Depressing...

[dpodoll68]

A significant portion of the Gophers fanbase, both in football and basketball, is just downright terrible. I mean, what more can you expect so far from these guys? Do you want them to somehow come away with 2 wins per game they play? I mean, the best the players can do is face the opponents that are scheduled. Do we get extra credit points if we win by 30 instead of by 10? I mean, does the selection committee look at margin of victory? Let's at least lose a game before some of you get your little panties in a wad. I mean, I'm embarrassed to call some of you fans of my University.

 

[gall0249]

Purdue beat Iona by 1 tonight at home.

Purdue doesn't play their home games in Puerto Rico, so that statement is false.

Actually, some good things for us. Oto is figuring it out. Maverick got valuable minutes. Austin might be our second best player before too long.

This is stretching for "good things". And these are not the things that this team needs to be decent this year. We needed consistent guard play along with Ralph and Rodney figuring it out and being the 2nd and 3rd best players on the team.

I'm in the doom and gloom camp but hoping that I can move out of there. I look at last years' early results and we didn't start last year with any dominant victories over these smaller programs, but still beat UNC and West Virginia.

 

[SelectionSunday]

. ...This was the first game I watched this season and the team looked terrible. Based on tonight I would rank them the worst in the Big 10, or tied with Penn State, as the worst team.

Wow, and with all our new players in the process of blending in I was feeling good about the Gophers (warts, and all) being 3-0 after leaving the building last night. Shame on me. I expect the Gophers to look like world-beaters 3 games into the season (tongue in cheek). Let's just call it a season and count the days until Twins spring training.

Out of curisoity, how many of the other Big Ten teams have you seen play this year? Actually seen play, with your own eyes, not judge them by what you read in the papers or in the blogosphere? You've already decided the Gophers are not capable of anything better than 11th place?

I consider myself someone who tries to watch (on the boob tube) as many different teams as I can, but even so there are 5 B1G teams that I have not seen play a single second. ... Iowa, Michigan, Penn State, Purdue & Wisconsin. And there are 5 others (Illinois, Indiana, Nebraska, Northwestern, Ohio State) for which I've only had a brief sampling. Nowhere near enough information to gauge how the Gophers stack up with the rest of the league to this point. The only conclusions I've come to are (1) the Gophers are likely to finish behind Ohio State & Michigan State and (2) after seeing the Gophers play 3 times in person (+ a meaningless exhibition game) I think they have a lot of work to do, but there is some depth, a lot of room to grow & there are some pieces in place to be a solid B1G squad.

Who knows, you may be correct, but I'm not looking at the Gophers and thinking, "Wow, we're going to be the worst team in the B1G", I'm thinking, "Man, after losing 10 of 11 (or whatever it was) to end last season, I'm glad we're 3-0 and haven't slipped up anywhere."

 

[From the Barn]

meanwhile, a ranked michigan team and their allegedly exciting offense beat Western Illinois (which won 7 games last year thank you very much) by 4 points, at home, and hasn't scored more than 64 points in a game. A dreadful LSU team almost knocked off Northwestern. Purdue hasn't looked good at all. Michigan State didn't look very good in either of their losses.

By the logic of some, every B1G is going to finish 0-18.

 

[Holy Man]

Not a great performance last night, but I am with Hodger. I thought there was plenty to feel decent about. This is only second live viewing, but I though Austin was solid, Andre hit some shots and ran the team reasonably well, and our main guy hit his free throws. Oto showed flashes of being a good shooter and knowing what is going on on the floor. The d didn't give up a lot of uncontested threes either. There is plenty to work on, but some good to see as well. It is still November. I am not ready to give up, yet.

Beej is right, the biggest factor in the depressing environment is the start time. Typical people who have jobs havea hard time making it by 6:00. The light early crowd did give me a brush with greatness in a contact with Jim Jackson.

 

[Gopher Warrior]

There's a lot of praise being poured on the Gophers' defense in this thread... I thought for the most part it was terrible.

These kids are really struggling with positioning, communication, just understanding where to be and what to do... if it doesn't improve significantly (and it will improve -- how much, though?) Minnesota will pay for their bad defense.

Fairfield is a poor shooting team. They also had some tough misses last night, especially Rakim... Needham is an interesting player. All the moxy in the world, but his shooting continues to be awful... it's strange.

Anyway, it hasn't shown up in the stats - yet - but Minnesota's defensive play is not good right now. Fortunately for them, the Stags' shooting stinks.

 

[Moonlight]

Anyone see the Illinois/Lipscomb game? Lots of empty seats in Champagne. MN fans apparently aren't the only ones bored with the preseason.

