Do MN really suck that bad?

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Ewert86PC said:
I just found a prime example to answer this question on Facebook.

Let's play Where's Elmo?

Here's a hint: John Rich omitted a school that has won the National Championship seven times.
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If you’re referring to the Gophers, well, they’re in the “North Pacific Conference,” along with those famous Pacific-region schools Wisconsin and Northern Illinois, and Northern schools New Mexico and New Mexico State.
 

pk2 said:
If you’re referring to the Gophers, well, they’re in the “North Pacific Conference,” along with those famous Pacific-region schools Wisconsin and Northern Illinois, and Northern schools New Mexico and New Mexico State.
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If the "M" isn't used, it's worthless. As much as I love Goldy, they are not our logo. Goldy is our mascot.
 

touchdownvikings said:
Como -

I haven't heard from you... but it has been said that it isn't true that Howard could be a back door. Please look at the attached. This is the interview schedule for Williams, Connolly -- the best DC litigation firm. They interview at the T14, plus Vandy and Texas (near great law schools) and... Howard. Howard is absolutely a potential backdoor, if that may fit you in terms of being African American. Assuming that is the case (I wouldn't know), T14 would serve you better, but Howard would also be a serious consideration.

Plato -

LOTS of people do well from UMN. Hopefully, most! ...The point is only that it doesn't do anything for you if you intend to go into those rare fields that have long ago erected prestige as a gate keeper.
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So what are those "rare fields that have erected prestige as the gatekeeper"?
What are the "rare fields"?
What do you mean by "prestige"?
Are you making rare fields a person who can erect prestige?
I hope you do better in legal writing.
 

A poster said you don't go to the U and work at Goldman Sachs, well, I did both. Guess what, they aren't all geniuses at Goldman, including me. There are so many things that go into leading a successful life. Where you go to school is only one of them and NOT the most important thing, not by a long shot. I personally feel like where you go to school is a little overrated and I've seen that first hand. Don't overpay for an overrated education and that's coming from a guy with an MBA and an undergrad in engineering.

Most of our lives are determined by what we do AFTER we get our degrees. It's called job performance and making good choices! I've known a lot of very book smart people that were very good at making dumb decisions. I've been blessed to live around the world and be around some of the best and then end up right back here in Minnesota. Guess what? Some of the best are right here and they never left! Some of them even seem to spend some time in this goofy forum!:) The U of M is an excellent school in this region and I think that's good enough to accomplish anything you want in life. I have two very intelligent sons approaching college age and will have no fears for their future if they ONLY go to the U of M.
 

touchdownvikings said:
Como -

I haven't heard from you... but it has been said that it isn't true that Howard could be a back door. Please look at the attached. This is the interview schedule for Williams, Connolly -- the best DC litigation firm. They interview at the T14, plus Vandy and Texas (near great law schools) and... Howard. Howard is absolutely a potential backdoor, if that may fit you in terms of being African American. Assuming that is the case (I wouldn't know), T14 would serve you better, but Howard would also be a serious consideration.

Plato -

LOTS of people do well from UMN. Hopefully, most! ...The point is only that it doesn't do anything for you if you intend to go into those rare fields that have long ago erected prestige as a gate keeper.
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Hey Touchdown,

I really appreciate you taking the time to write out such a detailed response. As for me, I have already passed my college years, and I truly didn't have the drive to pursue an elite field like law or finance. I was mainly asking for my little sister who is starting the college admissions process and has an interest in pursuing law school after undergrad. While I am glad to hear that there are opportunities for HBCU students, I don't think that will be an appropriate path for my sister as we are white. On a tangential note, is the prestige of your undergrad degree a large part of Law School admissions, or can an exceptional LSAT score make up for an undergrad degree from a non "target school"? Also, is a political science degree the best bet to get in to law school, or is there another program that can check that box? Again, I really thank you for your input here!
 


