DEs for next year

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I guess they aren't good enough to start for those teams but the big ten sure seems to feel that they are good enough to all-conference players. By the way, whats the deal with ragging on these guys? They are good players. Hopefully, there will be someone to fill WVS shoes next year. It might be Onuwachi but lifting weights doesnt win games.
 

No one was bragging up WVS as some kind of God because he’s from Minnesota you’re just backpedaling from the beating you’re taking. We were talking about who would be the DE’s next year as we lose WVD. You came out of left field and said the following……

“I would take Onwuachi over Vandesteeg any day. WVS was highly overrated after a freshman year in which he benefited from Anthony Montgomery, Daryl Reid and Mark Losli.”

You stand by the statement that you'd take Onwauchi over WVS? I might make that my new sig.

“ CRG, so you are admitting that there are players better than our very own Minnesota born William Vandesteeg? amazing, I thought he was awesome and there is no DE better than him, he was completely dominating that is why USC, Florida, OSU, Texas and everyone else was after him coming out of high school? Does anybody truly believe that Willie would start at any 1 of these Universities? And Karon Riley only played 2 years of college ball at the UofM not 4 as you suggest. Onwuachi has potential and athleticism and you don't need stats to prove you are good.”

Wow, just because I’m bored I think I’ll take the time to dissect this one.

“CRG, so you are admitting that there are players better than our very own Minnesota born William Vandesteeg?”
A: Yes I admit there are lots of players better than WVS, just not Derrick Onwauchi. When did I say otherwise?

“Does anybody truly believe that Willie would start at any 1 of these Universities?”
A: Not sure. What does that have to do with next years Gopher DE’s or Derrick Onwauchi? .

“Karon Riley only played 2 years of college ball at the UofM not 4 as you suggest.
A: You said Riley only had two years to accumulate his 28 sacks and that if he’d had two more years he would have had (lol) 56. In reality he played at SMU for two years and then took a red shirt year while he transferred to the U, so as Maximus (?) posted, unless you’re granting him a 6th and 7th year of eligibility that’s not possible.….What exactly does any of this have to do with you thinking Derrick Onwauchi is better than WVS?

* BTW, if you’d take Derrick Onwuachi any day of the week over WVS I’d like to invite you draft first in my $100 fantasy football league next year.
 

Something tells me Lawrence is the guy or a buddy of the guy WVS had that little dust-up with a year or so back and won't let it slide...

Was he the best defensive player the Gophers have ever had? No. Was he pretty damn good thus year? yes.

DO shown any of the potential to do what WVS has done? Not yet, but I sure hope he does next fall.
Lawrence, you just sound bitter and jaded. You don't need to like him, but you do need to recognize that he did play well this year and was our best D-lineman.

Maybe next fall it will be DO? Who knows....
 

I did recognize that he was OUR best d lineman my point was he will not be greatly missed. Everyone else turned this into if you don't want to sniff willies jock than you are out of your mind. I do stand by my statement that i would take Onwuachi over Vandesteeg any day. Onwuachi came from Nigeria and had never even heard of football until his freshman year of high school. He is raw and unproven as you all jumped on. BUT based on his measurables if I was a coach at the next level I would take him and figure he could be coached up and taught technique and he has a high ceiling. We know what Vandesteeg has done and he has probably reached the ceiling of his talent level. So WVDS was good for us for 2 years and we appreciate his contributions but he has been overly valued. The last time I was kicked off this board was for saying that Mike Sherels was slow and a liability for us but because he was a former walk on who became team captain I was jumped all over. Because someone has stats and works very hard does not mean that they are the greatest players. Now stop posting on this subject and I will let it go also. I want the gophers to be great like everyone else we just differ on who the great players are.


and no I do not know any of the people in the vandesteeg scuffle last year
 

lawrence21 said:
I did recognize that he was OUR best d lineman my point was he will not be greatly missed. Everyone else turned this into if you don't want to sniff willies jock than you are out of your mind. I do stand by my statement that i would take Onwuachi over Vandesteeg any day. Onwuachi came from Nigeria and had never even heard of football until his freshman year of high school. He is raw and unproven as you all jumped on. BUT based on his measurables if I was a coach at the next level I would take him and figure he could be coached up and taught technique and he has a high ceiling.
Click to expand...

