results of the appeal are known.


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Yes it is...a few starters who missed a third of the season? Every team loses key players. Iowa lost almost all of its skilled players on offense. Do you expect Fleck to match TC's 8 wins? Perception is Fleck is an upgrade at HC. Won 13 games last year. Better HC (who is offensively focused), better players, better resources, better facilities, five B1G games at home.

 

[leadpipegopher]

At the risk of pissing off the TC defenders again, the ESPN article's analysis doesn't scratch the surface on the performance of the 2016 Offense. It notes that the Gophers scored 29 points/game vs 22.5 for 2015. Maybe the inclusion of TCU, Ohio State, and Michigan on the 2015 schedule and instead having Indiana St, Rutgers, and Maryland had something to do with the points/game improvement. The rest of the schedule was basically the same. And, as I've noted before, the 2015 Offense was more balanced between run and pass, and produced the same total yards/game at 2016. Even though TC said he wanted to have more balance (look it up in preseason articles if you don't want to believe it) in the 2016 Offense, the Gophers had far less balance and ML7 struggled.
The TC defenders want to blame the attendance reduction on a weak schedule, but ignore the weak schedule in team performance.
TC's Defenses were always good to great, but the Offensive growth that TC desired did not occur.

Great points, if you don't get the desired results in the first year a change of course is probably best. If PJ only scrapes out 8 or 9 wins next year without significant statistical improvement, I'll expect to see you on here pointing out as much.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Great points, if you don't get the desired results in the first year a change of course is probably best. If PJ only scrapes out 8 or 9 wins next year without significant statistical improvement, I'll expect to see you on here pointing out as much.

Nicely done. Pretty obvious KGF is trying to downplay TC's success last year to tamp down expectations for PJ this year. Funny how that works...

 

[bottlebass]

Oh, so can can ignore what you want to make your point? I'm talking about the entire season. And "ignoring" teams that the Gophers lost to in both years isn't ignoring them, it's a wash. SMH
And, just for the record, I didn't give a theory on the attendance. I pointed out how other posters were using a weak schedule as an excuse for attendance, then "ignoring" it from a strength of competition view.
See what you want to see. I, and others, have pointed out the flaws in the theory of this great year of TC football.
IMO, it was a matter of time before the wins began to decline. And PJF has come along at the right time.

Since you refused to acknowledge what I was laying out for you here is a link. Strength of schedule this year 53rd, last year 55th.
https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/ranking/schedule-strength-by-other?date=2017-01-10

Like I said, the schedule really wasn't weaker this year. It just looked that way before the season. When people say "weak schedule" with attendance they mean we didn't play wisconsin, nebraska or a splashy East team at home. Again add in that we didn't play a splashy non conference game (since you insist on looking at the whole season) and of course attendance would be down due to the "weak schedule". That doesn't mean the opponents we played were weak over all. See the difference? Probably not since this is the 3rd time i've had to post this. And again, most TC backers aren't blaming the schedule first and foremost, it was the ticket price increases.

As far as your opinion goes, of course wins would decline eventually no matter who is coach. 9 wins was basically a historic season for the Gophers. The coach of that historic season got canned. History shows PJ will not likely improve on 9 wins.

 

[PitinoFan]

Yes it is...a few starters who missed a third of the season? Every team loses key players. Iowa lost almost all of its skilled players on offense. Do you expect Fleck to match TC's 8 wins? Perception is Fleck is an upgrade at HC. Won 13 games last year. Better HC (who is offensively focused), better players, better resources, better facilities, five B1G games at home.

I see that you're doing your best to set Fleck up to fail, but I gave you my answer. At this point, I have no idea what to expect, and neither do you.


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