 

[GoGoGophers]

I wonder what the barn will look like next year with a likely down team, the premium seating plan and the usual insulting schedule. It would really piss me off if they decide to "reward" the season ticket holders next year, who will essentially be paying double, by actually coming up with an attractive non conference home schedule. That would be the height of cynicism.

I'm confused. You're b!tching about the "usual insulting schedule" and in the next breath state that you will be pissed if they have an attractive non-con home schedule next year?

Are the voices in your head arguing again or is the a word missing from that second sentence?

 

[jovs]

There's a lot of praise being poured on the Gophers' defense in this thread... I thought for the most part it was terrible.

These kids are really struggling with positioning, communication, just understanding where to be and what to do... if it doesn't improve significantly (and it will improve -- how much, though?) Minnesota will pay for their bad defense.

Fairfield is a poor shooting team. They also had some tough misses last night, especially Rakim... Needham is an interesting player. All the moxy in the world, but his shooting continues to be awful... it's strange.

Anyway, it hasn't shown up in the stats - yet - but Minnesota's defensive play is not good right now. Fortunately for them, the Stags' shooting stinks.

I disagree completely, from what I have seen Tubby's teams pressure the ball, sometimes a little to agressively and people end up getting open. I think this team is going to be better defensively because it is by far the most athletic team he has had at Minnesota. Alot of inexperience but boy the potential and energy is great.

 

[brucekaupa]

Maybe some of the more "veteran" gopher bball fans can correct me if I'm wrong, but has the Tubby/Maturi combination completely rid the barn of all excitement with these ridiculous non-conference schedules?
This is a joke.

No, it's the Minnesota norm.

For those who have never seen it, Eric Thrall has a nice little site with complete Gopher BB history including records, scores and schedules by year. http://ericthrall.com/gophers/basketball/

Take a look at the non-conference home schedules for Haskins & Dutch and you'll see pretty much the same thing with the occasional home matchup against a good team sprinkled in.

It appears that the number of games you could play in a season was expanded over time. Musselman's '74-'75 team, for instance, had only 8 non-conference games, 2 of which were the old Pillsbury Classic.

 

[From the Barn]

Strange that the human mind only remembers interesting things, and not blow out wins against corpus christie

 

[Mulligan]

Purdue doesn't play their home games in Puerto Rico, so that statement is false.



This is stretching for "good things". And these are not the things that this team needs to be decent this year. We needed consistent guard play along with Ralph and Rodney figuring it out and being the 2nd and 3rd best players on the team.

I'm in the doom and gloom camp but hoping that I can move out of there. I look at last years' early results and we didn't start last year with any dominant victories over these smaller programs, but still beat UNC and West Virginia.

Saw the game was in Puerto Rico but was too lazy to go back. My bad.

Not stretching for good things, and I do realize the importance of Ralph and Rodney. You do realize our two most experienced guards are 3 games into their second season and didn't get the major minutes last year? And those were "good things"; not much of a stretch. We need contributions from players like Oto, Mav, and Austin so it was nice to see positive things from all three. It was a sloppy game, but when I got home and looked, I couldn't believe all of the bitching on this and another thread. It just gets old with the constant negativity. I get that the last two years have really been frustrating, but I wish all of the people who know basketball better than Tubby would at least give the guy a chance before they also declare this season a failure.

 

[maliksealy]

Lots of teams struggle at this time of year. Tonight's attendance was a function of start time- 6:00 pm is horrid. But I will agree that the crowds have not been into it. I think people buy into identities. A team identity- ie high scoring, or run and gun or agressive defense and physical play is one component. But you also have to have players that capture the fans' imagination. Trevor does that but few others on the Gophers have developed that connection that gets people excited. Austin Hollins is coming along. Rodney will tease with the dunks, but he and Ralph often blend in with the scenery and in fact Ralph is sort of the opposite of what most fans get excited about. Andre Holllins and Chip Armelin are two guys that could develop identities and I would argue that this team will be pretty good if Andre develops quickly and begins to do all the things he can do.

This may be one of the toughest teams I have ever seen in Gopher uniforms to figure out. No clue where we will finish or how this plays out. 3rd to 10th are all in play.

3rd??? How in the hell would we ever finish 3rd?? We are worse than last year, no question about it. Ralph has regressed, we lost our best shooter, and it appears no one can fill any voids. I say we finish 8-10th and I'm generally an optimist. The truth hurts.

 

[howeda7]

Good lord, a lot of complaining here. We've played 3 games, none of which were against truly awful teams and we won them all by double digits. Everyone needs to chill. Tubby Smith teams will never be pretty to watch on offense, but that doesn't mean they can't win.

