Doogie: Blowout at Purdue puts Gophers among top laughingstocks

People love ripping on Doogie, maybe some deserved, but I fail to see where this article was that egregious. In a world where Jim Harbaugh has the San Francisco 49ers at 4-1 and beating the Buccaneers 48-3 with inferior talent, I am going to have a tough time believing that what the coaching staff has brought to the table is the best they can do. I have no problem with the Doogie comparing the situation at Michigan and Minnesota, because any intelligent Joe could realize he wasn't suggesting the Gophers should be on pace for 9 wins.
 

I liked this passage: Purdue lost its starting quarterback to a knee injury in August, barely beat Middle Tennessee State and lost at Rice. There's a reason why the Boilermakers have lost 14,000 season-ticket holders in the last four years. They have the same chance of being bowl-eligible as my seven-month-old son, Drewgie/Drew-Schnickens, does of changing his own diapers.

But I really don't see the comparison to the program Rich Rodriguez had and the one Brewster had. RichRod couldn't scheme a defense, but the offense scored points at will. Brewster couldn't build an offense or defense. Also, the programs were in much different shape when each coach took over. When RichRod came into Michigan, he took over a 9-4 Michigan team that beat Florida in the Citrus Bowl (Capitol One Bowl). Brewster took over the 6-7 Gophers, who had just lost to Texas Tech in the Insight Bowl.

So, should the Gophers have gotten beat 58-0? No. But even with the similarities in coaching changes, comparing Michigan and Minnesota is a bit of apples and oranges.
 

I liked this passage: Purdue lost its starting quarterback to a knee injury in August, barely beat Middle Tennessee State and lost at Rice. There's a reason why the Boilermakers have lost 14,000 season-ticket holders in the last four years. They have the same chance of being bowl-eligible as my seven-month-old son, Drewgie/Drew-Schnickens, does of changing his own diapers.

But I really don't see the comparison to the program Rich Rodriguez had and the one Brewster had. RichRod couldn't scheme a defense, but the offense scored points at will. Brewster couldn't build an offense or defense. Also, the programs were in much different shape when each coach took over. When RichRod came into Michigan, he took over a 9-4 Michigan team that beat Florida in the Citrus Bowl (Capitol One Bowl). Brewster took over the 6-7 Gophers, who had just lost to Texas Tech in the Insight Bowl.

So, should the Gophers have gotten beat 58-0? No. But even with the similarities in coaching changes, comparing Michigan and Minnesota is a bit of apples and oranges.
Maybe I am speaking for Doogie but frame it this way. With the situations having obvious differences, which maybe he should have done for some of the black and white thinkers, can you not say that Hoke has brought more to the table than Kill? I think at this point it's apparent if the situations were reversed Hoke would have had this team in a better postion than Kill at this point. The article seems especially poignant considering the caravan of intelligence paid Hoke a visit in San Diego.
 


I don't see that at all...and...I'm not a black and white thinker...

I'd say that with his staff that has been together for so long, Coach Kill could have waltzed into Michigan and figured out how to use the talent that was just waiting for someone to come in with a good plan in place and then just let ALL that talent take over. Beating Notre Dame the way they did was a huge boost for Michigan. Losing to NMSU and NDSU (after the loss to USC) in back to back weeks was a huge downer for the collection of players remaining at Minnesota. Having an experienced, play making qb at Michigan, created magic for the cornblues against the Fighting Irish in the final few minutes of a game they were losing. Having two totally inexperienced qb's with a less than effective offensive line (same problem that was present for the brewball years and was never solved) having a very weak running game and a less than fearsome receiving corps didn't help either.

IF good coaches have material to work with...they will improve that team. IF good coaches have very little to work with...they call it a total rebuilding job. There is a HUGE difference. I think you are trying to look at this in too much of a black and white style of thought goldengophers...

; 0 )

PS: I haven't seen enough of prexy k to "trust" in him at this point in time...
 


Issue w/ Rivals rankings is the influence coaches have to get said rankings switched. But agree, looking at the other offers those kids had compared to MN's kids, they have better athletes.

My point is that they are not in a different stratosphere like others are suggesting... and that they have had to deal with a lot of adversity since January too, and in fact, just as much, if not more, than the Gophers' players. Yet, they are doing just fine.

