Doogie tweet on Sumlin

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GopherFB said:
I would call the shed incident a character issue. I would also call his fighting with the AD/President and filling a law suit a character issue.


It may not make him a bad or immoral person but from the hiring AD's PoV these are big concerns.
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The new American mindset: all lawsuits are meritless and show poor character in an individual. :cool02: Hire henchmen and dictators to rid ourselves of people interested in APPLYING THE LAW. Pitchforks anyone?
 

Well, obviously I am a Sumlin fan since I was one of the first to mention his name on this board BEFORE Brewster was canned.

But one thing I think that is important to the Gopher football program is to build a walk on program. I think this was one of Brewster's downfalls. There is considerable talent in MN that may not be obvious FBS quality but should be recruited heavily to walk on, please see Nebraska's walk on program. Since Sumlin was a walk on himself at Purdue and ended up being a leading tackler in the history of that program, I somehow have a feeling that he could instill the desire in MN high school athletes to stay home and play for the states' premier institution.
 

Plinnius said:
It wouldn't have anything to do with coaching. It would just be a testament to how fungible quarterbacks are in the Air Raid.
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Hmmm so rallying your team after it lost its most important player the 3rd game of the season, who just so happened to be your Senior Heisman hopeful qb has nothing to do with coaching? Got it.

Interestingly in the Cougars 2 wins since Keenum went down they have ran the ball 45 and 44 times respectively which accumulated for 50% and 41% of their total Offensive output. Sounds to me like a coach who "adapts" to his environment...
 

Sumtimegophs said:
Well, obviously I am a Sumlin fan since I was one of the first to mention his name on this board BEFORE Brewster was canned.

But one thing I think that is important to the Gopher football program is to build a walk on program. I think this was one of Brewster's downfalls. There is considerable talent in MN that may not be obvious FBS quality but should be recruited heavily to walk on, please see Nebraska's walk on program. Since Sumlin was a walk on himself at Purdue and ended up being a leading tackler in the history of that program, I somehow have a feeling that he could instill the desire in MN high school athletes to stay home and play for the states' premier institution.
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A walk on program is nice, but in Minnesota it will be difficult to establish one with how well established the recruiting emphasis of NDSU, SDSU, UND, USD, and all the in-state DII programs are. It is hard to fault a kid who turns down a walk on opportunity for a full ride.
 

Oneoldgopher said:
The new American mindset: all lawsuits are meritless and show poor character in an individual. :cool02: Hire henchmen and dictators to rid ourselves of people interested in APPLYING THE LAW. Pitchforks anyone?
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I didn't say that his lawsuit was meritless or that it means he has poor character.

But you are a fool if you don't think it matter so the AD.

Also, I think we could do without a large portion of the Attourneys in this country. Too many ambulance chasers and bogus class action lawsuits. The majority of lawyers are more interested in twisting the law to make some money than applying it in the intended manor.
 


ruralgopher said:
A walk on program is nice, but in Minnesota it will be difficult to establish one with how well established the recruiting emphasis of NDSU, SDSU, UND, USD, and all the in-state DII programs are. It is hard to fault a kid who turns down a walk on opportunity for a full ride.
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Trying not to highjack this, but I was contemplating this fact yesterday.
I think what is needed is a strong push to get local fringe guys to walk on, but also to give out a handful of schollies to local developmental types.

Brewster really was put in a bad spot by the severe lack of speed and experienced depth this team had when he took over, his reliance on JUCOs and high risk/high reward outstate guys in 07 was a major problem that gave him a chance in 08/09 to win, but really hamstrung him this year when the JUCOs left and the high risk guys flopped.
Yes get all the walk ons you can, but if you are running out of options, don't be so fast to discount local kids that could fill roles, especially linebackers/run stuffing safeties/fullbacks/tight ends/O and D linemen/possesion WR's. There are plenty of these in state, most get offers from the dakota schools and take off, some walk on. I have to think at the very least, most of these types of recruits would end up sticking around and maybe developing into good special teamers or role players. Don't get a whole class of them, that's not what I'm saying, and don't sacrifice top outstate talent commits for them, but a handful of role playing types could have helped us out this year more than the lost JUCOs and guys like Whaley for example.
 

There were a number of things that handicapped Brewster from the outset in which he was not experienced enough to handle, including the loss of the backfield. He would have been better served if he would have retained at least Shaw (honestly) and if possible the RB coach. (No disrespect intended for the current one).

Anyway, the walk on program does not do that bad, even though a number of area colleges do offer scholies, IMO.
 

GopherFB said:
I didn't say that his lawsuit was meritless or that it means he has poor character.

But you are a fool if you don't think it matter so the AD.