ComoCraig said:
Hey Touchdown,

I really appreciate you taking the time to write out such a detailed response. As for me, I have already passed my college years, and I truly didn't have the drive to pursue an elite field like law or finance. I was mainly asking for my little sister who is starting the college admissions process and has an interest in pursuing law school after undergrad. While I am glad to hear that there are opportunities for HBCU students, I don't think that will be an appropriate path for my sister as we are white. On a tangential note, is the prestige of your undergrad degree a large part of Law School admissions, or can an exceptional LSAT score make up for an undergrad degree from a non "target school"? Also, is a political science degree the best bet to get in to law school, or is there another program that can check that box? Again, I really thank you for your input here!
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Prestige of undergrad matters very little to law school. (But it matters -- indirectly -- a great deal for business school.). For law school, a top GPA and LSAT will open doors, if the remainder of the application is done well.
 

ComoCraig said:
Hey Touchdown,

I really appreciate you taking the time to write out such a detailed response. As for me, I have already passed my college years, and I truly didn't have the drive to pursue an elite field like law or finance. I was mainly asking for my little sister who is starting the college admissions process and has an interest in pursuing law school after undergrad. While I am glad to hear that there are opportunities for HBCU students, I don't think that will be an appropriate path for my sister as we are white. On a tangential note, is the prestige of your undergrad degree a large part of Law School admissions, or can an exceptional LSAT score make up for an undergrad degree from a non "target school"? Also, is a political science degree the best bet to get in to law school, or is there another program that can check that box? Again, I really thank you for your input here!
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Take the GRE instead. A lot of law schools accept it now, and it's an easier test.

In fact, if she is set on law school, then she should major in something very easy. You want a high GPA. There are no points granted for graduating with a more difficult major. All they care about is test score and GPA because that's what gets reported for law school rankings.

So, take family science, get a 4.0 and you'll be in better shape than the chemical engineering major who had a 3.5 GPA.
 

TruthSeeker said:
Take the GRE instead. A lot of law schools accept it now, and it's an easier test.

In fact, if she is set on law school, then she should major in something very easy. You want a high GPA. There are no points granted for graduating with a more difficult major. All they care about is test score and GPA because that's what gets reported for law school rankings.

So, take family science, get a 4.0 and you'll be in better shape than the chemical engineering major who had a 3.5 GPA.
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Oh man don't get me started on the folks I know who did that.

Not saying you're wrong, I assume that works.

But man when I was in school and I had friends who did that there was something about the whole game of wasting years taking the easiest thing ever in order to look smrt (they all of course felt they were...) and then hit a career path that is overloaded with people who want to do the job that seemed, dishonest, a potential foot-gun / at the very least wasted time coasting along.

Later in life I ended up working with a few other folks who took that path, couldn't cut it or found out law school wasn't for them. For some reason it was a high percentage of not fun people to work with...
 

I share some of the frustration that Minnesota feels like a school that underperforms a bit in academic and athletic rankings.

But expecting it to be among the elite of the elite public schools isn’t very realistic or just a matter of institutional will. It’s not as if we could be Cal if we just tried harder. It’s a problem at least partially based on demographics.

To be an elite university, you need to be exclusive. To be exclusive, you need a lot more people wanting to go there than you have spots. Unless you’re an established Ivy school or something similar, you need some reason to get people clamoring to get in. In that respect, it helps to have a large and/or growing population of in-state students.

The top 10 P5 public schools are: Cal, UCLA, Michigan, UVA, UF, UNC, Texas, Wisconsin, Illinois, Georgia Tech. All but Wisconsin (no. 20) and Virginia (no. 12, and near the northeast corridor) are in the top 10 most populous states, and I don’t think that’s coincidence.

What about the 6 states nearest to Minnesota in population: Maryland, Colorado, Wisconsin, South Carolina, Alabama, Louisiana. The U is behind only Wisconsin and (just barely) Maryland of those state’s ~9 flagship universities. Really, as the 23rd best public school (not just 23rd best flagship) in the 22nd most populous state (one that many consider unlivable tundra), Minnesota arguably over performs academically—you have to consider that many states have multiple public flagships. And that’s just undergrad. Minnesota generally does better in grad school/research ranking.

