Dick Vitale sounds off: This transferring all over the place is going to destroy our great game



PeoplesFront

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
417
Reaction score
335
Points
63
Given the uncertainty of covid and the subsequent shutdowns last March, I can see why the NCAA did what they did regarding transfers at the time; however, a (mostly) full basketball season was just completed and vaccinations are increasing by the day. I actually agree with Dickie V on this one.

Edit: is the ability to transfer without sitting out a year the official NCAA stance from now on, or is it temporary? If it is the official procedure going forward, I must have missed it.
 

cjbfbp

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
8,638
Reaction score
3,085
Points
113
Dick Vitale has done a lot in his career for college basketball but his predictions are often wrong. He vociferously criticized the NBA for drafting underclassman based on potential over four year players with great college careers but the NBA strategy mostly has been vindicated since. As a Sixers fan, I remember one particular instance where he strongly criticized drafting soph Andre Iguodala at #9 instead of Oregon's senior Luke Jackson. Jackson ending up going right after Iguodala. Jackson lasted four years in the league without showing much while Iguodala is now in his 17th year.
 

jamiche

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
22,646
Reaction score
2,675
Points
113
Dick has made millions and millions of dollars from “our great game.” The players basically work 40 hours/week for meal money. (It’s not a free education when you aren’t free to take the classes you want.) It’s a corrupt system and players should have more choices. They are the talent.
 



Joined
Dec 28, 2020
Messages
61
Reaction score
53
Points
18
Dick has made millions and millions of dollars from “our great game.” The players basically work 40 hours/week for meal money. (It’s not a free education when you aren’t free to take the classes you want.) It’s a corrupt system and players should have more choices. They are the talent.
Schools invest in young kids in hopes they can grow to be contributors down the road on their sports teams. It isn't right for there to be no obligation on the part of the players.

I get your point, but don't pretend there's only one side to this coin.
 
Last edited:

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
25,466
Reaction score
6,133
Points
113
Edit: is the ability to transfer without sitting out a year the official NCAA stance from now on, or is it temporary? If it is the official procedure going forward, I must have missed it.
All DI sports, other than football and M & W bball, have always allowed all players the opportunity to transfer one time between four-year schools (ie, not JUCOs) without a sit out. Volleyball, soccer, baseball, softball, etc.

Now they're just making it so that football and bball have the same rule, going forward.
 




MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
25,466
Reaction score
6,133
Points
113
Dick has made millions and millions of dollars from “our great game.” The players basically work 40 hours/week for meal money. (It’s not a free education when you aren’t free to take the classes you want.) It’s a corrupt system and players should have more choices. They are the talent.
Well in that light, I would say getting paid for a minimum two year commitment to a school sounds fair.
 

howeda7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
55,921
Reaction score
12,315
Points
113
Well in that light, I would say getting paid for a minimum two year commitment to a school sounds fair.
As long as it's only a one-time transfer, that is essentially built in. Guys aren't going to transfer a 2nd time and sit out a year. So the insanity and volume of this year is a one-time thing.

Of course the NCAA being the NCAA it would be hilarious if they now don't pass the exemption and have to approve each one on a case by case basis. The Wheel of Random Decisions will surely burst into flames for good.
 

WoodburyTim

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2016
Messages
1,658
Reaction score
531
Points
113
Dick has made millions and millions of dollars from “our great game.” The players basically work 40 hours/week for meal money. (It’s not a free education when you aren’t free to take the classes you want.) It’s a corrupt system and players should have more choices. They are the talent.

This is the catchy thing to say, but sadly it isn't really true. The system is corrupt in that the high profile sports pay for the vast majority of non-revenue sports where there is not commercial interest or chance of financial viability. Perhaps, it is unfair to those that participate in the revenue sports, but to be clear we are not talking about their money being siphoned off by Dr. Evil and Mr. Big. That money is being used to pay for women's soccer and men's gymnastics. If what you are arguing for is the end of those sports being anything more than club sports, than I guess I can respect that. The problem is most people arguing this don't understand the financial realties of college athletics.
 

Holy Man

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
4,263
Reaction score
838
Points
113
Schools invest in young kids in hopes they can grow to be contributors down the road on their sports teams. It isn't right for their to be no obligation on the part of the players.

I get your point, but don't pretend there's only one side to this coin.
With no limits on transfers, it is a cynical rich get richer scheme for high majors and blue bloods as lower teams prep players to move on the higher level teams.

I do think the panic is misplaced now though. This is a unique year with additional eligibility, the pandemic, etc. I don't think any long-term policies have been adopted yet by the NCAA. If what is happening this year repeats itself, we are in for a disaster but I doubt it will.

I don't buy the oppressed laborer argument in the equation. Very few programs take in the kind of revenue that could support salaries on top of scholarships, and diverting more of the pool to players in revenue sports will destroy the non revenue sports and the academic opportunities that go with them. Rules established to benefit the few not only don't help the masses, they likely also hurt them.
 



