Daquein McNeil

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XMan

XMan

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Daquein McNeil has seen a little more playing time the past month (injury to Adnre / Little Dre in early fould trouble, etc.). Anyway, it has been interesting seeing him develop. To me, it seems like he has come into games when we needed him, hasn't really set the world on fire, but doesn't make major errors. He has done a decent job coming in to spell a player and help move things along. I am wondering what others think about his potential? (especially going into next season)
 

XMan said:
Daquein McNeil has seen a little more playing time the past month (injury to Adnre / Little Dre in early fould trouble, etc.). Anyway, it has been interesting seeing him develop. To me, it seems like he has come into games when we needed him, hasn't really set the world on fire, but doesn't make major errors. He has done a decent job coming in to spell a player and help move things along. I am wondering what others think about his potential? (especially going into next season)
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I think he can be a player. He needs to work on his offense in the off-season, but I don't see any reason why he cannot replace Austin Hollins without the team losing a step if McNeil works hard.
 

Have to think that the team will be much better next year.

Martin, Morris, Mason plus at least one of the other players being recruited > A. Hollins, Smith, Mav

This has to be true based on the hope that both guards will come in and get some playing time and Martin will be an improvement on every player we have coming back at the 4 spot.

Also four returning starters (even though you got to think Martin will beat out the other 4's) along with improvements in McNeil and hopefully Buggs and the team will have much more depth.

I like McNeil and I really hope he works hard over the summer.
 

He's a really hard player to gauge for me. I like that as a true freshman he doesn't hurt the team out on the court and also doesn't appear to get rattled by playing in big games. McNeil had a rebound during the first half of the Ohio State game that was unlike anything we've seen from our guards outside of lil Dre, he just went up aggressively and snagged the ball at its highest point in traffic. His defense appears to be his strength right now and he does seem to bother opposing ball handlers even if he's not forcing many turnovers.

On the offensive end, I am a little bit less encouraged. I have a hard time envisioning what McNeil will do excel at. He's a solid enough ball handler, but doesn't have the type of handle you want out of your pg. He's fairly explosive getting to the hole, but he's not the type of guy who is finishing with dunks. I'd say it's fair to call him a below average perimeter shooter at this stage and Pitino mentioned the inconsistencies with his release that the staff has been working on. That's a long way of saying I am not sure he's a starting point guard or a starting shooting guard on a good team unless he significantly improves some facet of his offensive game.

From what I've seen so far, the best way for McNeil to be a starter (or 6th/7th guy) is for his defense to take a leap from being solid to being the type of guy who forces turnovers and can cover the best guard the opposition puts on the floor. Considering that McNeil asked to red shirt during fall practice and is now arguably our 7th guy, he's clearly taken a leap in play in a few months.
 

EG#9 said:
He's a really hard player to gauge for me. I like that as a true freshman he doesn't hurt the team out on the court and also doesn't appear to get rattled by playing in big games. McNeil had a rebound during the first half of the Ohio State game that was unlike anything we've seen from our guards outside of lil Dre, he just went up aggressively and snagged the ball at its highest point in traffic. His defense appears to be his strength right now and he does seem to bother opposing ball handlers even if he's not forcing many turnovers.

On the offensive end, I am a little bit less encouraged. I have a hard time envisioning what McNeil will do excel at. He's a solid enough ball handler, but doesn't have the type of handle you want out of your pg. He's fairly explosive getting to the hole, but he's not the type of guy who is finishing with dunks. I'd say it's fair to call him a below average perimeter shooter at this stage and Pitino mentioned the inconsistencies with his release that the staff has been working on. That's a long way of saying I am not sure he's a starting point guard or a starting shooting guard on a good team unless he significantly improves some facet of his offensive game.

From what I've seen so far, the best way for McNeil to be a starter (or 6th/7th guy) is for his defense to take a leap from being solid to being the type of guy who forces turnovers and can cover the best guard the opposition puts on the floor. Considering that McNeil asked to red shirt during fall practice and is now arguably our 7th guy, he's clearly taken a leap in play in a few months.
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He seems comfortable going to the hole, his handles seem good for a FR., and I am fine with finishing with no dunk - just finishing. 2 pts are 2 pts.
 


He comes from a very competitive high school conference. He seems comfortable playing on the B1G stage.
 

I see him as a poor man's Dre. I think his lack of athleticism will hold him back a bit and he isn't as good of a shooter as Dre. I think he'll become one of our better slashers over the next 3 years though. Hopefully he can improve his 3 pt shot, then he'll really help us out. If he doesn't become a starter at some point, I think he'd be an ideal 6th man.
 

