ESPN details the Tenn Vol fball player attack on Gary Russell at bar

BleedGopher

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ESPN details the Tenn Vol fball player attack on Gary Russell (not our GR) at bar

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5378061

I love that in most of the articles detailing this beating that the bar owners openly share that the Vol football players get in free. Isn't that an admission of a violation?

Go Gophers!!
 

Should be noted that this is not *the* Gary Russell, which is what I took from your headline.
 


Haha, I totally received this story differently than intended based on the topic heading.
 

A real man will pull his buddy away from a situation like this. A little boy (I don't care how big you are, you can still be a little boy) will join in on the beating for fear of being seen as weak. There will come a time when football is done, and all these favors and special treatments will come to an end. Players need to grow out of this or they are going to get in real trouble once no one is covering for them.

And I realize that we've had Gopher players who have gotten into fights, but this is way beyond that. Some of the TN fans are assuming that Russell must have thrown the first punch, despite being more than 8 inches shorter than the players, or that it was justified if he was "mouthy". There is also some questioning of whether pro bono legal aid from a high priced defense lawyer constitutes an illegal gift. It's also suspicious that the security camera supposedly failed 2 days earlier - possible but suspicious.

The players seem to have kept their stories straight, but other witnesses have different versions.
 



Raise your hand if you think the smaller guy, who was not drinking attacked the 6'4" 312lb DT and his 16 teammates?
 

I'm sure he attacked. And it was a ferocious attack, requiring all of the teammakes to join in the counter-attack. Had there been one less player there, this 5'8" killing machine would have destroyed them all.
 

Raise your hand if you think the smaller guy, who was not drinking attacked the 6'4" 312lb DT and his 16 teammates?

I have seen a 115lb woman slap a 300lb football player (no, not a gopher), anything is possible. I have no idea what happened in this case but I know first hand it is not unusal for nonathletes to attack athletes. They figure the athlete won't fight back because they have more to lose (which should be the case) and they get to look big in front of their friends.

Did anybody else take note that without seeing who hit whom first the bar owner stated that Russel did not hit Huges first because Hughes was big. Ooookay?

Personally I'n not an advacate for violence, people should respect one another.....but if you hit someone regardless of what sex you are or how small in comparison to the other person you are, you should expect to get hit back. If it's harder or worse than the hit you gave the other person? Sucks being you.
 



The football players have one version of the story, but other observers have a different version. Sounds like the football players all got together to decide what version of the story they want to tell.

And even if he DID hit him, this doesn't justify any and all responses, such half the team beating the crap out of someone.
 


The football players have one version of the story, but other observers have a different version. Sounds like the football players all got together to decide what version of the story they want to tell.

And even if he DID hit him, this doesn't justify any and all responses, such half the team beating the crap out of someone.

Other versions? No, the guy who got beat up and his friends have their own version. Whose is correct? I don't know. Is it possible that he and his friends "all got together?" or is that something that only athletes do?

Again, I have no idea whose story is correct but if you hit someone all bets are off. Does that mean that if the football player was hit first that his friends are entitiled to jump in? It depends on the situation. The article said it was a bar fight, that leads me to believe that there were other participants other than the football players, I don't envision them randomly punching innoncent bystanders mining their own business.

Have I seen athletes behave like A-holes? I Sure have, but I have also seen average days Joe's spout off at the mouth and pick a fight and then become totally surprised when they get their arse kicked. My point is, we don't have enough information to assume who is at fault.
 

Other versions? No, the guy who got beat up and his friends have their own version. Whose is correct? I don't know. Is it possible that he and his friends "all got together?" or is that something that only athletes do?

Again, I have no idea whose story is correct but if you hit someone all bets are off. Does that mean that if the football player was hit first that his friends are entitiled to jump in? It depends on the situation. The article said it was a bar fight, that leads me to believe that there were other participants other than the football players, I don't envision them randomly punching innoncent bystanders mining their own business.

Have I seen athletes behave like A-holes? I Sure have, but I have also seen average days Joe's spout off at the mouth and pick a fight and then become totally surprised when they get their arse kicked. My point is, we don't have enough information to assume who is at fault.

I normally agree with your takes Sportsfan, and agree with your big picture point that athletes can be a target simply because they're athletes. I also agree that its not unusual for guys to get beer muscles which can lead to a smaller guy attacking a big guy (I've seen plenty of small guys kick the crap out of big guys too). That said, this particular instance seems to be a bad one to use as a potential example. Reading the article a couple of things jump out immediately.