Ozzy&Ray

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
1,426
Reaction score
458
Points
83
Dick has made millions and millions of dollars from “our great game.” The players basically work 40 hours/week for meal money. (It’s not a free education when you aren’t free to take the classes you want.) It’s a corrupt system and players should have more choices. They are the talent.
They get more than meal money now with the stipends they get, travel allowance, academic support, food 24/7, etc. When they couldn't work due to NCAA rules, that was not right. I had friends in college who were athletes at the U who had literally no spending money to simply go out to eat, go home, etc.

Now they get that and I fail to see how getting a $200k+ education is not a significant value. If the student-athlete does not value that or want that, ok, that's their issue. However, that does not mean it is not a value. I know many kids who are working 30+ hours a week and still taking out loans to get through college. They would love to have the academic support the athletes get to help balance the many hours they are working.

The university is investing in the student-athlete, and there should be something that causes a pause before they just jump ship after taking advantage of the development that university offers.

Just change the rule to let the handful of kids who want to go pro do it. Then, have the rest, like baseball, have to wait three years. The NBA can set a rule, like any business, to require a certain number of years out of high school before they can enter the league. In their own interest it makes sense as fans would get to know the players like we used to with Patrick Ewing, Christian Laettner, etc. Think of Suggs if we watched him play for three years. Fans would want to see where he ended up and watch him in the NBA. Of course, this is balanced by the opportunity that if he didn't want to go to college he could take the risk to go pro right out of high school and play G-League if he doesn't make the NBA roster.

The education is a signficant value, and that should not be lost since 90% of these student-athletes will not play professionally, or will have a very limited career overseas and will need to fall back on their education. In addition, most colleges and universities beyond the P6 are not making significant revenue on their programs.
 

nitramnaed

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2012
Messages
690
Reaction score
358
Points
63
I'm with Dickie on this if all the Gophers in the portal leave. If it's just Gabe, then I'm not.
 

dingo

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
474
Reaction score
3
Points
18
All DI sports, other than football and M & W bball, have always allowed all players the opportunity to transfer one time between four-year schools (ie, not JUCOs) without a sit out. Volleyball, soccer, baseball, softball, etc.

Now they're just making it so that football and bball have the same rule, going forward.
Are you sure about the "one time" that has not been confirmed anywhere that I have seen.
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
25,466
Reaction score
6,133
Points
113
Are you sure about the "one time" that has not been confirmed anywhere that I have seen.
My understanding is they simply wanted to simplify and streamline the language so that football and bball simply complied with the language for the other sports.

Of course coaches, commish's, etc. might've pushed back and perhaps that won't be the final rule.
 




builtbadgers

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
7,630
Reaction score
3,634
Points
113
Dick has made millions and millions of dollars from “our great game.” The players basically work 40 hours/week for meal money. (It’s not a free education when you aren’t free to take the classes you want.) It’s a corrupt system and players should have more choices. They are the talent.
Many schools have the players pick their classes, plus housing, food, travel, apparel all free. There is a reason the players rejoice and celebrate with their family when they get their 500, 000 dollar scholarship. They never need to agree to the offer. It is all laid out very carefully, very thoughtful from all sides.
 

gopheraschells

Active member
Joined
Mar 15, 2009
Messages
567
Reaction score
155
Points
43
They get more than meal money now with the stipends they get, travel allowance, academic support, food 24/7, etc. When they couldn't work due to NCAA rules, that was not right. I had friends in college who were athletes at the U who had literally no spending money to simply go out to eat, go home, etc.

Now they get that and I fail to see how getting a $200k+ education is not a significant value. If the student-athlete does not value that or want that, ok, that's their issue. However, that does not mean it is not a value. I know many kids who are working 30+ hours a week and still taking out loans to get through college. They would love to have the academic support the athletes get to help balance the many hours they are working.

The university is investing in the student-athlete, and there should be something that causes a pause before they just jump ship after taking advantage of the development that university offers.

Just change the rule to let the handful of kids who want to go pro do it. Then, have the rest, like baseball, have to wait three years. The NBA can set a rule, like any business, to require a certain number of years out of high school before they can enter the league. In their own interest it makes sense as fans would get to know the players like we used to with Patrick Ewing, Christian Laettner, etc. Think of Suggs if we watched him play for three years. Fans would want to see where he ended up and watch him in the NBA. Of course, this is balanced by the opportunity that if he didn't want to go to college he could take the risk to go pro right out of high school and play G-League if he doesn't make the NBA roster.

The education is a signficant value, and that should not be lost since 90% of these student-athletes will not play professionally, or will have a very limited career overseas and will need to fall back on their education. In addition, most colleges and universities beyond the P6 are not making significant revenue on their programs.
You nailed it except what gets lost in all of this is it isn't the schools forcing the kids to attend. It is the NFL and NBA who get a free minor league out of it. Yet, they never seem to catch any heat
 

Joined
Oct 15, 2013
Messages
76
Reaction score
66
Points
18
All of the transferring is so shortsighted. Unless you're a top level talent who can make set for life money playing pro ball, college is all about the relationships you build and playing D1 sports turbocharges those relationships.

