Do you want Ben back for a fourth year?

[Dakota2]

Look, he either isn't doing enough to develop the bench players or he's not recruiting enough reserves of sufficient quality to be developed adequately. I'm not a paid consultant for Gopher basketball so I don't have to figure out the reasons why.

At least this season he got the starters and the top reserve right.

And Painter didn't do enough either or he would have beaten Wisconsin.

 

[Dakota2]

Ihnen was the only player Ben decided to keep and allegedly fought hard to keep him. It is now his 3rd year in Ben's program. He is healthy enough to play. If you can't trust him to play at this point for even 5-10 minutes, that is an issue with the coaching staff.

The issue is he suffered two very serious knee injuries over two summers, didn't play basketball for two years and isn't good enough now to be helpful.

It is a sign of good coaching to recognize later in the season who you can trust and who you can't.

 

[GopherBlood777]

The issue is he suffered two very serious knee injuries over two summers, didn't play basketball for two years and isn't good enough now to be helpful.

It is a sign of good coaching to recognize later in the season who you can trust and who you can't.

I mean he was literally starting and playing 20 minutes a game earlier in the year. I didn't agree with that, but not even 1-2 4 minute subs per game? We went 1-5 down the stretch, would we have been 0-6 if Ihnen averaged 8 minutes per game?

 

[CentralGopher]

I meant end of the season gassed and that didn't help things. They also had an extra game that last week as others were a game ahead of them.

We played 5 games in 14 days to end the regular season.
Northwestern played 5 in 18 days as an example. Most teams had extra rest coming in the last week to our game and we had two guys out with concussions.

Excuses Excuses I know, but it tells some of the story.

These are young kids in way better shape than I am. If they’re truly too tired to play hard the coach needs to adjust practice to account for that but I doubt that is the case with kids like that since they can bounce back pretty quickly at that age.

 

[Bad Gopher]

I mean he was literally starting and playing 20 minutes a game earlier in the year. I didn't agree with that, but not even 1-2 4 minute subs per game? We went 1-5 down the stretch, would we have been 0-6 if Ihnen averaged 8 minutes per game?

It's hard to explain. Just like JOJ's usage is hard to explain. They go from starting when they shouldn't to not playing at all when they should, at least some. The Gophers ran out of gas in the Michigan State game, which they could have won if they'd been fresher. It's puzzling and maddening.

 

[MaxyJR1]

These are young kids in way better shape than I am. If they’re truly too tired to play hard the coach needs to adjust practice to account for that but I doubt that is the case with kids like that since they can bounce back pretty quickly at that age.

They can and it's a weak excuse on my part, but playing 6-7 guys down the stretch, one coming off back to back knee injuries and another with a concussion.

Hawkins play 40 minutes last four games of regular season
Garcia well above average for 3 of 4 last games
Christie up 3 of last 4 games
Mitchell up 3 of last 4 games
Payne up 3 of last 4 games
Fox Up by about 10 minutes a game down the stretch

Carrington down in same stretch
OLJ down

We basically played 5 guys against Illinois.


Coach needs more depth and have his guys fresher at the end of the season.

 

[MNVCGUY]

It's hard to explain. Just like JOJ's usage is hard to explain. They go from starting when they shouldn't to not playing at all when they should, at least some. The Gophers ran out of gas in the Michigan State game, which they could have won if they'd been fresher. It's puzzling and maddening.

If you look at Ihnen's game logs he did basically nothing in Big Ten games regardless of the number of minutes he played. His starts and heavy minutes were early against bad teams. Unfortunately he just wasn't good enough to hold up against Big Ten competition apparently.

JOJ is an odd one and it really feels like there has to be something going on that wasn't disclosed to the media. Injury, discipline.....something was going on that caused him to go from a huge part of the rotation to a complete non-factor in the later part of the season. Obviously the play of Parker Fox was a big contributer in the reduction of JOJ's minutes but it doesn't explain all of it.

 

[Dakota2]

I mean he was literally starting and playing 20 minutes a game earlier in the year. I didn't agree with that, but not even 1-2 4 minute subs per game? We went 1-5 down the stretch, would we have been 0-6 if Ihnen averaged 8 minutes per game?