Also, I think we could do without a large portion of the Attourneys in this country. Too many ambulance chasers and bogus class action lawsuits. The majority of lawyers are more interested in twisting the law to make some money than applying it in the intended manor.
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I hear this all the time. Show me the pursuation of evidence and the proponderance of the truth of your argument. Your argument, if you can call it that, shows no prima facie evidence, only the oft repeated platitude of "you are a fool", "ambulance chasers", and the like. No evidence was posted by you. So, let me ask the question that begs to be asked: what evidence do you have that there are too many lawyers and too many bogus class action lawsuits. I really admire that last one. Because that is one of the rarest of all case law. Very few lawyers are willing to take that on because of the enormous time and effort required to adminster the claim.

As for the AD and Leech's suit, well, it has nothing to do with the U. It is a private matter and does not foretell an adverse impact on the U in the future. It is speculative at best since you are not party to the evidence. See, it's the last part that gets me. You are willing to make a claim against a candidate that suggests he should not be considered simply because you don't like lawyers or lawsuits. In employment law, that falls under two areas. First, cultural noise and the second negative emphasis. Either way, in a court of law, it amounts to a form of applicant discrimination and would open the U to all kinds of really bad outcomes. I am no lawyer, but at least I don't react to them badly simply because it feels right.
 

Oneoldgopher said:
I hear this all the time. Show me the pursuation of evidence and the proponderance of the truth of your argument. Your argument, if you can call it that, shows no prima facie evidence, only the oft repeated platitude of "you are a fool", "ambulance chasers", and the like. No evidence was posted by you. So, let me ask the question that begs to be asked: what evidence do you have that there are too many lawyers and too many bogus class action lawsuits. I really admire that last one. Because that is one of the rarest of all case law. Very few lawyers are willing to take that on because of the enormous time and effort required to adminster the claim.

As for the AD and Leech's suit, well, it has nothing to do with the U. It is a private matter and does not foretell an adverse impact on the U in the future. It is speculative at best since you are not party to the evidence. See, it's the last part that gets me. You are willing to make a claim against a candidate that suggests he should not be considered simply because you don't like lawyers or lawsuits. In employment law, that falls under two areas. First, cultural noise and the second negative emphasis. Either way, in a court of law, it amounts to a form of applicant discrimination and would open the U to all kinds of really bad outcomes. I am no lawyer, but at least I don't react to them badly simply because it feels right.
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Fun Fact: There are 88,000 lawyers in Washington D.C.. By comparison, there are that many veterinarians in the entire U.S. I think may be a bit too many lawyers in this country. Also, what are there 3 or 4 law schools just in the metro area. I would have to say that is churning out a lot more lawyers than one may need. Just my opinion, but I do get thoroughly entertained by most of those lawyer commercials on during day time television when the Maury is on.
 



Easy to demonstrate the lawyer issue- ask the many lawyers who can't find work in their field or who are working for less than they put out for tuition. This demonstrates supply exceeds demand.

Class action lawsuits are easy for us to see- Ciresi runs for office off of his loot, and we all get little postcards asking us to join a class action suit for a faulty product or price issue. The consumer gets a 3 dollar coupon and Dewey, Cheatem and Howe gets 1/3 the cut which is a paltry 50 million bucks to protect us.
 

Kevin Sumlin would not bring immediate credibility and exposure to the University IMHO.

To me, he's definitely more of an up and coming coach. President Bruininks and Maturi have made it clear they want to get "another Tubby Smith."
 

stevedave23 said:
Kevin Sumlin would not bring immediate credibility and exposure to the University IMHO.

To me, he's definitely more of an up and coming coach. President Bruininks and Maturi have made it clear they want to get "another Tubby Smith."
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That "Another Tubby Smith" quote will come back to bite this program bad IMO.
We're more likely going to get a guy like Sumlin, Golden, Hoke, Calhoun than Bellotti or ??? that compares to the proven winning Tubby had on his record. Just who is Maturi expecting to bring in to meet that level of expectation? What a moron, keep your mouth shut and find us a good coach, that's it, a good coach that can win, I don't give a rip about finding the "next Tubby Smith of football".

For me Sumlin is sounding better and better, High powered O, 3-4 D, texas recruiting roots, young and energetic, but also proven and with a track record. I think he could win here.
 

Ole said:
That "Another Tubby Smith" quote will come back to bite this program bad IMO.
We're more likely going to get a guy like Sumlin, Golden, Hoke, Calhoun than Bellotti or ??? that compares to the proven winning Tubby had on his record. Just who is Maturi expecting to bring in to meet that level of expectation? What a moron, keep your mouth shut and find us a good coach, that's it, a good coach that can win, I don't give a rip about finding the "next Tubby Smith of football".