 

[MNGreatest]

I am typically a bit skeptical, but the good thing about basketball is that it doesn't take much to get the train rolling. Starting 3-0 and not even playing good doing it is actually a good sign if you think of it. A few key wins, or winning streaks can build a lot of confidence in teams and players. It will be interesting to see how the Big 10 season goes, because as far as I know the Big 10 is pretty down this year. There is #3 Ohio State. They lost Lighty, and Diebler, they return Craft and senior Buford. Their main guy is obviously All-American Sullinger. They will be tough because some key guys returning, by I see no reason why we can't compete. Then there is #13 Wisconsin. They graduated 3 starters from last year. Jon Leuer, Nankivil, and Tim Jarmutz. Playing an early role this year is sophomore Brust with good shooting. Other than that they obviously have All-American Jordan Taylor, but I mean who after that? Ginger Brusowitz? Ryan Evans? These guys will have to step up to bigger roles this year, and I don't see why the Gophs can't beat them. Our length and Athleticism will be problems for teams, as long we continue to extend our defense and get hands/deflections in the passing lanes. Michigan #17 I think is a bit overrated, and we will see when they play #10 Memphis, it's a big game for Michigan. Who do they have? Hardaway Jr? Novak? and yes they did just squeak out a win vs. Western Michigan. They're okay, but I think they are overrated. After that, early looks at Michigan State and Indiana look good, and there's Purdue. State lost key guys but they look like they are going to pretty good. Purdue got back Hummel but I feel he is washed up. I think the Big ten is pretty balanced this year so its realistic to put us finishing in the 3-7 range but they need to start playing more cohesive, and figure out who our substitutions will be. Like they also say in Basketball, Non-Conference is a season of its own, Conference is the second season, and post season is the third. Were gonna have to learn our personality in our non conference and see who wants minutes for the Big 10 season.

 

[bga1]

3rd??? How in the hell would we ever finish 3rd?? We are worse than last year, no question about it. Ralph has regressed, we lost our best shooter, and it appears no one can fill any voids. I say we finish 8-10th and I'm generally an optimist. The truth hurts.

"Worse" than last year? Which club are you comparing this squad to? The one pre-Nolen injury and DJ exit?

Let's look at the situation pre-Nolen injury
DJ was not great - I'd take Holllins over what he was giving us - +1 for this year
Nolen was very good but offered no outside threat - still advantage last year
Rodney is slightly improved over last year - advantage this year
Ralph is Ralph is Ralph is Ralph - push
Mbakwe is better by far than last year- just free throws alone are a big improvement
The loss of Hoff is a big deal - advantage last year
Our depth is better this year and our team defense is better this year so far

The big question is whether or not some combo of the new guys (Andre, Welch, Oto can replace the shooting of Hoff and the defense and ball handling of Nolen) It's not going to be a perfect swap but the sum of the parts could possibly do it.

Overall I'd give a slight advantage to the pre-Nolen- Joseph losses team of last year- but not by a huge margin and there is still plenty of room for improvement with the youth.

The post Nolen team? No contest- we are better this year. Overall the Big Ten just is not as good as last year- thus- if everythign goes our way- yeah- 3rd is possible.

 

[scher215]

"Worse" than last year? Which club are you comparing this squad to? The one pre-Nolen injury and DJ exit?

Let's look at the situation pre-Nolen injury
DJ was not great - I'd take Holllins over what he was giving us - +1 for this year
Nolen was very good but offered no outside threat - still advantage last year
Rodney is slightly improved over last year - advantage this year
Ralph is Ralph is Ralph is Ralph - push
Mbakwe is better by far than last year- just free throws alone are a big improvement
The loss of Hoff is a big deal - advantage last year
Our depth is better this year and our team defense is better this year so far

The big question is whether or not some combo of the new guys (Andre, Welch, Oto can replace the shooting of Hoff and the defense and ball handling of Nolen) It's not going to be a perfect swap but the sum of the parts could possibly do it.

Overall I'd give a slight advantage to the pre-Nolen- Joseph losses team of last year- but not by a huge margin and there is still plenty of room for improvement with the youth.

The post Nolen team? No contest- we are better this year. Overall the Big Ten just is not as good as last year- thus- if everythign goes our way- yeah- 3rd is possible.

Keep in mind devoe gave us 0 pre nolen injury (for the most part) he was suspended the majority of the season before transferring.

 

[bga1]

Keep in mind devoe gave us 0 pre nolen injury (for the most part) he was suspended the majority of the season before transferring.