1. The AD at Tennessee (not a school known for its tough standards- see Cup, Fulmer) already kicked one player involved off the team and suspended two others. Given UT's history with problem athletes, it would be surprising if there wasn't more than just smoke here.

2. Normally a case of a guy defending himself ends when his attacker is subdued. In this case the players in question continued attacking an innocent guy trying to break up the fight per the bar owner, who by the way admits giving free cover to UT players. From the article:

"Robert Capouellez was the off-duty police officer knocked unconscious outside the bar while trying to help break up the brawl, according to police. Capouellez, who was a customer at the bar that night and wearing civilian clothes, suffered a head wound and had been in the hospital since early Friday. He was released Monday night.

Allen Morton, the owner of Bar Knoxville, said he wasn't outside in time to see Capouellez get hit. But he said he did see one of the football players kick at him after he was already lying on the ground unconscious."


and also: "Morton said he didn't necessarily see what initiated the fight but emphasized that he saw six or seven football players beating and kicking Russell while he was on the ground."

further: "I told the police the same thing, that there were six or seven big guys hitting and punching [Russell] while he was defenseless on the ground," Morton said. "It's sad that something like that would happen. Some of the players were grabbing bar stools and going after him, but I was able to grab a few out of their hands."

Again, this is coming from a bar owner who fully admits a bias towards UT athletes by letting them in without paying cover. Regardless of whether its for personal or financial reasons, the owner has an interest in covering for the players. He is not doing so. When you have 6 or more guys attacking a single guy and kicking him while down and attacking another unconscious victim in the same way, I think the self-defense argument gets pretty tough to back up.

3. The only independent witness cited in the article saw things differently: "Paige Whaley, a student at a nearby community college, was also at the bar when the fight occurred and said she was within a few feet of where Russell and Hughes bumped into each other.

"I got pushed when it all happened and turned around and there were seven guys on top of [Russell] before you knew it," Whaley said. "They were beating the living crap out of him. I saw one come up and kick him in the head. It was ridiculous."

Asked if there was any way that Russell might have initiated the whole thing, Whaley said, "I'm sure that's what UT is saying, but there's no way. That guy [Hughes] was huge. Why would [Russell] go after him? It was scary to see that many big guys on top of one.""


4. Russell had no signs of alcohol in his system per the toxicology report cited in the article. The to me also mitigates the likelihood that he was buzzed up and looking for a chance to show his friends how tough he was.

Given the above, there seems to be more smoke coming from the players direction than Russell's. While no one is directly quoted as saying that Hughes started the fight, the comments above could certainly lead a reasonable person to cast suspicion for this on the players. I find it more likely that the case was that Russell accidentally ran into Hughes while walking by (which Russell acknowledged), words got exchanged and all hell broke loose. This just doesn't seem to be a case where the athletes were being targeted.
 



I have seen a 115lb woman slap a 300lb football player (no, not a gopher), anything is possible. I have no idea what happened in this case but I know first hand it is not unusal for nonathletes to attack athletes. They figure the athlete won't fight back because they have more to lose (which should be the case) and they get to look big in front of their friends.

Did anybody else take note that without seeing who hit whom first the bar owner stated that Russel did not hit Huges first because Hughes was big. Ooookay?

Personally I'n not an advacate for violence, people should respect one another.....but if you hit someone regardless of what sex you are or how small in comparison to the other person you are, you should expect to get hit back. If it's harder or worse than the hit you gave the other person? Sucks being you.

Alright, like I said before 90% of the time we're on the same page, but this... really? I grew up with a good friend who went on to become a college athlete (wrestler) at a successful D2 program. While the comments you make above happen, I can attest that at least in my friends case, he and his teammates were responsible more often than not. The prevailing attitude was one of "don't you know who I am? I am a big man on campus, I don't take crap from some regular student". How do I know, I was around for a few of them when I went to party at his school and did nothing (which today @ 40 I'm not too proud of) to stop it. On the size deal, he wrestled just over and below the 145 lbs mark for his career and loved going after big guys who trash talked him (I don't think he lost a fight either) so I get that that happens too. Lastly, c'mon, its never OK to hit a girl. Never.

Peace.
 

I normally agree with your takes Sportsfan, and agree with your big picture point that athletes can be a target simply because they're athletes. I also agree that its not unusual for guys to get beer muscles which can lead to a smaller guy attacking a big guy (I've seen plenty of small guys kick the crap out of big guys too). That said, this particular instance seems to be a bad one to use as a potential example. Reading the article a couple of things jump out immediately.

