Deep Dive of Redzone Playcalling against EMU

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tjgopher said:
Not a big deal, the Gophers didn't run any plays in the Red Zone on the drive that ended in an interception. The ball was intercepted in the Red Zone, but the line of scrimmage was the NEB 24.

We were technically 2-for-2 in the Red Zone with a FG and a TD.
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Yeah, I'm an idiot because when I looked at it initially I had the 25 in my head as opposed to the 20 for the redzone.

That cut down the number of redzone plays to just the one main series where we had the TD and one other play that lost 5 yards.

Edited the original post.
 

RememberMurray said:
You remember those plays that didn't work?

Well, we clearly should have run different plays.

More specifically, we should have run plays that would have worked.
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Maybe that’s what the guy meant when he mentioned the back lining up two or three yards deeper than normal and taking a handoff six yards deep. I know you appreciate Fleck’s tricks to run more clock but that’s a bit extreme.
 

Otis said:
Taylor probably scores if he doesn’t slip on that final drive.

In fact he slipped twice! Do the field maintainers put too much of the rubber dirt on the field? You see it flying up all the time. Too much of it makes the turf slippery.

In any case, those plays called score three touchdowns with Mo. Taylor and Tyler, just aren’t go get me 3 tough yards kind of backs. Although Taylor consistently hit those holes hard when he didn’t slip. He just doesn’t have the size, yet.

I’m more wondering where is the Cole Kramer wildcat look on short yardage? That look alone would help keep the defense guessing.
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I don’t think he slipped he just kinda lost his balance and fell over while making a cut both times.
 

I've bet the Under in both of the first two games because I not-so-boldly predicted prior to the season, with a relatively inexperienced AK8 and new play-callers, that the Gophers would be settling for a lot of FG attempts early in the season.

Talent-wise, there's not a doubt in my mind that the Gophers can play with UNC, but until the show they can finish drives more consistently, I'm worried about them winning games like this where they are evenly matched, or undermatched.
 

matt said:
- 2nd pass: see below.

This is a terrible play design for an obvious passing situation. 2 WRs run routes into 6 DBs and both TEs block the entire play. Below, AK looks at his first read, DJ9, and sees 2-3 defenders in his vicinity.

View attachment 26919

AK looks at his 2nd (and only other) read, LB0, who is also double/triple covered. Knowing he has nothing to lose on 3rd down, AK rifles it in there and gives LB0 a chance. Both TEs (circled in red) are looking for someone to block the entire play.

View attachment 26920
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As I noted in the OL Grade thread, they did this more than once during the game. It really doesn't make any sense, especially since EMU wasn't getting much pressure because our OL was providing good protection.
But, they have done this type of thing since Fleck has been here and I believe it is to limit the amount of reading the QB has to do.
Even in this game when BSF ran the wheel route in the first half where the DB was called for pass interference, the two WR on the play just ran routes down the field, never really looking back. It gave AK one read and throw.
 


I just heard on the Pair and a Spare podcast that PJ was overruling his OC and forcing the team to run down there because he’s trying to teach them how to run it home. They weren’t overly concerned about losing to Eastern Michigan and were working on some things.
 

Dakota2 said:
Maybe that’s what the guy meant when he mentioned the back lining up two or three yards deeper than normal and taking a handoff six yards deep. I know you appreciate Fleck’s tricks to run more clock but that’s a bit extreme.
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If I was granted one magical football wish, I would love to watch just one Gopher football game during which all of Gopher Hole's frustrated 'offensive coordinators' got to call every one of the team's offensive plays, via a vote by a Gopher Hole committee.

It would be even better if I was allowed to eavesdrop on the committee debate/discussion before each play call.

Now that would be entertaining!
 

RememberMurray said:
If I was granted one magical football wish, I would love to watch just one Gopher football game during which all of Gopher Hole's frustrated 'offensive coordinators' got to call every one of the team's offensive plays, via a vote by a Gopher Hole committee.

It would be even better if I was allowed to eavesdrop on the committee debate/discussion before each play call.

Now that would be entertaining!
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If I had but one magical football wish it would be to beat Ohio State. But you I seldom think alike.
 

RememberMurray said:
If I was granted one magical football wish, I would love to watch just one Gopher football game during which all of Gopher Hole's frustrated 'offensive coordinators' got to call every one of the team's offensive plays, via a vote by a Gopher Hole committee.

It would be even better if I was allowed to eavesdrop on the committee debate/discussion before each play call.