Our record down the stretch had nothing to do with Ihnen playing any minutes or not. The coach thought we had a better chance without him. I agree.

 

[Dakota2]

These are young kids in way better shape than I am. If they’re truly too tired to play hard the coach needs to adjust practice to account for that but I doubt that is the case with kids like that since they can bounce back pretty quickly at that age.

They did play hard. Lack of effort was not the issue.

 

[Rex]

Plenty isn't very specific. Just give us a name of a coach who went from two conference wins to nine and got fired.

I'm glad to see that we're talking conference wins. There's not a lot of Coaches given the opportunity to go from 4 wins to 2 to 9. Any Coach? or Coaches that are on their 1st head coaching job? Coaches let go because of "infractions" are not being considered. Any other "goalposts"?

Ernie Kent (Oregon 1997-2010) comes close. Fired after going 2-16 to 7-11(+5). He led Oregon to it's 1st conference title in 63 years. 2 Elite 8s. 5 NCAA's, 2 NITs, at the time of his firing all-time leader in wins at Oregon. But at the end, +5< +7.

Ernie Kent - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I haven't spent a lot of time on this topic (post-season tourneys, high school post-season, transfer portal, etc..... are a lot more interesting), but it seems like most (not all) of the People that have low win totals on their resumes eventually get fired.

 

[GopherBlood777]

Our record down the stretch had nothing to do with Ihnen playing any minutes or not. The coach thought we had a better chance without him. I agree.

What do you think is the main reason we faltered down the stretch and played noticeably worse defense in the second half of the season?

 

[Johnnyboy18]

I'm glad to see that we're talking conference wins. There's not a lot of Coaches given the opportunity to go from 4 wins to 2 to 9. Any Coach? or Coaches that are on their 1st head coaching job? Coaches let go because of "infractions" are not being considered. Any other "goalposts"?

Ernie Kent (Oregon 1997-2010) comes close. Fired after going 2-16 to 7-11(+5). He led Oregon to it's 1st conference title in 63 years. 2 Elite 8s. 5 NCAA's, 2 NITs, at the time of his firing all-time leader in wins at Oregon. But at the end, +5< +7.

Ernie Kent - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I haven't spent a lot of time on this topic (post-season tourneys, high school post-season, transfer portal, etc..... are a lot more interesting), but it seems like most (not all) of the People that have low win totals on their resumes eventually get fired.

That's true for most coaches regardless of high or low win totals everywhere.

 

[MonikerSchmoniker45]

The subject of poor defense or defensive intensity has come up quite a bit lately.

The team did not lack effort or intensity. They did lack size and strength. When you look at the number of strong guards around 6'4 in the league -- Marcus Domask of Illinois being the poster boy -- you just know our guards can't stop them from getting to the basket and scoring. Not for lack of effort, for lack of strength and height.

Garcia worked really hard on defense but he is not a strong guy relative to many power forwards in the league. Fox outworks anyone but lacks strength. Payne has the strength but he is fooled like a kid watching a magician with a bean under one of the shells.

The effort was there. We won games with hustle and hitting threes. We didn't overpower anyone.

The highest portal priority is two big guys, really strong, who rebound ferociously and play defense.

How would you explain the slow start most games?

 

[howeda7]

How many would change their vote if Christie and Garcia leave?

 

[Gopheritnow]

How many would change their vote if Christie and Garcia leave?

Lot depends on where they go? Turning pro? Don’t blame them, although the best either can hope for now is G league or Europe? Do t see either ready for NBA currently.

 

[leib0039]

The issue is he suffered two very serious knee injuries over two summers, didn't play basketball for two years and isn't good enough now to be helpful.

It is a sign of good coaching to recognize later in the season who you can trust and who you can't.

What a reply.

So let me get this straight, CBJ did a great job bringing in guys like JOJ/Betts/Ihnen/Wilson and then when none of them were good enough to play 1 minute it was also CBJs genius that kept them on the bench. Wow, we truly have a transcendent coach who not only is the best recruiter but also the smartest coach ever.

Trying to decide if Dakota is CBJ or Coyle with comments like that

 

[Spaulding!No!]

How would you explain the slow start most games?

