End of year 4 (3)

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BarnBurner said:
I will go on record for the following:

1. Another year for Fleck? Of course.

2. Would like Fleck to sign more top MN kids

3. Would like Fleck to beat Iowa and Wisconsin regularly.

4. Think Fleck needs to stop puckering when faced with tough decisions on the field, later in games.
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Good summary here.
 

BarnBurner said:
Being conservative at the right time is great.

Being conservative at the wrong time isn't.
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Do you feel 100% certain that you know exactly when the right time for each scenario occurs, in advance?

If you do, you need to find a way to communicate it to the staff. I know that's a tall order, but clairvoyance is a rare, amazing gift, and it shouldn't be wasted on an anonymous fan board.
 

P.J. Fleck is The David Lee Roth of coaching. Great front man and showman but how talented is he really at straight up coaching coaching?
 

Stan said:
What a dumb post. No one thinks he should be fired. You posted about it. This is why you suck.
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Maybe a better way to ask his original question would be:

Fleck is a huge believer in a run-first, eat the clock, dominate time of possession type of offense. He's almost certain to keep doing those things, for as long as he's here.

Are you okay with that, or are you going to complain about it after every game?
 

RememberMurray said:
Do you feel 100% certain that you know exactly when the right time for each scenario occurs, in advance?

If you do, you need to find a way to communicate it to the staff. I know that's a tall order, but clairvoyance is a rare, amazing gift, and it shouldn't be wasted on an anonymous fan board.
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Can I ask your thoughts on how the 4th quarter at Maryland went. This was a game where the defense could not stop the Maryland offense the entire game. The offense did a great job of keeping them in the game and took the lead. The gophers ran 11 plays for 22 yards in the 4th quarter with 6 of those plays being runs. That led to the defense being on the field basically the entire 4th quarter and giving up a 17 point lead.
That was an example of conservative play calling leading to a lose.
 


RememberMurray said:
Maybe a better way to ask his original question would be:

Fleck is a huge believer in a run-first, eat the clock, dominate time of possession type of offense. He's almost certain to keep doing those things, for as long as he's here.

Are you okay with that, or are you going to complain about it after every game?
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It’s a hell of a game plan when you can play defense. When offense is you main weapon then you better adjust your system to what makes you team better.
 

U2Gopher said:
You don’t take a program like Minnesota’s, hire a coach, and then expect to win the west division and the Big10 every year after just 3-4 seasons. Only way you do that is if you hire Saben. It will take Fleck, or almost anyone else, 6-8 years minimum to get this program to the point where it is at Wisconsin and Iowa’s level. In the meantime, you enjoy the occasional upset of a highly ranked team or the 11 win season like last year. But we are not at the 10-11 win level EVERY year just yet. We all have to be patient. We need to be in this for the long haul like Iowa with Frye and Wisconsin with the Alvarez coaching chain. We are getting better. The talent is obviously getting better. Please be patient folks. We are headed in the right direction.
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What this guy said
 

Some guy said:
True, and last year without bateman and Morgan and t Johnson we would’ve been worse.

In fact, if you take the best players off of any gophers team the year probably results in a disaster...
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This has been deep thoughts with Some guy.
 

IrishGoph55 said:
P.J. Fleck is The David Lee Roth of coaching. Great front man and showman but how talented is he really at straight up coaching coaching?
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Well he is the most successful coach at MN in my lifetime and it isn’t close IMO
 



It's not a black-and-white "Fire the Coach" vs "Keep the Coach" argument.

Nobody in their right mind is calling for the Coach to be fired.

But - it is entirely fair to suggest that the coach evaluate all aspects of the program and look for areas that can be improved.

the program is not perfect. the coach is not perfect. you can keep the coach and also want to see some changes made that will help the team do better.

that does not mean the coach should jettison his philosophy. but you can always tweak tendencies or come up with new wrinkles.
 

RememberMurray said:
Maybe a better way to ask his original question would be:

Fleck is a huge believer in a run-first, eat the clock, dominate time of possession type of offense. He's almost certain to keep doing those things, for as long as he's here.