I just can't explain being down 6 touchdowns to Purdue. Lose, yes. Destroyed, no.

I didn't know Hoke fell to the ground during the game or for that matter not at practice for a few days. We will never know what the players were thinking. Oh, just some tidbits that need to be adressed.
 


People love ripping on Doogie, maybe some deserved, but I fail to see where this article was that egregious. In a world where Jim Harbaugh has the San Francisco 49ers at 4-1 and beating the Buccaneers 48-3 with inferior talent, I am going to have a tough time believing that what the coaching staff has brought to the table is the best they can do. I have no problem with the Doogie comparing the situation at Michigan and Minnesota, because any intelligent Joe could realize he wasn't suggesting the Gophers should be on pace for 9 wins.

We'll agree to disagree.

Go Gophers!
 

How many of our guys start for Michigan? Boom!!! Poof

The sad part is you think you really made a point. Nobody has anyway possible of knowing the true answer to your question. To pretend like you do would be asinine.

By the way the answer is 7!
 



I think people just need to calm down. Just chill!
There are two types of coaches who are successful
1. One is just plain genius who can make something out of almost nothing. Exhibit A. Jim Harbaugh, Bill Belichick
2. The other one is being tenacious. Have a system work with system Exihibit B.Barry Alvarez , Bud Grant

In our case, if we could have gotten the Type 1. It will be much better, after all of Brewster and Mason disasters.
Let’s be honest, Type 1 is such a rare thing. Besides, we do not have an AD who can make such a good assessment. Our AD is just plain dumb and know how to do stupid things very well. To Mr. Maturi or his family members, I would like to sorry if you’re reading this post. We’re not Stanford. It is such a simple thing. If you ever set a foot in San Jose or Bay Area, you will know what I mean. They are who they are.
Since Kill hire, didn’t we all assume we got Type 2? If you think we got Type 1, you must be delusional. If you want to blame, blame USC game. Because of that game, most of the fan got hyped up.
Coach Kill is not genius, and he will not be Harbaugh. He is inflexible. His assistants are not either. They’re known for not being creative but for working hard. You may say it is one track pony. It is what it is. Please give them enough time folks, they will be good. (God can’t believe I’m saying this!) Are they going to be great? Only Jesus might know.
The other thing is time gap. Nowadays, it is all about NOW! I want it NOW! I want to see it NOW! I have to get it NOW! I NOW! NOW! NOW! NOW! NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We want to be successful and respectable NOW! But we do not have neither coaching stuffs or players that can make it happen overnight. Why are you torturing yourself? It is not worth it. Sometimes just drink a cup of fine tea and let the world pass by. There are damages. It will take time to fix it.
One last thing, Minnesota coaching job is a golden chalice of poison. I’m surprised and unsurprised that Coach Kill took it.
There must be at least two more tough seasons for Gopher fans, even if we can turn around successfully.
Finally, I’ll borrow a line from Coach Kill. If Kill is Type 1. Genius, he won’t be here.
 

The real question is: "...how many guys on Michigan's squad would start for us?"

; 0 )
 

Set the bar all you want.You can't not compare Minnesota and Michigan football.They are in a different universe.
I'll agree with this post for the most part. My numbers might be wrong, but they will be close, (assuming that the TV guys were right). Anyway, they said that Mich has won something like 38 of the last 41 games. That is complete domination and there are surely several reasons for that. At this point in time I don't think that we should use Michigan in a norm referenced comparison. However, I will admit that it is frustrating to lose to them so much, after all, we give scholarships too. And, losing 58-0 makes it a bit more frustrating.
 

I agree with Doogie and Wren.

I do think we have way too much talent here to be losing to NMSU and NDSU (before a couple injuries and before we went young). What you saw in those games was unacceptable and there is a lot of fault to go around. I agree with Doogie in that assesment.

However, you can't compare a program like Michigan with a program like Minnesota. Michigan will never have a talent issue on their team. It just simply won't happen. A Michigan turnaround should be better compared with when Saban took over at Alabama, when Meyer took over at Florida, Pelini at Nebraska there is a ton more talent there (but whatever evaluation you wish to choose, recruitniks, nfl prospects, common sense (who would start for whom), meaning that somewhat of a turnaround can occur pretty quickly.