I wrote that off as better scouting.

 

[howeda7]

Lot depends on where they go? Turning pro? Don’t blame them, although the best either can hope for now is G league or Europe? Do t see either ready for NBA currently.

You're optimistic about what Ben will do without them next year?

 

[Dakota2]

What do you think is the main reason we faltered down the stretch and played noticeably worse defense in the second half of the season?

My opinion is we faltered due to cold outside shooting, mostly. That might have been tied to late season fatigue with a short bench.

I don't think our defensive effort was bad or worse late in the season. Everybody who played gave a lot of effort. When you play strong rebounding teams with strong guards, a physically weaker team like ours will get punished no matter how much effort they give.

For example, Hawkins and Mitchell are very good defenders on the perimeter where their speed and quick hands are an advantage. But when they are posted up by big, strong guards -- there are a lot of them in the Big Ten -- they look poor on defense.

 

[Dakota2]

How would you explain the slow start most games?

For all teams, slow start / fast start is tied to hitting a bunch of early shots or missing them. One team starts hot and the other misses a bunch.

I don't think a coach can teach a team to start hot. We had very large early leads against Iowa and Purdue. Neither Fran nor Painter wanted their teams down big in the first half. They just couldn't stop it because we were hot from three.

 

[Dakota2]

What a reply.

So let me get this straight, CBJ did a great job bringing in guys like JOJ/Betts/Ihnen/Wilson and then when none of them were good enough to play 1 minute it was also CBJs genius that kept them on the bench. Wow, we truly have a transcendent coach who not only is the best recruiter but also the smartest coach ever.

Trying to decide if Dakota is CBJ or Coyle with comments like that

Who claimed Johnson did a great job bringing in JOJ/Betts/Ihnen/Wilson?

First, let's clean up some of your sloppy writing. He didn't bring in Ihnen. Pitino did. Second, JOJ was part of a decent freshman class the year before and was good enough to start about 30 games.

I don't know what kind of a job it was bringing in Betts. Neither do you. Wilson did nothing but maybe somebody else brought in his spot does less.

Ihnen can't play Big Ten basketball after two knee reconstructions. Ben tried him, gave him plenty of opportunity, then decided not to play him late in the season. Yet you and others are screeching he didn't play Ihnen to rest somebody. Dumb.

Johnson did a great job bringing in Christie. A did a very good job bringing in Hawkins. Mitchell helped a lot. He brought in Fox who defied all odds by returning after back-to-back major knee surgeries and sparking the team on the floor.

The facts are just the facts. Nobody has said Johnson has excelled at bringing people in so far. But he hasn't failed either. He has built a current roster somewhat above 13 or 14th place talent and gotten them to play quite a bit above their talent level. That's to his credit. The length of his tenure depends entirely upon continuing to increase roster talent and depth. Nothing more, nothing less. And especially not anything to do with your little girlie pissing and whining.

 

[Dakota2]

I wrote that off as better scouting.

Dumb. When we got early leads at Iowa and Purdue and shot 60% against Illinois it was because Fran, Painter, and Underwood don't know how to scout?

Good one. Keep entertaining us. Please.

 

[MonikerSchmoniker45]

For all teams, slow start / fast start is tied to hitting a bunch of early shots or missing them. One team starts hot and the other misses a bunch.

I don't think a coach can teach a team to start hot. We had very large early leads against Iowa and Purdue. Neither Fran nor Painter wanted their teams down big in the first half. They just couldn't stop it because we were hot from three.

I'm not buying it. We've seen a consistent pattern of starting out slow. If what you're saying is true then CBJ needs to change it up a bit. His "live and die by the three" phiIosophy will only get us so far. I also don't buy that we can't bang down low. Garcia is skilled enough and, unless Payne is hurting, he's an absolute force. Just need to get him closer to the basket.

 

[Dakota2]

I'm not buying it. We've seen a consistent pattern of starting out slow. If what you're saying is true then CBJ needs to change it up a bit. His "live and die by the three" phiIosophy will only get us so far. I also don't buy that we can't bang down low. Garcia is skilled enough and, unless Payne is hurting, he's an absolute force. Just need to get him closer to the basket.