Are you okay with that, or are you going to complain about it after every game?
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Yeah.
Or, if you really have a problem with the philosophy...do you want to change philosophy and thus the coach?
 

short ornery norwegian said:
It's not a black-and-white "Fire the Coach" vs "Keep the Coach" argument.

Nobody in their right mind is calling for the Coach to be fired.

But - it is entirely fair to suggest that the coach evaluate all aspects of the program and look for areas that can be improved.

the program is not perfect. the coach is not perfect. you can keep the coach and also want to see some changes made that will help the team do better.

that does not mean the coach should jettison his philosophy. but you can always tweak tendencies or come up with new wrinkles.
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That’s definitely true. Much of the complaining has to do with things that would require him jettisoning his philosophy though. This thread is meant for those people. If you want to become a throw it around the yard 50% on first down and 50+ on second down, you’re going to need a new head coach.

this thread may not be meant for you
 

Some guy said:
Yeah.
Or, if you really have a problem with the philosophy...do you want to change philosophy and thus the coach?
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So Wisconsin has the best run defense in the big ten. Should you not try to adjust your game plan to try and overcome that or do you just hope your running game works well enough to win. I thought coaches always made adjustments to game plans after scouting their opponents and finding out their weaknesses.
 



Some guy said:
That’s definitely true. Much of the complaining has to do with things that would require him jettisoning his philosophy though. This thread is meant for those people. If you want to become a throw it around the yard 50% on first down and 50+ on second down, you’re going to need a new head coach.

this thread may not be meant for you
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Yup.

The issue really isn't whether or not Fleck is "perfect", or whether or not he "needs to evaluate" certain things.

What the original poster was asking, and the real question is:

Considering Fleck's overall philosophy, which is not likely to change, are you as a Gopher fan okay with Fleck's outlook?

As far as re-evaluating his entire run-first, eat the clock, control the ball approach, I just don't see that happening. If you hate it, you're going to be miserable as a fan.

And I'd like to gently remind people that no one was questioning his philosophy or approach after the Gophers went 11-2 last year, with the same philosophy and the same approach.
 
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From the Parkinglot said:
So Wisconsin has the best run defense in the big ten. Should you not try to adjust your game plan to try and overcome that or do you just hope your running game works well enough to win. I thought coaches always made adjustments to game plans after scouting their opponents and finding out their weaknesses.
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we called 29 passes and 33 runs
It wasn’t a perfect game plan.


if you want that to be 40 passes and 20 runs...you’re going to need a new coach.
 

Some guy said:
That’s definitely true. Much of the complaining has to do with things that would require him jettisoning his philosophy though. This thread is meant for those people. If you want to become a throw it around the yard 50% on first down and 50+ on second down, you’re going to need a new head coach.

this thread may not be meant for you
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I think literally zero people are saying that. As referenced above, the Maryland game could have been won with a couple of different choices made in the 4th quarter. Nobody is calling for a Mike Leach air raid offense, which is basically what you’re insinuating. Play to win in the fourth quarter versus play not to lose. That’s all. I have all the faith in PJ and that’s he’ll change his best. This thread may win the “most incendiary and baseless” post of the year award.
 

Some guy said:
we called 29 passes and 33 runs
It wasn’t a perfect game plan.


if you want that to be 40 passes and 20 runs...you’re going to need a new coach.
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defensive coordinator changed the game plan from 2019 to 2020. You make adjustments to your game plan to help you win the game. Slamming Mo into the teeth of the defense on first down 21 times yesterday didn’t seem like the best strategy.
B6095EB2-3B42-482C-B51C-76710407F782.png
 

From the Parkinglot said:
defensive coordinator changed the game plan from 2019 to 2020. You make adjustments to your game plan to help you win the game. Slamming Mo into the teeth of the defense on first down 21 times yesterday didn’t seem like the best strategy.
View attachment 10928
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Mo had 151 yards and averaged 5.8 yards per carry.
 

forever a gopher said:
I think literally zero people are saying that. As referenced above, the Maryland game could have been won with a couple of different choices made in the 4th quarter. Nobody is calling for a Mike Leach air raid offense, which is basically what you’re insinuating. Play to win in the fourth quarter versus play not to lose. That’s all. I have all the faith in PJ and that’s he’ll change his best. This thread may win the “most incendiary and baseless” post of the year award.
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That’s what I don’t get. If you have an elite defense and special teams by all means play ball control offense and limit the other teams ability with the ball. The Maryland game gets me so upset cause it was emcees evident that the defense was not going to stop them consistently so you needed to keep scoring. The play calling in the 4th quarter was just so conservative and was really playing to lose not to win.

northwestern was nothing special this year but they played darn good defense so they could control the ball and trust the game was not going to be a track meet.
 