I like his size and rebounding. Most of all, he's proven to be a smart and heady player who doesn't seem to make a lot of mistakes out there and makes good decision after good decision. That's pretty remarkable for a true freshman who hasn't seen a great deal of court time. I think the sky's the limit for the kid. Like most players, if he can get the jump shot to be consistent, he can be a star for us down the road.
 

I predict that he will be our most improved offensive player next year. He already harasses opposing players with his defense and rarely makes mistakes with the ball. What is especially promising is that he doesn't make the typical Freshman mistakes that Freshman are apt to make. I think this is one type of guard we can come to expect from Pitino and I predict that he will make major contributions in the future based upon his fast improvement this year.
 



All of this makes sense, I'll just caution on reading too much into something we've not seen. Here were things written about Wally and Buggs in the last year. Buggs may well end up being a good player, but last year at this time he was basically in the position McNeil is now.

Wally Ellenson (and hopefully his brother Henry) will fit in very well with Coach Pitino's system and be an important player (starter) for the Minnesota Gophers basketball team

I actually told someone that here in Wisconsin right after Coach was hired. Wally will be much more of a fit than the pass-pass-pass-stand around-pass to Dre offense Tubby ran.

He's (Buggs) going to be what we hoped Rodney would eventually become.

Odd how things sometimes work out. Monson before he left signed a pretty underwhelming two man class of Nolen and Hoffarber. That turned out to be a very productive duo that helped Tubby get off to a better than expected start. I am thinking that Tubby may have handed Pitino the same gift in Buggs and Ellenson.

I think Buggs probably has a better jumper and handles. Carter was a hybrid forward that leaned toward a PF in college. Buggs is a hybrid forward that leans closer to a SF. I've posted this video a million times, but you can tell Buggs has Rodney type athleticism with a much better handle and jumper...

Nah, he (Buggs) just might turn out to be what most expected for a mid 3 star kid. But there's no denying that he possesses some tantalizing skill sets that if all harnessed well, could turn him into quite a player, and that's why people are excited to see him in action out there for real. He's just a very intriguing player.

Buggs could be the key player. I am not sold he is anywhere near the athlete Rodney was, but with his size and fairly decent shot, he could make a difference between a fifth place finish or a tenth place finish.​
 

McNeil has sg size, can play the point but I am not sure he is a natural there.

ESPN insider from 5-20-13
Strengths: McNeil is a long lead guard with instinctive playmaking ability. He has a quick first step and is capable of creating offense off the dribble at virtually anytime. He has good court vision for a young guard, keeps his head up in the open floor, and is capable of getting hot with his jumper. He is also a potentially lethal defender with his long arms and quick feet. Physically, he has a good frame with broad shoulders and emerging strength.

Weaknesses:
Although McNeil sees the floor well, he isn't a true point guard as he struggles to play without the ball in his hands and doesn't yet see the game more than one pass or dribble at a time. He has an inconsistent shooting stroke with varying release points but still has a tendency to settle for contested shots from the perimeter.

Bottom Line:
McNeil has great size, length, quickness, and playmaking ability and consequently the potential to be a very effective lead guard at the next level but must continue to polish his skills and develop his basketball I.Q.

**Wow this review is pretty spot on, although we haven't seen the streaky shooting as a freshmen as of yet.

We are very undersized at every spot except center. I think McNeil will be a fine 3rd guard next year and I hope Morris can play the 3 with Austin graduating.

I think a future backcourt of Mason-McNeil could work as Mason is more of a scorer but undersized to play the 2.
 

I have also been impressed with McNeil this year. Although he doesn't light up the scoreboard he doesn't make me hold my breath every time he touches the ball (Mav on the other hand...).

We also have to remember that Buggs is just a Rfrosh, he's going to have three more years to develop his game in Pitino's system. I could see him contributing some good minutes in two year's time.
 

McNeil was Coach P.'s first recruit and at the time, many of us thought his role would be to back up Dre at the point. When Mathieu was signed shortly thereafter we really didn't know what his role would be. Offensively, McNeil is very Joe Colemanesque and it will be interesting to see how well the staff develops his outside shooting over time. Other than being a below average shooter, he does everything pretty well. IMO the scouting report above, is very accurate.