Who cares what he does at the next level? This is about the 2009 gopher football season and the player you'd take over a two-time all big ten defensive end has ONE season before he's gone to make even a fraction of the same impact. We all hope he does.

BTW...how many GMs and coaches have lot their jobs by obsessing over "measurables -Ryan Leaf" instead of "immeasurables - Tom Brady"?
 


I do hope Henderson steps up. He had the talent to be a big time player before all of his issues.

As for the Willie debate, there really shouldn't be any at all. He was playing on the same line with Onwuachi for much of the year. Willie clearly came out with better stats while being focused on by the offense. If anything, Onwuachi should have benfited from all the attention being paid to Willie and put up better numbers. That said, I realize that Onwuachi hasn't been playing football for that long and the coaches definitely see some talent. Hopefully that turns into something on the field and he will become a stud, but last season (and through their careers at this point) Willie was the better player by a wide margin.

As far as NFL prospects go, there are tons of guys who were big time in college that never make the pros. Making the pros should have no bearing on how you look at a guys college career.
 

"Now stop posting on this subject and I will let it go also."

This is post of the year material.
 

costa rican

do you have some sort of man crush on WVDS? maybe you should get him some gopher gear from Victoria Secret for Christmas.
 

lawrence, did WVD bang your girlfriend or what? Give it up dude, you are wrong.
 



Weezy

No, apparently Costa Rican is banging WVDS. The new title of this thread is "we all circle jerk to Willie and take turns sucking the sweat from his jock (and we hate all non Caucasian players)"
 

OK this is too long and I am not going to finish reading all this babble but I will make one point. lawrence, you are an idiot. You argue that Karon Riley was a better player than WVDS because he had better stats than Willie. Then you go on to try and prove that DO is better than WVDS and throw out this gem, that completely contradicts your previous argument by the way. "Onwuachi has potential and athleticism and you don't need stats to prove you are good."
 

I get it. WVDS white, Karon Riley and Onwuachi Black.
 

lawrence21 said:
I get it. WVDS white, Karon Riley and Onwuachi Black.
Click to expand...

Reading this thread I just took you as someone that had a different opinion than most on this board. While I would strongly disagree with your opinion of WVS I never thought you were a complete idiot like many others............ UNTIL NOW!!!!!!
 



I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet about WVDS, but I'll throw it out there. WVDS set the school record for career tackles for loss, that's a pretty impressive stat indicating the impact he has had on the Gopher football program.
 

"WVDS set the school record for career tackles for loss"

Just lucky....
 

I'm sure it's because he's white. Most of those tackles were actually by black athletes, he just got the credit for them.
 

lawrence21 said:
I get it. WVDS white, Karon Riley and Onwuachi Black.
Click to expand...

You are an ignorant bigot or a trouble maker...either way, take your idiocy elsewhere.

WVS has had a great year regardless of the color of his skin. Why does one persons success have to demean anothers?

If winning and losing, success and failure didn't matter we wouldn't keep score and have stats. But the idea that second place isn't great or third best is great is rediculous. Further, as long as a player does his best, no matter what the result, they leave the field a winner in their heart...if not usually on the score board.

WVS always left it all on the field, even last year when he played hurt all year.

He would have been a winner to me even if he only had one sack.
 



The funniest part of this thread is when lawrence21 admitted he was kicked off this board before.

The second funniest is lawrence21 trying to accuse others of being jock-sniffers when he uses a players name and number as his moniker.

Maximus, nice comment on the Sherels race thing.
 