From the Parkinglot said:
defensive coordinator changed the game plan from 2019 to 2020. You make adjustments to your game plan to help you win the game. Slamming Mo into the teeth of the defense on first down 21 times yesterday didn’t seem like the best strategy.
View attachment 10928
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I am going to go ahead and disagree with Ryan Burns on his use of the word “scheme” and I am also going to tell you that nothing you just posted changes the fact that we aren’t going to be a 60-70% passing team ever under fleck.

With every coach you’re going to have to take the good with the bad. Is running the ball 50% of the time yesterday enough for you to give up on our coach and want to move on? If it isn’t, you can quit harping about passing more. Because as long as fleck is the coach we are going to run inside zone until the cows come home.

that was true yesterday, that was true during 11-2, that was true during 5-7 in “year 0”
 

RememberMurray said:
Do you feel 100% certain that you know exactly when the right time for each scenario occurs, in advance?

If you do, you need to find a way to communicate it to the staff. I know that's a tall order, but clairvoyance is a rare, amazing gift, and it shouldn't be wasted on an anonymous fan board.
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No. Pj is paid, handsomely, to do so.
Idiot.
 

From the Parkinglot said:
That’s what I don’t get. If you have an elite defense and special teams by all means play ball control offense and limit the other teams ability with the ball. The Maryland game gets me so upset cause it was emcees evident that the defense was not going to stop them consistently so you needed to keep scoring. The play calling in the 4th quarter was just so conservative and was really playing to lose not to win.

northwestern was nothing special this year but they played darn good defense so they could control the ball and trust the game was not going to be a track meet.
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I broke down the Maryland game in a thread a few weeks back. The first and second down play calling wasn’t different in the 4th quarter than it was in the 1-3rd quarter whether you want that to be true or not.

It didn’t work obviously...and maybe they should’ve done something different. But they didn’t go into a shell. They played the whole game, season, fleck tenure, etc in a shell
 


I’d like a new OC. Not a huge fan of what we ran this year honestly. Simon would be a better choice in my opinion
 

Going into the Wisconsin game, the Gophers were pretty heavy underdogs in Vegas. I saw more than a few people here who seemed to feel that line was about right. Nobody that I can recall thought the line was outrageous.

If you had been given the option, before the game, of taking Wisconsin into overtime, on their field, and then letting it play out from there... would you have been happy with that option? Would you have taken it?
 
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From the Parkinglot said:
That’s great did they win. He also had 207 yards against Maryland and 141 against Iowa. He’s great no question about that. The Wisconsin guy had 154 yards and averaged 6.4 yards.
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And to your actual point: how many of Mo’s yards were on first down runs? I don’t know the answer.
 


UpAndUnder43 said:
I’d like a new OC. Not a huge fan of what we ran this year honestly. Simon would be a better choice in my opinion
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Simon would be a better choice.

Some would say he earned the job after the Auburn bowl win.

Don’t think there’s any chance that a change will be made unless we lose several games in 2021.

So we either win in spite of Sanford, and the defect stays, or Fleck makes a change after a Robb Smith like performance.
 

RememberMurray said:
"Why did they call those plays that didn't work? Why, oh why, didn't they call different plays?!?!"
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No play caller is ever in the wrong. No criticism of play calling is possible.

Every play is designed to work. It can only ever not work if the players choose to fail.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
I’d like a new OC. Not a huge fan of what we ran this year honestly. Simon would be a better choice in my opinion
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I didn’t really like what we did. But I’m guessing if fleck didn’t trust Simon enough to hire him, there was a reason

clear to me though that Morgan was uncomfortable in the offense all year. Hopefully that changes next year
 

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