Enjoying Gopher Basketball

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Bad Gopher said:
The other humiliating thing is seeing the former Gopher volleyball player in the stands decked out in Badger gear cheering her son playing for our rival. (Or, for that matter, seeing Darrell Thompson at Williams Arena in the cream and crimson cheering Race trying to beat the Gophers.) I know this happens to every school from now to then, but what the Badgers are doing in this state...I have never seen anything like it anywhere anytime.
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It began with Glen Mason flying the W at his house. Ridiculous.
 


Gophers7633 said:
I'd say if you don't make the ncaa tournament or NIT, you're effectively a bad basketball team(100 combined teams). Just because there are 250+ bad teams, doesn't make team 100 good. The B1G is down, it just is what it is. It's not like it matters anyway, we aren't doing anything worth a damn this year anyway.
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Yes, there are 100 spaces in the two tournaments combined but they will not all go to top 100 teams. There should be about a dozen, give or take, automatic qualifiers to the NCAA tournament who are not going to be ranked within the top 100; they will displace an equivalent amount of teams from the NCAA tournament and into the NIT. So, roughly, a team should qualify for the NIT (supposedly selected purely on NET this season) if it falls within the top 88 or so.

I still don't agree with your "bad" classification and I didn't say that a top 100 team was necessarily "good" (you keep switching words); only that they can't be considered "bad." Writing off the bottom 250 teams seems absurd when a fair number of those teams manage to beat higher rated teams every year and usually on the road or at neutral sites.
 


Bad Gopher said:
The other humiliating thing is seeing the former Gopher volleyball player in the stands decked out in Badger gear cheering her son playing for our rival. (Or, for that matter, seeing Darrell Thompson at Williams Arena in the cream and crimson cheering Race trying to beat the Gophers.) I know this happens to every school from now to then, but what the Badgers are doing in this state...I have never seen anything like it anywhere anytime.
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It is not humiliating when the kid of a former U of M athlete chooses to go to another school and it certainly shouldn't be shocking to see that kids parents supporting them by wearing gear associated with the school their child plays for.

I guarantee this goes on all over the country. Don't get me wrong, I wish all families were like the Barbers but that isn't realistic to expect that.
 


MNVCGUY said:
It is not humiliating when the kid of a former U of M athlete chooses to go to another school and it certainly shouldn't be shocking to see that kids parents supporting them by wearing gear associated with the school their child plays for.

I guarantee this goes on all over the country. Don't get me wrong, I wish all families were like the Barbers but that isn't realistic to expect that.
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It's exceptionally humiliating.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
His daughter chose UW while he was coach. Ok that is totally fine but flying a flag while the HC. We had a vp state our products weren’t industry leading - he was gone in a month.
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OK, that sort of rings a bell. I'll give a guy a pass to fly the colors on the day of the grad open house, but then you have to burn the thing.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
Yes, there are 100 spaces in the two tournaments combined but they will not all go to top 100 teams. There should be about a dozen, give or take, automatic qualifiers to the NCAA tournament who are not going to be ranked within the top 100; they will displace an equivalent amount of teams from the NCAA tournament and into the NIT. So, roughly, a team should qualify for the NIT (supposedly selected purely on NET this season) if it falls within the top 88 or so.

I still don't agree with your "bad" classification and I didn't say that a top 100 team was necessarily "good" (you keep switching words); only that they can't be considered "bad." Writing off the bottom 250 teams seems absurd when a fair number of those teams manage to beat higher rated teams every year and usually on the road or at neutral sites.
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You should just take the L and move on - there are more bad teams this year in the league. Your continual spinning to try to satisfy your need to always be right is obvious. Sometimes, the other side is correct and you are not. This is one of those times.
 






formerlybis said:
You should just take the L and move on - there are more bad teams this year in the league. Your continual spinning to try to satisfy your need to always be right is obvious. Sometimes, the other side is correct and you are not. This is one of those times.
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Hes definitely twisting his melon alright.

I see his new logic is that top 100 teams and the leagues holding them cant be bad because theres teams like grambling state behind them. Incredible stuff.

One of the reasons I most want the Gophers to become relevant again is so that a large portion of the fanbase can actually learn basketball. We got people like this guy that is clearly so used to watching a losing product he has no actual grasp of reality.
 