I said it in another thread...
rebuilding Michigan is like cleaning a house, rebuilding Minnesota is like building a house.
 




Some media wannabes will write anything just to get noticed.
To get noticed wouldn't you want to write an overly positive article that would get the goat of every other media member in town and have you arguing the merits of your article on every 1500ESPN radio program today?
 

anyone else notice how doogie (j-bag jim souhan & fat pat reusse do it too) often takes the premise of stories/headlines that others have already written and then tries to be cute and repackage them as his own or an original? i can't be the only one who notices this. just saying.

ahhh......you gotta love plagiarism.
 

akgopher: you're underestimating the skill-set of some of those guys, and overvaluing some of Michigan's guys. Royston is a good player who will make $$ somewhere next year. Same goes for McKnight. Bennett is a very good blocker and receiver, so would definitely see time.

Just because a guy starts doesn't mean he's in all of the time. Count snaps played. All the guys I mentioned would get plenty of snaps.

He probably will, but it sure won't be in the NFL
 

I just hope you guys are around 3-4 yrs. later and remember what you wrote about kill now. How many will be on the bandwagon and forget how damn negative you were. There is one way to do this and Kill is doing it. The question will be can he recruit well enough. He CAN do the rest.
 

His track record suggests you are right, and can only speak for myself, but have never doubted his long-term potential.

I'm just trying to figure out how he has 4 unforgivable losses, even while fully knowing the mess that Brew left.

Losses were expected vs. Michigan and Purdue, but not like that, and double-digit wins were expected vs. NMSU and NDSU.
 

You are spot on doogie, you can't call for his head yet.

You are also right in saying anybody who has been anything better than extremely disappointed is wearing kill colored glasses.


The coaching job thus far has been embarrassing.
His track record suggests you are right, and can only speak for myself, but have never doubted his long-term potential.

I'm just trying to figure out how he has 4 unforgivable losses, even while fully knowing the mess that Brew left.

Losses were expected vs. Michigan and Purdue, but not like that, and double-digit wins were expected vs. NMSU and NDSU.
 

Maybe I am speaking for Doogie but frame it this way. With the situations having obvious differences, which maybe he should have done for some of the black and white thinkers, can you not say that Hoke has brought more to the table than Kill? I think at this point it's apparent if the situations were reversed Hoke would have had this team in a better postion than Kill at this point. The article seems especially poignant considering the caravan of intelligence paid Hoke a visit in San Diego.

I think Hoke has brought more to the table than Kill, but that goes to back to the fact that Hoke passed on the job. Hoke should be a better coach than Kill, based on the idea that he was the first guy (or one of the first) the Gophers went after. The Michigan job is better than the Gophers job, based on numerous factors, including the levels of talent at each school. As poor as RichRod did at Michigan record-wise, he left the program in pretty good shape. If he did that here, we would have put up a statue of him. Instead, the Gophers had Brewster and there's really no comparison.

Aside from that minor detail, I don't understand why people are blasting Doogs for this article. Most of it is pretty indisputable.
 

His track record suggests you are right, and can only speak for myself, but have never doubted his long-term potential.

I'm just trying to figure out how he has 4 unforgivable losses, even while fully knowing the mess that Brew left.

Losses were expected vs. Michigan and Purdue, but not like that, and double-digit wins were expected vs. NMSU and NDSU.

Are you planning on talking about his health for your next article? Especially with the 4 unforgivable losses?
 

His track record suggests you are right, and can only speak for myself, but have never doubted his long-term potential.

I'm just trying to figure out how he has 4 unforgivable losses, even while fully knowing the mess that Brew left.

Losses were expected vs. Michigan and Purdue, but not like that, and double-digit wins were expected vs. NMSU and NDSU.

After the NMSU game I commented on your article that we couldn't just continue to blame Brew for everything and that part of the problem in that game was on our current staff. For as bad as we are, we are still more talented than NMSU.

However, I think sometimes the tone in this particular article is abit hyperbolic with the use of terms like "unforgiveable". When something is unforgiveable, it usually means it is catastrophic, like something you could NEVER get over.