Now that would be entertaining!
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That would be awesome. Online voting portal, charge a nominal fee to keep the riffraff out. Jet sweep or 50 yard bomb for seventy plays. Flea flicker or bust.
 



Dakota2 said:
If I had but one magical football wish it would be to beat Ohio State. But you I seldom think alike.
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I wouldn't waste my one, magical wish on something that has already happened multiple times and definitely will happen again.

But, as you said, you and I do not agree very often.

Here's a thought: maybe the Gophers would have a better chance of beating Ohio State this season if the soon-to-be-formed Gopher Hole Committee of Amateur Offensive Coordinators got to call the plays for the first time on Saturday, November 18, 2023 at Ohio Stadium.
 
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Pompous Elitist said:
That would be awesome. Online voting portal, charge a nominal fee to keep the riffraff out. Jet sweep or 50 yard bomb for seventy plays. Flea flicker or bust.
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It always worked on the playground, and in Madden!

I wonder how many times per game the Committee would dial up a 70-yard pass attempt.
 

RememberMurray said:
It always worked on the playground, and in Madden!

I wonder how many times per game the Committee would dial up a 70-yard pass attempt.
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Do you think maybe the committee could do better than 3 TDs in 8 red zone possessions? One of which took a highlight real catch on 4th down? Another 4th down that turned the ball over? Pass plays featuring TWO receivers even running routes, with two tight ends camped out at the line of scrimmage looking for someone to block?

Everyone, even Fleck, recognizes how bad the Gophers have been converting opportunities into points.

Everyone but Murray, who is wiser than all that...while making nonsensical jokes about 70 yard passes in a thread about red zone possessions.
 

USAF said:
Do you think maybe the committee could do better than 3 TDs in 8 red zone possessions? One of which took a highlight real catch on 4th down? Another 4th down that turned the ball over? Pass plays featuring TWO receivers even running routes, with two tight ends camped out at the line of scrimmage looking for someone to block?

Everyone, even Fleck, recognizes how bad the Gophers have been converting opportunities into points.

Everyone but Murray, who is wiser than all that...while making nonsensical jokes about 70 yard passes in a thread about red zone possessions.
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Take a nap. Or don't drink during the day.
 





RememberMurray said:
I wouldn't waste my one, magical wish on something that has already happened multiple times and definitely will happen again.

But, as you said, you and I do not agree very often.

Here's a thought: maybe the Gophers would have a better chance of beating Ohio State this season if the soon-to-be-formed Gopher Hole Committee of Amateur Offensive Coordinators got to call the plays for the first time on Saturday, November 18, 2023 at Ohio Stadium.
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I might agree if you were not the Committee of One. By the way, I have made zero posts about this year’s play calling. That ended when the job was taken out of Stanford’s hands late in the 2021 season.
 

RememberMurray said:
It always worked on the playground, and in Madden!

I wonder how many times per game the Committee would dial up a 70-yard pass attempt.
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Just like Fleck and Harbaugh will do— enough to keep the defense thinking about it.
 


USAF said:
Do you think maybe the committee could do better than 3 TDs in 8 red zone possessions? One of which took a highlight real catch on 4th down? Another 4th down that turned the ball over? Pass plays featuring TWO receivers even running routes, with two tight ends camped out at the line of scrimmage looking for someone to block?

Everyone, even Fleck, recognizes how bad the Gophers have been converting opportunities into points.

Everyone but Murray, who is wiser than all that...while making nonsensical jokes about 70 yard passes in a thread about red zone possessions.
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"Even Fleck"? Does that mean he was one of the last to notice the problem?

You asked me if I think the Committee "could do better". Let's just say I have some grave doubts. But I admire your self-confidence!

Also, anyone who wants to be offensive coordinator — even a make-believe one — had better be prepared for criticism and second-guessing. It seems like it always comes with the job title. You can't afford to be thin-skinned. So don't get mad if someone pokes a little gentle fun.
 

Dakota2 said:
I might agree if you were not the Committee of One. By the way, I have made zero posts about this year’s play calling. That ended when the job was taken out of Stanford’s hands late in the 2021 season.
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No, I'm the one here who wouldn't want to be on the Committee (or to be "the" Committee). The reason I wouldn't want to is because I am pretty sure the professionals can do the play-calling job better than I could... so I defer to them. That's the whole point, really.

It's sort of like debating who should be the starting QB. I say: let the coaches make that call, because they're better-qualified than I am. Others here feel differently; they think they know better than the coaches. They have a right to their opinion. I have a right to doubt that they know better than the coaches.
 