For me Sumlin is sounding better and better, High powered O, 3-4 D, texas recruiting roots, young and energetic, but also proven and with a track record. I think he could win here.
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I agree with you, as it's all about expectation management. Just like the "kill shot" hire, people used the hyperbole to prove a point and now Joel has given ammunition to columnists, critics and cynical fans if we don't hire a "Tubby Smith" type of coach. It really increased the expectations and it was a comment that wasn't needed.

Go Gophers!!
 



Ole-

I could not agree with you more. Joel needs to keep his mouth shut.

If we want to take the "next Tubby Smith" quote literally, the only candidate out there that matches that is Phil Fulmer. I know 95% of people would be against that. Fulmer is the only coach that we currently know is available who won a National Title (like Tubby), he comes from the SEC (Like Tubby), he had a consistent track record of winning, but his fan base had grown tired of him (like Tubby).

Are there any other candidates out there who have a National Title, long track record of winning who's fan bases are sick of them? Les Miles? NO THANKS. Richt would fit, except he does not have the National Title and it appears he is going nowhere.
 

Yeah, the whole "Tubby Smith" thing seems a bit strange to me. I am coming from a point of view where my top 2 favorites (Bellotti and Leach) are big names, but I don't really know how important that is. The only way for this program to have a sustained amount of financial success (fans, coverage, etc.) is if they win for awhile. The glitz and glamour of a sexy pick would wear off if we don't win. For that reason, the only criteria for our next head coach should be....can he build a program that wins consistantly? Throw out all that Tubby stuff, all the Minnesota connection stuff....we need to win.
 

stevedave23 said:
Kevin Sumlin would not bring immediate credibility and exposure to the University IMHO.

To me, he's definitely more of an up and coming coach. President Bruininks and Maturi have made it clear they want to get "another Tubby Smith."
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Sumlin is my #1 choice, but would agree that he would not bring immediate credibility to the casual Gopher fan. Reviving a program at Houston that was struggling to fill it's staduim to 50% capacity prior to his arrival, to one that now has sold out 4 consecutive home games suggests that he has the ability to capture a dormant audience.

It is all well and good to want to get "another Tubby Smith" but there has to be interest from the other end. I am all for approaching Patterson, Petersen, or any other big-name coach out there but am also realistic about what this program currently offers these coaches. I don't think the fanbase should be dissapointed if all these "marquee" names say no and the Gophers are lucky enough to land a young, bright mind like Sumlin.
 

Stan The Caddy said:
Are there any other candidates out there who have a National Title, long track record of winning who's fan bases are sick of them? Les Miles? NO THANKS. Richt would fit, except he does not have the National Title and it appears he is going nowhere.
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Coaches who fit at least two of the criteria:

Active:
Larry Coker
Pete Carroll
Dennis Erickson
Howard Schnellenberger

Theatre of the Absurd:
Bobby Bowden
Lloyd Carr
Gene Stallings
Don James
Bobby Ross
Bill McCartney
Jimmy Johnson
Lou Holtz
Barry Switzer
LaVell Edwards
Danny Ford
etc.
 

I dont like the Tubby hire comparison

either. Coaches that have had a national championship team or claim a national championship team are very few in college football. We all know Saban, Meyer, Carroll but Pinkel (Missouri 2007), Peterson (Boise State 2006) and Kyle Whittingham (Utah 2008) according to Wiki also claim part of the national championship for the above listed years. Of those three could Whittingham or Pinkel be possible, I don't think Peterson is but you never know I wouldn't have guessed Tubby either.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Coaches who fit at least two of the criteria:

Active:
Larry Coker
Pete Carroll
Dennis Erickson
Howard Schnellenberger

Theatre of the Absurd:
Bobby Bowden
Lloyd Carr
Gene Stallings
Don James
Bobby Ross
Bill McCartney
Jimmy Johnson
Lou Holtz
Barry Switzer
LaVell Edwards
Danny Ford
etc.
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None of the above would even merit consideration for a number of reasons. Another reason that using the "another Tubby Smith" was asinine by Maturi.

Thanks for the list of AARP members though...
 


National Championships for Boise in '06, Mizzou '07 & Utah '08? What the?

Seems like maybe those could have been National Coach of the Year honors for those gentlemen, but certainly not National Championships.
 

Speaking of Wittingham...I am surprised his name has not come up more on this board, I suppose it is Utah's pending move to the PAC 12 that keeps his name from coming up.
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_football_national_championships_in_NCAA_Division_I_FBS
Schools may not claim, my mispoken words, but according to this website theose three coaches do get credit form some polls. Just looking at it from the standpoint of how it could be spun when or if one of the three coaches are announced. Some people seem to be very tense!
Dpdoll68, are you angry at me for something, your very combative with me? I can't share the name of the #1 target, I just can't, believe me or not but you will be happy if he's hired.
 