So while I agree that those losses were partially our current staff's fault, I don't find them to be anymore "unforgiveable" than it was to WI when Barry lost to Temple at HOME in 1990, when Barry got blown out 41-3 at home against Michigan in 1990.

We could compile a list of embarrasing games coached by really good coaches who took over bad programs.
 

emann says: "...The Michigan job is better than the Gophers job, based on numerous factors, including the levels of talent at each school. As poor as RichRod did at Michigan record-wise, he left the program in pretty good shape. If he did that here, we would have put up a statue of him. Instead, the Gophers had Brewster and there's really no comparison..."

THAT is exactly what doogieman got blasted for. He tried to compare Minnesota's situation to Michigan's situation and he TRIED to blast Kill with that comparison. It is high time that the media people get BLASTED by we fans when THEY try to tell US what we should think. What I think is that doogieman's comparison of Michigan to Minnesota was SO absurd that I HAD to tell doogieman that I totally disagreed with what he said. I've been watching Gopher Football for over half a century and the ONLY times Minnesota Football compared favorably with Michigan Football during the time I was watching Gopher Football was under Murray Warmath...the late 50's-1967 when the Gophers won quite a few games against Michigan. That coincided with a "down" period for Michigan Football in which MSU came into the Big Ten and was the best Big Ten Team in the state of Michigan. Then, Bo Schembeckler took over and it was pretty much all Michigan all the time with the exception of Stoll's win and then Gutey's win in 1986. Other than Murray's good run against Michigan, the ONLY other multiple year run in which the Gophers were "right there" with Michigan occurred from 2003 through 2005. The 2003 and 2004 games were heartbreaking losses and in 2005, the Gophers beat Michigan. During that 3 year stretch...there were a LOT of Gophers playing who could have played for Michigan...and a remarkable number of Michigan players would not have been starting for the Gophers.

doogieman also talks about "the expectations..." WHAT damn expectations? Anyone with a brain knows that last year Minnesota only won 1 ooc game and after brewster had been fired and bought out, Horton led the Gophers to 2 Big Ten wins for a total of 3 wins.

A Lot of the EXPERIENCE graduated or is no longer here. Another new head coach, new set of coordinators, new position coaches came on board. 22 of the players who were here were academically inelegible.

"...expectations..." are usually the very first things to be broken, smashed, dashed, bashed and trashed during a total rebuilding process and even during the best of times, jumping to "expectations" created by the media is a pretty foolish passtime. Of course, those media types just LOVE to have "unmet-expectations.." to write about.

Anybody who had "expectations" for this total rebuilding year was just plain "full of it..."

Sorry doogieman and emann: you media wannabe's are going to have to do a lot better than you and your pals on the air waves, in the print or on the internet have been doing. Come up with something in which there really IS a comparison. Try comparing apples to apples. What makes this rebuilding job the same...or different than other rebuilding jobs by coaches here at the Unviersity of Minnesota? There certainly have been a LOT of rebuilding jobs here at the U of M...compare and/or contrast?

For crying out loud: who is to blame????? I suppose that ultimately the administrator who has hired the coaches, fired the coaches, signed off on all the different coordinators and has left the poor kids in the program adrift in all of the confusion, distraction and utter chaos of the badger joel macturi/prexy b administrative moves, blunders, errors, buyouts and poor timing mistakes. Now THAT would be a worthy topic for either you emann or doogieman to explore in depth....

; 0 )
 


People are so defensive sometimes. Michigan is not MN. But both Hoke and Kill came into the season with a certain level of expectation. One has has vastly exceeded it so far. The other has vastly failed so far. In that, it is a fair comparison. We could be 3-3 to Michigan's 6-0 and be saying they were both doing a great job.
 

People are so defensive sometimes. Michigan is not MN. But both Hoke and Kill came into the season with a certain level of expectation. One has has vastly exceeded it so far. The other has vastly failed so far. In that, it is a fair comparison. We could be 3-3 to Michigan's 6-0 and be saying they were both doing a great job.
This is what the black and white thinkers do not understand.
 

To get noticed wouldn't you want to write an overly positive article that would get the goat of every other media member in town and have you arguing the merits of your article on every 1500ESPN radio program today?

Sorry, can't listen to that station. Not only does it not come in real good, the only guy I even halfway like is Cory Roufs and they won't let him talk. I wouldn't hold this up as some measure of being noticed, being quoted on a station you work for.
 