We started fast in several games. Missouri, at Iowa, at Purdue, and at Illinois. We live and die by the three because we are not strong inside. Dawson is very skilled at getting to the basket from 12-15 out. Run that every time and he is three-teamed.

Payne is not an absolute force unless he has the ball very low in the block. He does not know how to get the low position much so we are feeding him 12 feet out where he is anything but an absolute force. He is a turnover machine as much as a scorer.

 

[Rex]

That's true for most coaches regardless of high or low win totals everywhere.

I stand by what I posted, Maybe after more research, I'll have a change of heart. I have no problem having my opinion changed.

I want everyone to know that when I first read this reply, I gave it a "like". But I rescinded the "like". I don't believe "most" high win total coaches are fired for winning. They're fired for other reasons (such as infractions), not their win-loss success on the court.

It's not a easy job. I swing back and forth on CBJ. I want to see him succeed because that means the Gophers are doing well. He'll get year 4 (I'll admit, I voted no).

 

[leib0039]

Who claimed Johnson did a great job bringing in JOJ/Betts/Ihnen/Wilson?

First, let's clean up some of your sloppy writing. He didn't bring in Ihnen. Pitino did. Second, JOJ was part of a decent freshman class the year before and was good enough to start about 30 games.

I don't know what kind of a job it was bringing in Betts. Neither do you. Wilson did nothing but maybe somebody else brought in his spot does less.

Ihnen can't play Big Ten basketball after two knee reconstructions. Ben tried him, gave him plenty of opportunity, then decided not to play him late in the season. Yet you and others are screeching he didn't play Ihnen to rest somebody. Dumb.

Johnson did a great job bringing in Christie. A did a very good job bringing in Hawkins. Mitchell helped a lot. He brought in Fox who defied all odds by returning after back-to-back major knee surgeries and sparking the team on the floor.

The facts are just the facts. Nobody has said Johnson has excelled at bringing people in so far. But he hasn't failed either. He has built a current roster somewhat above 13 or 14th place talent and gotten them to play quite a bit above their talent level. That's to his credit. The length of his tenure depends entirely upon continuing to increase roster talent and depth. Nothing more, nothing less. And especially not anything to do with your little girlie pissing and whining.

I just find it comical that you never criticize the coach or are ever wrong. Just some more excuses. Come to think of it, just like the coach....hmmmm

 

[MonikerSchmoniker45]

We started fast in several games. Missouri, at Iowa, at Purdue, and at Illinois. We live and die by the three because we are not strong inside. Dawson is very skilled at getting to the basket from 12-15 out. Run that every time and he is three-teamed.

Payne is not an absolute force unless he has the ball very low in the block. He does not know how to get the low position much so we are feeding him 12 feet out where he is anything but an absolute force. He is a turnover machine as much as a scorer.

He doesn't know how? You can't be serious, they teach sixth graders how to get position in the post.

 

[WayOfTheGopher]

If he doesn't make the NCAA tournament next year then he's done.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

I just find it comical that you never criticize the coach or are ever wrong. Just some more excuses. Come to think of it, just like the coach....hmmmm

No bad days.

 

[GoDucks349]

I'm glad to see that we're talking conference wins. There's not a lot of Coaches given the opportunity to go from 4 wins to 2 to 9. Any Coach? or Coaches that are on their 1st head coaching job? Coaches let go because of "infractions" are not being considered. Any other "goalposts"?

Ernie Kent (Oregon 1997-2010) comes close. Fired after going 2-16 to 7-11(+5). He led Oregon to it's 1st conference title in 63 years. 2 Elite 8s. 5 NCAA's, 2 NITs, at the time of his firing all-time leader in wins at Oregon. But at the end, +5< +7.

Ernie Kent - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I haven't spent a lot of time on this topic (post-season tourneys, high school post-season, transfer portal, etc..... are a lot more interesting), but it seems like most (not all) of the People that have low win totals on their resumes eventually get fired.

Just a quick comment on Ernie, loved the guy. Great basketball player when he was with the Ducks team that was nicknamed the Kamikaze Kids for the level of intensity hustle and defense they played. He is a gentleman and just an excellent human being. Wish him well.