1. The AD at Tennessee (not a school known for its tough standards- see Cup, Fulmer) already kicked one player involved off the team and suspended two others. Given UT's history with problem athletes, it would be surprising if there wasn't more than just smoke here.

2. Normally a case of a guy defending himself ends when his attacker is subdued. In this case the players in question continued attacking an innocent guy trying to break up the fight per the bar owner, who by the way

admits giving free cover to UT players. From the article:

"Robert Capouellez was the off-duty police officer knocked unconscious outside the bar while trying to help break up the brawl, according to police. Capouellez, who was a customer at the bar that night and wearing civilian clothes, suffered a head wound and had been in the hospital since early Friday. He was released Monday night.

Allen Morton, the owner of Bar Knoxville, said he wasn't outside in time to see Capouellez get hit. But he said he did see one of the football players kick at him after he was already lying on the ground unconscious."


and also: "Morton said he didn't necessarily see what initiated the fight but emphasized that he saw six or seven football players beating and kicking Russell while he was on the ground."

further: "I told the police the same thing, that there were six or seven big guys hitting and punching [Russell] while he was defenseless on the ground," Morton said. "It's sad that something like that would happen. Some of the players were grabbing bar stools and going after him, but I was able to grab a few out of their hands."

Again, this is coming from a bar owner who fully admits a bias towards UT athletes by letting them in without paying cover. Regardless of whether its for personal or financial reasons, the owner has an interest in covering for the players. He is not doing so. When you have 6 or more guys attacking a single guy and kicking him while down and attacking another unconscious victim in the same way, I think the self-defense argument gets pretty tough to back up.

3. The only independent witness cited in the article saw things differently: "Paige Whaley, a student at a nearby community college, was also at the bar when the fight occurred and said she was within a few feet of where Russell and Hughes bumped into each other.

"I got pushed when it all happened and turned around and there were seven guys on top of [Russell] before you knew it," Whaley said. "They were beating the living crap out of him. I saw one come up and kick him in the head. It was ridiculous."

Asked if there was any way that Russell might have initiated the whole thing, Whaley said, "I'm sure that's what UT is saying, but there's no way. That guy [Hughes] was huge. Why would [Russell] go after him? It was scary to see that many big guys on top of one.""


4. Russell had no signs of alcohol in his system per the toxicology report cited in the article. The to me also mitigates the likelihood that he was buzzed up and looking for a chance to show his friends how tough he was.

Given the above, there seems to be more smoke coming from the players direction than Russell's. While no one is directly quoted as saying that Hughes started the fight, the comments above could certainly lead a reasonable person to cast suspicion for this on the players. I find it more likely that the case was that Russell accidentally ran into Hughes while walking by (which Russell acknowledged), words got exchanged and all hell broke loose. This just doesn't seem to be a case where the athletes were being targeted.

None of the folks quoted claim to have seen what sparked the incident. They only saw what happened as a result of the incident. They are basing their opinion based on the brutality of what they saw. Like you and I, they don't have enough information. They did not see what happened that led too the alteration.
 

Alright, like I said before 90% of the time we're on the same page, but this... really? I grew up with a good friend who went on to become a college athlete (wrestler) at a successful D2 program. While the comments you make above happen, I can attest that at least in my friends case, he and his teammates were responsible more often than not. The prevailing attitude was one of "don't you know who I am? I am a big man on campus, I don't take crap from some regular student". How do I know, I was around for a few of them when I went to party at his school and did nothing (which today @ 40 I'm not too proud of) to stop it. On the size deal, he wrestled just over and below the 145 lbs mark for his career and loved going after big guys who trash talked him (I don't think he lost a fight either) so I get that that happens too. Lastly, c'mon, its never OK to hit a girl. Never.

Peace.

Don't be such a sexist (lol), as a rule of thumb you are correct but never? Without being all politicaly correct nobody can ever say its never okay to hit a "girl".

A few years ago I was on flight with my family coming from Puerto rico, unbeknownst to me my 4 year old son was kicking the back of the women chair in front of us. He had his meal tray down with his toys on top and was kicking her underneath the tray. Without ever saying anything to either me or my wife in anger she bounced back against her seat. The edge of the tray hit my son in the upper chest. The only reason I did not kick her ass until I needed a new pair of shoes was because I not want my kids to see dear old dad hauled off in handcuffs. In principle however I agree with you.
 

People who get all upset over kids on airplanes have forgotten that they were once kids themselves. If you have a problem with a kid kicking your seat, talk to the parents, or talk to a flight attendant.

If someone thinks that the appropriate response is to hit my kid, I'd be tempted to respond with fava beans and a nice chianti...
 




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