If Liam Robbins plays 3 or 4 years at one school, he's a legend in the community and is set for life. Now he's going to be somebody people sort of remember playing sports in Des Moines, Minneapolis and Nashville.

I'm not sure what forces are leading these young men to believe that the grass is always greener on the other side but it sure doesn't seem like there are any adults in the room.
 


MNfootballfan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
1,687
Reaction score
82
Points
48
Dick has made millions and millions of dollars from “our great game.” The players basically work 40 hours/week for meal money. (It’s not a free education when you aren’t free to take the classes you want.) It’s a corrupt system and players should have more choices. They are the talent.
Not to mention the athletes get a lifetime of networking opportunities and live their college lives like a rockstar. I really don't see where the players work 40 hours per week. I played a D2 sport. The NCAA limited us to 20 hours per week of actual team activities. Obviously we did film and stuff outside of that, but no way were we close to an additional 20 hours.
 


Pete smith

Active member
Joined
Sep 12, 2017
Messages
941
Reaction score
183
Points
43
Since I didn’t read his tweets not sure what he said. If he said that transfers are o.k. when the coach is fired or leaves on his own then I can buy his idea. Change in coaching staff should be the only reason for being able to transfer without sitting out a year. Not getting enough playing time, then move but sit a year.
 

fan of Ray Williams

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
6,996
Reaction score
906
Points
113
All of the transferring is so shortsighted. Unless you're a top level talent who can make set for life money playing pro ball, college is all about the relationships you build and playing D1 sports turbocharges those relationships.

If Liam Robbins plays 3 or 4 years at one school, he's a legend in the community and is set for life. Now he's going to be somebody people sort of remember playing sports in Des Moines, Minneapolis and Nashville.

I'm not sure what forces are leading these young men to believe that the grass is always greener on the other side but it sure doesn't seem like there are any adults in the room.
And, is his journey over yet? Does he grad transfer next year?
 

jamiche

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
22,646
Reaction score
2,675
Points
113
They get more than meal money now with the stipends they get, travel allowance, academic support, food 24/7, etc. When they couldn't work due to NCAA rules, that was not right. I had friends in college who were athletes at the U who had literally no spending money to simply go out to eat, go home, etc.

Now they get that and I fail to see how getting a $200k+ education is not a significant value. If the student-athlete does not value that or want that, ok, that's their issue. However, that does not mean it is not a value. I know many kids who are working 30+ hours a week and still taking out loans to get through college. They would love to have the academic support the athletes get to help balance the many hours they are working.

The university is investing in the student-athlete, and there should be something that causes a pause before they just jump ship after taking advantage of the development that university offers.

Just change the rule to let the handful of kids who want to go pro do it. Then, have the rest, like baseball, have to wait three years. The NBA can set a rule, like any business, to require a certain number of years out of high school before they can enter the league. In their own interest it makes sense as fans would get to know the players like we used to with Patrick Ewing, Christian Laettner, etc. Think of Suggs if we watched him play for three years. Fans would want to see where he ended up and watch him in the NBA. Of course, this is balanced by the opportunity that if he didn't want to go to college he could take the risk to go pro right out of high school and play G-League if he doesn't make the NBA roster.

The education is a signficant value, and that should not be lost since 90% of these student-athletes will not play professionally, or will have a very limited career overseas and will need to fall back on their education. In addition, most colleges and universities beyond the P6 are not making significant revenue on their programs.
I guess it's just a coincidence that most of the athletes "choose" to major in the same three or four subject areas. Recreation Studies (or something like that) is my favorite. From what I've read, training for your sport (assuming FB or BB) is year round and 40+ hours per week in season. I think the stipend is now $1,500-$2,000/month, which doesn't go very far after rent. I would doubt that all of the meals are covered at the training table, especially out of season. Are all of the health care costs covered in the event of sport related injury or illness? Are the medical costs covered if the athletes injury requires care past eligibility? I've heard not. I'm not sure how much money the university is investing in the individual athlete. Whatever it is, it's a rock star ROI. It seems like most of the money goes into coaches' salaries and facilities.

The point is that the $200K "value" isn't really there if the player doesn't have full access to what the school has to offer outside of athletics. Secondly, Dick Vitale made a lot more money from "our great game" last year than Jalen Suggs or Marcus Carr or Isaiah Ihnen (to name someone who will likely never play professionally). Somehow the pie needs to be divided up differently and more freedom of movement can help change that. The current model of a "free education" as fair compensation remains inequitable.
 

Bad Gopher

A Loner, A Rebel
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
20,608
Reaction score
5,167
Points
113
Even the pro sports leagues don't have unbridled, unlimited free agency. There does need to be some kind of structure and mutual commitment, regardless of how fair and equitable anyone feels the system is toward the labor. Total chaos would be un-followable and unwatchable.
 




Top Bottom