He did come back for a bit and led us in scoring three times during his short stint. The thing we need to look for is that somehow the sum of this years parts being better than last year's. Remember that -while we had a strong team- Nolen was not a good shooter, and Joseph and Hoff were not good defenders. So there is thst hope of developing better overall team play as the year develops. At this same time last year we had more definition to us, more "star power" and we had the ability to go out and beat West Virginia and NC-probably not something we could do now. Perhaps later this year.....

 

[SelectionSunday]

. ... At this same time last year we had more definition to us, more "star power" and we had the ability to go out and beat West Virginia and NC, probably not something we could do now. Perhaps later this year.....

If it makes anyone feel better about the Gophers, I think we could beat West Virginia right now. North Carolina? Not so much.

Still tough to swallow that a team with wins over both North Carolina & West Virginia couldn't do enough to earn a NCAA bid. Ouch. I'm still more depressed about that than I am about the Gophers' "depressing" 3-0 start.

Now if the Gophers in any way, shape or form struggle with Mount St. Mary's on Monday, then I'll be depressed. Far & away likely to be the biggest cupcake on the Gophers' schedule.

 

[scools12]

Good lord, a lot of complaining here. We've played 3 games, none of which were against truly awful teams and we won them all by double digits. Everyone needs to chill. Tubby Smith teams will never be pretty to watch on offense, but that doesn't mean they can't win.

agree with the offense part. this team will need to rely on their defense to win games. I don't see this team being all that efficent in the half-court. imagine we will see a lot of these 67-57 type of games.

 

[Hoop33]

I'm no great basketball mind -

But, I watched most of the game last night and it appeared that Tubby was doing a lot of experimenting. A lot of different combinations of players and plays. I wouldn't put any weight on this game, or the ones prior to it. I'll wait to see what they do in the Old Spice Classic before branding the team with any expectations for this season. Sure was nice to see Austin Hollins be assertive last night though.

 

[littlebigboy]

Where is RALPH? What do he or his dad have on Tubby.?? Either start playing or put his but on the bench for good!

 

[Monty519]

It seems like Ralph is taking quite a beating for some reason on these forums. I don't feel like he's been playing all that poorly. I mean, he's not getting a whole lot of touches, so it's not like he's gonna be putting up a lot of points right now. He's still getting his blocks. His rebounding could be better, but that's always been the case. I guess I don't see 9/6/4.5 as THAT bad, especially considering we have no other options. He also seems to be our most consistent jump shooter lol.

 

[andy]

barn

With a few exceptions, Williams Arena has had a dead atmosphere for a long time. No comparison to the arenas of many D-I schools with similar records of success in the last 15 years.

But I don't want to get into the blame game. Yea I know, the hand-sitters pay Tubby's salary and the students should stay buried in the end-zone section because they are annoying. Blah, blah, blah.

 

[gopherfan3]

I can't fault Esposito. The schedule may be filled with mid majors but a lot of these mid majors are projected to win their conferences and make the field of 68, which boosts the resume. This years Old Spice classic may not have a strong field but he's already got us set to play in the Battle 4 Atlantis (rumored schools include Louisville n Duke) next year and the Puerto Rico Tip Off in 2013. USC and Virginia Tech aren't slouches either..

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

I am fine with playing the Southwest Wisconsin Polytechnic High School for the Blind or whoever some of these clowns we play out of conference are so long as we win all of those games, schedule a couple of big conference opponents, get into an early season tournament with real teams, and play well in conference.

 

[GoldInDirt]

So we played great defense but looked bad on offense. That equates to "terrible"? I think our defense is going to keep us in a lot of games this year.

I hope you're right that our defense keeps us in games. We didn't seem to give up as many three pointers as last year, but Fairfield also couldn't shoot last night. I thought we panicked when they got the ball down low and the whole team collapsed leaving shooters open because we didn't have confidence or discipline with just rotating over one person to defend the ball. We gave up at least 2 or 3 coast-to-coast layups in the second half. I agree the defense wasn't terrible and it's early in the season, but I wouldn't call the defensive effort good.

The offense was terrible, terrible, terrible. So I think that overbalances the average defensive effort. We don't have a leader on offense at a guard position. Ralph is a senior and he still doesn't have any solid moves. He just doesn't know what to do with the ball. There are a lot of young players at the guard position and that hurts the most and this is early in the season. But I don't recall any run where we executed well by making good passes and moving away from the ball, that's what disturbed me most - the lack of any good offensive streak.