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SeaBee_Gopher said:
I just heard on the Pair and a Spare podcast that PJ was overruling his OC and forcing the team to run down there because he’s trying to teach them how to run it home. They weren’t overly concerned about losing to Eastern Michigan and were working on some things.
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Yes, I heard that too.

Well, the Gophers didn't lose and they did run the ball significantly better. They may also have made progress in establishing the right attitude in the run game. And they discovered they still have some things to work on in that area, especially in short yardage and goal line situations. And Tyler now knows he needs to work on ball security.
 
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SeaBee_Gopher said:
I just heard on the Pair and a Spare podcast that PJ was overruling his OC and forcing the team to run down there because he’s trying to teach them how to run it home. They weren’t overly concerned about losing to Eastern Michigan and were working on some things.
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Yeah. Ryan Burns said Fleck seemed a little testy in the post-game press conference when asked about the lack of explosive plays. Burns also said Fleck was telling Taylor that he (taylor) needed to run with a lower pad level and hit the hole harder on short-yardage plays, including goal-line plays.

based on what Burns said, I will also be looking to see if there are any changes in the O-Line - either starters or subs rotating in.
 

RememberMurray said:
No, I'm the one here who wouldn't want to be on the Committee (or to be "the" Committee). The reason I wouldn't want to is because I am pretty sure the professionals can do the play-calling job better than I could... so I defer to them. That's the whole point, really.

It's sort of like debating who should be the starting QB. I say: let the coaches make that call, because they're better-qualified than I am. Others here feel differently; they think they know better than the coaches. They have a right to their opinion. I have a right to doubt that they know better than the coaches.
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In this you are absolutely correct. The coaches are best able to make game plans, call plays, and select QBs. Everyone here actually knows that.

So why spend so much time railing against opinions on a message board?
 

Dakota2 said:
In this you are absolutely correct. The coaches are best able to make game plans, call plays, and select QBs. Everyone here actually knows that.

So why spend so much time railing against opinions on a message board?
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"Railing"? There has been no railing.

Smiling, in a bemused way with the occasional chuckle and a gentle, light-hearted barb or two posted on Gopher Hole.

As I said earlier, if an aspiring (imaginary) offensive coordinator can't take a little ribbing, he or she would never survive the criticism and second-guessing that comes with being a real play-caller.
 

I hate the phrase "deep dive." It's as abhorrent as "housekeeping items," "let's unpack," and "be intentional." Disgusting and vomit-inducing.
 

RememberMurray said:
"Railing"? There has been no railing.

Smiling, in a bemused way with the occasional chuckle and a gentle, light-hearted barb or two posted on Gopher Hole.

As I said earlier, if an aspiring (imaginary) offensive coordinator can't take a little ribbing, he or she would never survive the criticism and second-guessing that comes with being a real play-caller.
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Nah, railing for years. (A polite term for near-derangement).
 


RememberMurray said:
Well, hey...

Buy a big stack of index cards and start brainstorming, guys. Andy Reid once actually ran a play that was drawn up by a janitor...

www.youtube.com

Andy Reid Once Ran A Play A Janitor Drew Up

www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
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I bet we could do better than having Kramer lob up a hand grenade on 1st down

Or are you so much smarter than the rest of us youre gonna defend that too?

51 pts in 3 games.
 

USAF said:
I bet we could do better than having Kramer lob up a hand grenade on 1st down

Or are you so much smarter than the rest of us youre gonna defend that too?

51 pts in 3 games.
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That’s on Kramer. Not sure why people are blaming the play call. You should be able to still call pass plays with a back up qb.
 

btowngopher said:
That’s on Kramer. Not sure why people are blaming the play call. You should be able to still call pass plays with a back up qb.
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In this case, it isn't on Kramer. He should not have had the option to throw, particularly considering that we were marching to potentially tie the game, our running game was carving them up, and it seemed likely that AK would be back on the field in short order. With where we were on the field (UNC ~30) even 3 straight RUTM likely nets us a FG at minimum, which is obviously far better than effectively ending the game with a pick.

Shame on Harbaugh for even giving Kramer the option, and even more shame on Fleck for not saying, "What the actual fuck are you doing???" and ordering runs only for as long as 12 was on the field. Given the game context and the fact that we tend to run 65-70% of the time under Fleck, it was one of the most bizarrely terrible decisions I've seen in any sport at any level. Many of us have railed over the Fleck years that we don't have enough balance in our offense, and THERE, on 1st and 10, in their end of the field, is where you choose to put the ball in the air??? I mean, my God - it's almost as if Harbaugh has no idea what he's doing.
 

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