SamSquatch said:
Those late game sequences were so classically depressing gophers basketball. It was completely predictable that we would find a way once again to lose in a situation like that and we did. I can’t agree that it’s fun to watch losses that are just reverberations of the marrow of this program - ineptitude when it matters.

Get some wins against T25 or at least rivals and we can have fun.
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You mean to tell me that you didn't get overly joyed about our powerful wins at home against the likes of:

FGU, Ball State, Maine, IUPUI, New Orleans, USC Upstate, & UTSA? I know we also beat Maryland (#66 KenPom) at Home, but they are going to be lower in the B10 this year, and same as Michigan (#80 KenPom) this year, we haven't beat anyone --> Nebraska is our best win so far, and we will see if that program can keep it up this year (#45 KenPom).
 



Gophers7633 said:
By this time last year, Wisconsin had already beaten 5 tournament teams, we've maybe beaten one. They were a 2 seed in the NIT, I doubt we'll even make it. We are pretty far behind what they were last year.
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I agree with what you said in response to the original commentor, which was crazy in comparing the current Gophers to last year's Badgers...and that the programs are essentially in the same positions.

Digging deeper...

Badgers have two good Sophomores (Storr who is predicted as a Big Ten 1st Teamer *as mentioned numerous times on the broadcast on Tuesday) and Essegian; these guys would compare to Cam Christie...I would take what Storr is right now as a Sophomore over the potential of Cam Christie as a Sophomore --> I believe most would. Do we really think Christie has shown us that he will be 1st Team All Big Ten next year?

Crowl, Hepburn, Klesmit (all Jrs) would be comparible to our Sophomores...who would you rather have? JOJ is hit or miss, Payne can be a monster within 1 foot of the hoop, but cannot hit a FT when it counts, Carrington is shooting worse from 3 than most of us posters would (17%), --> I think if you were giving the option to fast forward a year and take the current badger JRs listed above as-is, or the potential of the 3 gopher's listed above in 1 year, you take the badgers

Badgers have Wahl as a senior and I assume next year, even though Garcia is a JR, he will leave the program for a professional opportunity overseas, or another NCAA opportunity now that a federal court struck down the sitting out rule if you transfer multiple times (this helps Garcia)

Current Badger Freshman:
Blackwell (big ten freshman of the week) and Winter - versus Assuma --> I'd trade Assuma for those two Freshman

Coaches...can we even type this?

I think if you actually put this in writing, you start to see how far behind we are of the Badger program when it comes to starting talent. We may have some advantages on fringe player depth (7th -9th players), but they have the better pipeline with the younger studs, and main players.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
Yes, there are 100 spaces in the two tournaments combined but they will not all go to top 100 teams. There should be about a dozen, give or take, automatic qualifiers to the NCAA tournament who are not going to be ranked within the top 100; they will displace an equivalent amount of teams from the NCAA tournament and into the NIT. So, roughly, a team should qualify for the NIT (supposedly selected purely on NET this season) if it falls within the top 88 or so.

I still don't agree with your "bad" classification and I didn't say that a top 100 team was necessarily "good" (you keep switching words); only that they can't be considered "bad." Writing off the bottom 250 teams seems absurd when a fair number of those teams manage to beat higher rated teams every year and usually on the road or at neutral sites.
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Then we'll never agree. I think Rutgers, Michigan, IU and Missouri are all bad teams. And they're all rated within like 30 spots of each other. Yes, they can beat a, what I would consider good team, but there's more data than just one singular piece.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
No, he is not right.

Yes, conference ratings are a composite of ALL teams in that conference. So, if a conference is rated #2, you can't say that it is "bad." Maybe the conference isn't so great but saying it's "bad" is simply wrong because that would mean that at least every conference ranking below it must be bad. If that were the case, then college basketball must be "bad."