Forget Leach, that's just not happening. He's not a Tubby Smith type hire anyhow. News flash....The average Gopher ticket buyer has never heard of Sumlin OR Leach. If you jarred the average fans memory they'd recall Leach from the Mason meltdown, that's about it. I'm not sold on the spread in Minnesota, I'm really now, but wtf I'll give it another try I guess with Sumlin.

EddieV (Who loves ya Eddie??!!) across the street tells the story (that others have confirmed) of the night before the Insight Bowl game where Leach got so liquored up in the VIP suite that he was bad mouthing all his bosses, was stumblin/mumblin drunk, started challenged people to fight & then didn't leave until 5-6am. Then he missed a bunch of promotional & photo op stuff the next day with a hangover & finally showed up 90 minutes late for his game prep. Maturi was in that suite that night & is aware of all the details of that next day. Leach will not be the coach here...ever.
 


Costa Rican Gopher said:
Forget Leach, that's just not happening. He's not a Tubby Smith type hire anyhow. News flash....The average Gopher ticket buyer has never heard of Sumlin OR Leach. If you jarred the average fans memory they'd recall Leach from the Mason meltdown, that's about it. I'm not sold on the spread in Minnesota, I'm really now, but wtf I'll give it another try I guess with Sumlin.
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Bingo, our general fanbase has no clue who a good hire would be outside of "name" guys. That's why you hear KFAN and uninformed fans bring up former vikings coaches, it's the only names they can think of that are recognized, ask a casual gopher fan on the street who he thinks the next coach will be Brady Hoke or Al Golden, watch their expression change to obliviousness, and laugh when they mention Mike Tice.
I do think a bright, young coach could work the fanbase up enough to get them excited, Sumlin would fit that bill. I've looked into him a bit, he seems like he has won with players he's recruited for the most part, besides Keenum. Since his top 2 QB's have gone down he's gone to a running attack more and more, they had 40 carries for ~160 in their most recent win. I would be happy to have Sumlin coach here.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
Forget Leach, that's just not happening. He's not a Tubby Smith type hire anyhow. News flash....The average Gopher ticket buyer has never heard of Sumlin OR Leach. If you jarred the average fans memory they'd recall Leach from the Mason meltdown, that's about it. I'm not sold on the spread in Minnesota, I'm really now, but wtf I'll give it another try I guess with Sumlin.

EddieV (Who loves ya Eddie??!!) across the street tells the story (that others have confirmed) of the night before the Insight Bowl game where Leach got so liquored up in the VIP suite that he was bad mouthing all his bosses, was stumblin/mumblin drunk, started challenged people to fight & then didn't leave until 5-6am. Then he missed a bunch of promotional & photo op stuff the next day with a hangover & finally showed up 90 minutes late for his game prep. Maturi was in that suite that night & is aware of all the details of that next day. Leach will not be the coach here...ever.
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Easy enough to believe. I remember reading an article about how Mason showed up for his press conference early in his suit and his smile plastered on and Leach showed up an hour late in his leather jacket. Too bad for Mase that it didn't make him look good enough by comparison to keep his job.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
EddieV (Who loves ya Eddie??!!) across the street tells the story (that others have confirmed) of the night before the Insight Bowl game where Leach got so liquored up in the VIP suite that he was bad mouthing all his bosses, was stumblin/mumblin drunk, started challenged people to fight & then didn't leave until 5-6am. Then he missed a bunch of promotional & photo op stuff the next day with a hangover & finally showed up 90 minutes late for his game prep.
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And they won.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
Forget Leach, that's just not happening. He's not a Tubby Smith type hire anyhow. News flash....The average Gopher ticket buyer has never heard of Sumlin OR Leach. If you jarred the average fans memory they'd recall Leach from the Mason meltdown, that's about it. I'm not sold on the spread in Minnesota, I'm really now, but wtf I'll give it another try I guess with Sumlin.

EddieV (Who loves ya Eddie??!!) across the street tells the story (that others have confirmed) of the night before the Insight Bowl game where Leach got so liquored up in the VIP suite that he was bad mouthing all his bosses, was stumblin/mumblin drunk, started challenged people to fight & then didn't leave until 5-6am. Then he missed a bunch of promotional & photo op stuff the next day with a hangover & finally showed up 90 minutes late for his game prep. Maturi was in that suite that night & is aware of all the details of that next day. Leach will not be the coach here...ever.
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If they haven't heard of Leach than they don't follow college football and don't watch ESPN. I agree about Sumlin but let's be honest Minnesota fans can't name more than five coaches outside the Big Ten.
 

glovedgopher said:
If they haven't heard of Leach than they don't follow college football and don't watch ESPN. I agree about Sumlin but let's be honest Minnesota fans can't name more than five coaches outside the Big Ten.
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The casual fan probably can't get half of the coaches in the Big 10. They still think Duffy Daugherty is at Michigan State.
 

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