So yeah, I want Minnesota to be “better” but I don’t expect it—or need it—to be a place where our grads are regularly beating out Michigan bros for spots at Cravath or Goldman Sachs. It’s a good school we should be proud of.

That said, I absolutely think we could climb to top ~15 public schools with some real focus. We should at least be able to do what Wisconsin has done. One way to do that? Win some football/basketball games and get more national exposure. Ski-U-Mah!
 



They have had endless State and Federal money to spend. It is also painless spending others money. Just like the Federals Government, if they had to run their affairs like we do, they would have some accountability.
 

Well, anyone that has done research knows how dubious research can be. Just ask a Republican and Democrat what research they are referring to when they come to completely different conclusions on the same issue. These school rankings are often times splitting hairs and average out large, complex universities. Minnesota is a leading state and has great universities in some areas - agriculture, medicine and medical devices, ANYTHING TO DO WITH REALLY CRAPPY COLD WEATHER, etc. - and less so in others. Top universities actually work together in many areas, including research, which muddies the waters further. Someone mentioned we're top ranked in chemical engineering for example. That was true when I was an engineering student 30 years ago. When I was getting my MBA there, we used Harvard case studies to learn about the secrets of success for companies like McDonalds, GE (that shows you how old I am), Microsoft, etc. Information was pretty ubiquitous then and even more so today. Much more so than super fast athletes!

I'm not saying the U is equal to the very top schools, but I also think the gap is pretty small. It's much smaller than between our football team and Alabama's for example. The south doesn't have a quasi-monopoly on brains like they do fast football players. A lot of smart people stay home for various reasons and some smart people actually come to our state. They don't all leave. Super smart people from all over the world will kick down doors...and sneak across borders...to get into our country and go to our colleges. Again, speaking from my own experience, a large percentage of engineering students at the U do not look like your average Minnesotan! A certain super smart percentage of 7 billion people can't all get into Harvard. We're just very fortunate to have some of the greatest schools in the world that share information and resources. A rising tide lifts all boats.
 

Tommyboy said:
They have had endless State and Federal money to spend. It is also painless spending others money. Just like the Federals Government, if they had to run their affairs like we do, they would have some accountability.
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This is certainly not true. I know in the past that the U has been told by the State legislature that it's budget is too big and needs to be less, and thus was declined. Saying the university has had an endless amount of money to spend is absurd.

Furthermore, what would any of you have the university do? Hire professors and researchers from other universities? Increase admission standards?
 

Taji34 said:
This is certainly not true. I know in the past that the U has been told by the State legislature that it's budget is too big and needs to be less, and thus was declined. Saying the university has had an endless amount of money to spend is absurd.

Furthermore, what would any of you have the university do? Hire professors and researchers from other universities? Increase admission standards?
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Their answer for their Hospitals 100 million dollar losses is to get a large check from the state tax surplus. I wish I could do that when times get tough.
 



Tommyboy said:
Their answer for their Hospitals 100 million dollar losses is to get a large check from the state tax surplus. I wish I could do that when times get tough.
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The shallowness of this post is breathtaking.
 


As I wrote at the start of this topic if you look closely at the "rankings" after Northwestern-a private school- they separate into groups of three that are so close to one another they should have the same rank.
 

Nebraska = Boise State. On the bottom academically but they're good at sports!
 

Some guy said:
One of the downsides to being associated with great peers is that you can look average or below average compared to them.

Someone is the worst Ivy.



Do you want to be the 7th best house in the best neighborhood or the best house in a terrible neighborhood?
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That’s what losers say
 


Some guy said:
The 14th richest man in the world is pretty poor if compared to only the top 18

I don’t consider that person a loser though
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I bet these people have unironically said "If you're not first, you're last".
 



I think everyone on this thread is entitled to a participation trophy! 🏆
 

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