There is only one conference team ranking below 100 on NET (PSU) and they're not far below 100. A top 100 team isn't "bad" given that the team is ranked in the top 28% of D1 teams. Rankings are always in comparison to objects in the sample, not some subjective ideal.
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When it comes to P6 conferences, who would you take (showing top 5 and bottom 3 of each conference): *KenPom Rankings*

ACC:
TOP: UNC 6, Duke 13,Clemson 33,Wake 41,Virginia Tech 60 BOTTOM: Louisville 195, Notre Dame 160, Georgia Tech 128

B10:
TOP: Purdue 2, Illinois 10, Badgers 11, MSU 16, Nebraska 45 BOTTOM: Penn State 107, Rutgers 95, Indiana 93

B12:
TOP: BYU 9, Iowa State 12, Baylor 14, Kansas 18, TCU 25 BOTTOM: West Virginia 136, Oklahoma State 117, UCF 69

BE:
TOP: UCONN 7, Creighton 15, Marquette 17, St John's 31, Xavier 34 BOTTOM: DePaul 280, Georgetown 182, Seton Hall 59

Pac 12:
TOP: Arizona 3, Colorado 21, Utah 30 Washington State 47, Oregon 53 BOTTOM: Oregon State 170, Californina 121, UCLA 106

SEC:
TOP: Tennessee 4, Auburn 5, Alabama 8, Kentucky 20, Florida 35 BOTTOM: Vandy 187, Missouri 112, Arkansas 105


I think one could make a strong arguments on the following:
1) The BE is the best overall conference from top to bottom. The the exception of two outliers, Georgetown and DePaul, the 3rd worst team in the conference, Seton Hall, has a KenPom of 59 still. 9 out of their 11 conference teams are in the top 60, with 7 being in the top 50.

2) The ACC is the worst P6 basketball conference this year in terms of top level teams, at this point in the season.

3) In terms of top level teams, it should go: SEC, Big 12, BE, then the B10. In terms of overall, BE is best, then B12, then SEC, then B10...then P12 and ACC.

I don't think a one can stand on a hill for the B10.
 
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TwistingMyMelon said:
Those are fair points but #2 is still #2 and if #2 is bad, then every conference below that must be bad. We're not talking about subsets of conferences. There will be fewer Big Ten teams in the NCAA tournament this season but I would say that what the league mostly demonstrated in those 9 bid years was that it didn't deserve 9 bids.
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Hopefully Purdue doesn't Purdue in the NCAA tournament....
 



What I'm not enjoying is watching Cam Christie go from what looked like a certain conference freshman of the year candidate to someone who has his moments but has fallen back dramatically from that early promise.
 

Bad Gopher said:
What I'm not enjoying is watching Cam Christie go from what looked like a certain conference freshman of the year candidate to someone who has his moments but has fallen back dramatically from that early promise.
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Pretty common for a true freshman to have lots of ups and downs in his first year.
 

Bad Gopher said:
What I'm not enjoying is watching Cam Christie go from what looked like a certain conference freshman of the year candidate to someone who has his moments but has fallen back dramatically from that early promise.
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He has been down a bit relative to his start, but he has been impressive for a freshman and Ben's best recruit so far. I used to be most interested in seeing Payne's development, but now Christie easily has the most potential on the team. If we run back the current squad next season he may be our best player. Trying to find something to be optimistic about lol
 


GopherBlood777 said:
He has been down a bit relative to his start, but he has been impressive for a freshman and Ben's best recruit so far. I used to be most interested in seeing Payne's development, but now Christie easily has the most potential on the team. If we run back the current squad next season he may be our best player. Trying to find something to be optimistic about lol
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PP needs to develop a mid range shot.
 


GopherBlood777 said:
He has been down a bit relative to his start, but he has been impressive for a freshman and Ben's best recruit so far. I used to be most interested in seeing Payne's development, but now Christie easily has the most potential on the team. If we run back the current squad next season he may be our best player. Trying to find something to be optimistic about lol
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I'd put the odds of Christie being a Gopher next season at roughly equal to TayTay dropping the KC tight end for me.
 


Bad Gopher said:
What I'm not enjoying is watching Cam Christie go from what looked like a certain conference freshman of the year candidate to someone who has his moments but has fallen back dramatically from that early promise.
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As we have played bigger and better teams his lack of a big ten body has hurt him, especially when he plays the three. He’s not the only one we are underweight at many positions. Kids fall in love with the weights this summer!
 



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