Wow, my head is about to explode! Lawrence, you get some sort of trophy for contradicting yourself and making yourself appear foolish while continually digging yourself a hole and making yourself look even more foolish. Let's follow the arc of this post and your contributions:

* sonnygarcia asks an innocent question about Ray Henderson's health and possible contribution next season. You take a shot at him (you don't get out much) then proceed to take a shot at the best defensive lineman the Gophers had this season, proclaiming WVDS overrated and will not be missed because of Derrick Onwuachi.

* when challenged with your statement, you give us Onwuachi's measurables and question WVDS's ability to play in the NFL. . .both of which HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER WVDS WAS A GOOD COLLEGE PLAYER OR NOT!

* you assert that WVDS only had two good bookend seasons-his freshman and senior season. For one, his standout seasons were his sophomore and senior seasons. During his junior season, he was hampered by a broken hand and the entire defense around him struggled. And please show me freshmen defensive lineman who dominate anywhere in the nation, regardless of their recruiting rankings. They are a very rare thing.

* You then compare WVDS' career to Karon Riley who transferred into the "U" and played his junior and senior season here and was a spectacular player for the Gophers. However, you project Riley's career sacks at the "U" to be 58, not taking into account that Riley had two years of college ball and another year of getting stronger while sitting out his transfer season before playing for Minnesota. WVDS was starting and playing for the Gophers during his first three years at the "U". Your logic is the same as projecting a guy who hits a home run on opening day will end up with 162 home runs.

* In your very next response, in a reply to CostaRican, you claim that "you don't need stats to prove you're good". Mind boggling!!! Your whole argument about WVDS has been that he only produced 20 sacks in his career, that Karon Riley produced 29, would have produced 58. . .and now you try saying that stats don't prove you're good-instead I guess we're back to measureables to judge a player? How they look getting off the bus? On their walk into the stadium?

* Your next level of defense is that WVDS would not start at Florida or USC. No one was saying that he would. What is irrefutable is that he was an All Big Ten defensive end who garnered 11.5 sacks this season. That sort of production from your defensive end, regardless of the program they attend or the recruiting rankings or the measureables, equates to a very good college player.

* When your logic and words continue to be easily refuted, you turn to claiming that CostaRican must be banging WVDS. Nice. If I didn't question you before, now your defense that's usually practiced by 8th graders now is firmly giving me an idea of your level of idiocy.

* Finally, the kicker-you claim to be race to be the reason everyone is defending WVDS. Really?????? Wow, and you state that Onwuachi and Riley are despised because they're black. Huh????? No one said anything disparaging about either of those players-in fact, you are the only one in this whole entire thread who said anything disparaging about a player when you called WVDS overrated and said he wouldn't be missed! As best I can tell, when someone describes Onwuachi as unproven, it is because, in actuality, he is unproven.

Not only that, earlier you claim how you were lambasted by posters when you claimed Mike Sherels wasn't any good. So, tell me, were the posters on the board racist and bigoted then, when defending Sherels?

My goodness, talk about ignorant, lazy, and ill-informed. Instead of simply saying, 'I think Onwuachi will step up and won't make us miss WVDS' you take a shot at WVDS and then when your argument is refuted at every turn you rely on 8th grade level insults and finally, a claim of racism, because posters actually have the audacity to express appreciation of WVDS' play for the "U". And keep in mind, no one, NO ONE, disparaged Onwuachi and Riley. Wow. . .we haven't seen such an idiotic display on these boards in quite some time Lawrence. Pathetic work on your part.
 

Coolhand: Can I start the slow clap now? Bravo! A truly thorough fisking. :D

Lawrence:Something for you to ponder..."Ignorance is natural. Stupidity takes commitment." Let no one ever question your commitment!!!
 

LOL, well that pretty much sums up this thread. Thanks coolhandgopher lol.
 

Well lawerence 21 sure did a good job of pissing everyone off. Lets just hope whoever plays DE next year plays well enough to help the team win. Was WVS a good player? Yes. Will anyone on the roster right now be that Good? Don't Know. Does it matter? If the team wins, certainly not.
 

EDIT: Wrong thread. Tapatalk gone wild!
 

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