 

[GoldInDirt]

Lots of teams struggle at this time of year. Tonight's attendance was a function of start time- 6:00 pm is horrid. But I will agree that the crowds have not been into it. I think people buy into identities. A team identity- ie high scoring, or run and gun or agressive defense and physical play is one component. But you also have to have players that capture the fans' imagination. Trevor does that but few others on the Gophers have developed that connection that gets people excited. Austin Hollins is coming along. Rodney will tease with the dunks, but he and Ralph often blend in with the scenery and in fact Ralph is sort of the opposite of what most fans get excited about. Andre Holllins and Chip Armelin are two guys that could develop identities and I would argue that this team will be pretty good if Andre develops quickly and begins to do all the things he can do.

This may be one of the toughest teams I have ever seen in Gopher uniforms to figure out. No clue where we will finish or how this plays out. 3rd to 10th are all in play.

I agree with your post and most of your points.. While it's early in the season and every team is trying to jell, I've had season tickets for 20 years and it was as tough of a game as I recall watching from an execution position. I hope to be proven wrong, but I would be very surprised if this team can go 0.500 in the conference unless things change radically.

 

[GoldInDirt]

A significant portion of the Gophers fanbase, both in football and basketball, is just downright terrible. I mean, what more can you expect so far from these guys? Do you want them to somehow come away with 2 wins per game they play? I mean, the best the players can do is face the opponents that are scheduled. Do we get extra credit points if we win by 30 instead of by 10? I mean, does the selection committee look at margin of victory? Let's at least lose a game before some of you get your little panties in a wad. I mean, I'm embarrassed to call some of you fans of my University.

I expect them to understand how to run the offense, and when they get the ball inside to know what to do with it (make a move or kick it out). I expect them (and myself whenever I'm playing) to play smart and hard and live up to potential. I'm happier with a loss that I played well in than a win that I played terribly. I didn't have high hopes or expectations for the football team, but I do have higher expectations for a basketball team to run an offensive against an inferior team. I've kept quiet about displeasure with meeting expectations for the basketball team under Tubby's watch, but my frustration levels continue to grow as we've yet realized our potential with Tubby (excluding his first season where he absolutely turned around a poor performing Monson team). My frustrations aren't as much about a single bad performance, but rather the lack of good performances overall. I will always wear my gold and cheer for 3rd downs and sign the rouser, but I reserve the right to get frustrated once in a while.

 

[GoldInDirt]

Wow, and with all our new players in the process of blending in I was feeling good about the Gophers (warts, and all) being 3-0 after leaving the building last night. Shame on me. I expect the Gophers to look like world-beaters 3 games into the season (tongue in cheek). Let's just call it a season and count the days until Twins spring training.

Out of curisoity, how many of the other Big Ten teams have you seen play this year? Actually seen play, with your own eyes, not judge them by what you read in the papers or in the blogosphere? You've already decided the Gophers are not capable of anything better than 11th place?

I consider myself someone who tries to watch (on the boob tube) as many different teams as I can, but even so there are 5 B1G teams that I have not seen play a single second. ... Iowa, Michigan, Penn State, Purdue & Wisconsin. And there are 5 others (Illinois, Indiana, Nebraska, Northwestern, Ohio State) for which I've only had a brief sampling. Nowhere near enough information to gauge how the Gophers stack up with the rest of the league to this point. The only conclusions I've come to are (1) the Gophers are likely to finish behind Ohio State & Michigan State and (2) after seeing the Gophers play 3 times in person (+ a meaningless exhibition game) I think they have a lot of work to do, but there is some depth, a lot of room to grow & there are some pieces in place to be a solid B1G squad.

Who knows, you may be correct, but I'm not looking at the Gophers and thinking, "Wow, we're going to be the worst team in the B1G", I'm thinking, "Man, after losing 10 of 11 (or whatever it was) to end last season, I'm glad we're 3-0 and haven't slipped up anywhere."

My perception and hopefully incorrect early prediction on final standings is based on historical basketball watching, not from comparing ourselves to other teams this year. I've watched zero basketball and football games this season other than the Gophers and that's due to working 50 hours a week, going to CSOM at night, and working 20 to 30 hours a week on our new house. I'll give you I don't know the quality of play from other teams, but I'm just frustrated that we haven't shown a streak of real good basketball in a game for a while. The complete void of leadership at the guard level, likely due to lack of age/experience, gives me the most pessimism. I don't see anyone stepping up as a high quality, or even good, Big 10 point guard for a while. It's hard to use Trevor well when we can't spread the defense and get him in a good position and get him the ball. I agree with your assessment that we're lucky to be 3-0. But the fact that I think we're lucky to be 3-0 at this point isn't reassuring.