People are so defensive sometimes. Michigan is not MN. But both Hoke and Kill came into the season with a certain level of expectation. One has has vastly exceeded it so far. The other has vastly failed so far. In that, it is a fair comparison. We could be 3-3 to Michigan's 6-0 and be saying they were both doing a great job.
Very good point. I think people also have a hard time dealing with the evidence before them and don't want to even think that Kill might fail and so they buy into the excuses. I think I was this way with Brew for long time before the truth smacked me in the face last year. I'm not saying that Kill is going to fail nor do I want him to but if I was making an educated guess, I wouldn't be betting on him from what I have seen so far.
 

emann says: "...The Michigan job is better than the Gophers job, based on numerous factors, including the levels of talent at each school. As poor as RichRod did at Michigan record-wise, he left the program in pretty good shape. If he did that here, we would have put up a statue of him. Instead, the Gophers had Brewster and there's really no comparison..."

THAT is exactly what doogieman got blasted for. He tried to compare Minnesota's situation to Michigan's situation and he TRIED to blast Kill with that comparison. It is high time that the media people get BLASTED by we fans when THEY try to tell US what we should think. What I think is that doogieman's comparison of Michigan to Minnesota was SO absurd that I HAD to tell doogieman that I totally disagreed with what he said. I've been watching Gopher Football for over half a century and the ONLY times Minnesota Football compared favorably with Michigan Football during the time I was watching Gopher Football was under Murray Warmath...the late 50's-1967 when the Gophers won quite a few games against Michigan. That coincided with a "down" period for Michigan Football in which MSU came into the Big Ten and was the best Big Ten Team in the state of Michigan. Then, Bo Schembeckler took over and it was pretty much all Michigan all the time with the exception of Stoll's win and then Gutey's win in 1986. Other than Murray's good run against Michigan, the ONLY other multiple year run in which the Gophers were "right there" with Michigan occurred from 2003 through 2005. The 2003 and 2004 games were heartbreaking losses and in 2005, the Gophers beat Michigan. During that 3 year stretch...there were a LOT of Gophers playing who could have played for Michigan...and a remarkable number of Michigan players would not have been starting for the Gophers.

doogieman also talks about "the expectations..." WHAT damn expectations? Anyone with a brain knows that last year Minnesota only won 1 ooc game and after brewster had been fired and bought out, Horton led the Gophers to 2 Big Ten wins for a total of 3 wins.

A Lot of the EXPERIENCE graduated or is no longer here. Another new head coach, new set of coordinators, new position coaches came on board. 22 of the players who were here were academically inelegible.

"...expectations..." are usually the very first things to be broken, smashed, dashed, bashed and trashed during a total rebuilding process and even during the best of times, jumping to "expectations" created by the media is a pretty foolish passtime. Of course, those media types just LOVE to have "unmet-expectations.." to write about.

Anybody who had "expectations" for this total rebuilding year was just plain "full of it..."

Sorry doogieman and emann: you media wannabe's are going to have to do a lot better than you and your pals on the air waves, in the print or on the internet have been doing. Come up with something in which there really IS a comparison. Try comparing apples to apples. What makes this rebuilding job the same...or different than other rebuilding jobs by coaches here at the Unviersity of Minnesota? There certainly have been a LOT of rebuilding jobs here at the U of M...compare and/or contrast?

For crying out loud: who is to blame????? I suppose that ultimately the administrator who has hired the coaches, fired the coaches, signed off on all the different coordinators and has left the poor kids in the program adrift in all of the confusion, distraction and utter chaos of the badger joel macturi/prexy b administrative moves, blunders, errors, buyouts and poor timing mistakes. Now THAT would be a worthy topic for either you emann or doogieman to explore in depth....

; 0 )

imthewalrus: when can I move past being a "media wannabe" in your mind? When I reach 20 years in the business? 25? When I work for a 10th outlet?

Emann's got solid credentials too.

I get, and even welcome, you going at me on my analysis. I love the back-and-forth with passionate fans. Glad there are still enough. But just leave it at dissecting what I write or what I say on 1500/Ch. 5, not who I am, or apparently aspire to be.
 




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