I recently saw that he is averaging almost 10 minutes per game on the season, with almost all being B1G minutes. In comparison, EE averaged 15 minutes his freshman year, so it should end up fairly close by season's end. EE was able to parlay those minutes into becoming the 6th man the following season. I feel McNeil is the most obvious choice to fill the black hole at the 3.
 



I don't see the Coleman/McNeil comparison at all. It kind of explains your weird infatuation with McNeil at the 3 spot though. McNeil is a combo guard that handles the ball very well for an off guard. Joe Coleman couldn't dribble competently beyond a power dribble before he went up for a dunk. Coleman was also a much better athlete than McNeil. I'd take McNeil's jumper over Coleman's though. If Pitino saw McNeil as a 3 he wouldn't be going after Piper and Eubanks so hard.
 

howieramone said:
McNeil was Coach P.'s first recruit and at the time, many of us thought his role would be to back up Dre at the point. When Mathieu was signed shortly thereafter we really didn't know what his role would be. Offensively, McNeil is very Joe Colemanesque and it will be interesting to see how well the staff develops his outside shooting over time. Other than being a below average shooter, he does everything pretty well. IMO the scouting report above, is very accurate.

I recently saw that he is averaging almost 10 minutes per game on the season, with almost all being B1G minutes. In comparison, EE averaged 15 minutes his freshman year, so it should end up fairly close by season's end. EE was able to parlay those minutes into becoming the 6th man the following season. I feel McNeil is the most obvious choice to fill the black hole at the 3.
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Before he signed, had you been to Maryland to see him play?
 


MadtownGopher said:
I see him as a poor man's Dre. I think his lack of athleticism will hold him back a bit and he isn't as good of a shooter as Dre. I think he'll become one of our better slashers over the next 3 years though. Hopefully he can improve his 3 pt shot, then he'll really help us out. If he doesn't become a starter at some point, I think he'd be an ideal 6th man.
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Can't agree with the lack of athleticism. McNeil is plenty athletic and I see a lot more athleticism in him than I do in Dre Hollins.

His outside shooting has a ways to go but he has shown some ability to score around the basket and once he gets more polsihed his offensive game will be his ability to create off the dribble.
 

scools12 said:
Can't agree with the lack of athleticism. McNeil is plenty athletic and I see a lot more athleticism in him than I do in Dre Hollins.

His outside shooting has a ways to go but he has shown some ability to score around the basket and once he gets more polsihed his offensive game will be his ability to create off the dribble.
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+1
 

scools12 said:
Can't agree with the lack of athleticism. McNeil is plenty athletic and I see a lot more athleticism in him than I do in Dre Hollins.
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Care to back this up at all? When Dre is healthy he is a quicker more agile guard. I'd also say he is a better and more explosive leaper. Not saying McNeil is a poor athlete, but he does struggle to stay in front of quick ball handlers and he hasn't shown an ability to attack the rim like Coleman could (or even Dre).
 

MadtownGopher said:
Care to back this up at all? When Dre is healthy he is a quicker more agile guard. I'd also say he is a better and more explosive leaper. Not saying McNeil is a poor athlete, but he does struggle to stay in front of quick ball handlers and he hasn't shown an ability to attack the rim like Coleman could (or even Dre).
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Dre Hollins is a jump shooter not a player that is known for his ability attacking the rim. and when has anyone described Dre Hollins as an explosive leaper?
 

MadtownGopher said:
Care to back this up at all? When Dre is healthy he is a quicker more agile guard. I'd also say he is a better and more explosive leaper. Not saying McNeil is a poor athlete, but he does struggle to stay in front of quick ball handlers and he hasn't shown an ability to attack the rim like Coleman could (or even Dre).
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I would argue that dre is not particularly agile or athletic. He has decent straight line speed and average quickness. He makes his impact on the game as a spot up or pull up shooter because he has great lift when he shoots, not because he is making athletic plays to the rim with explosive leaping. When McNeil is a junior (comparable age as dre), I think we will see a player who has developed into a more fluid, if not more athletic, player than dre. By no means will he be a comparable scorer though.

Not every 6'-3 freshman guard in the country is making explosive dunks, and this shouldn't be how we judge athleticism. Coleman has great explosion, but he also had terrible lateral quickness when he had the ball.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

scools12 said:
Dre Hollins is a jump shooter not a player that is known for his ability attacking the rim. and when has anyone described Dre Hollins as an explosive leaper?
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It's possible to be a good shooter and a good slasher. I would argue Dre is good at both. And I don't think McNeil could pull off Dre's dunk in the Tubby Tipoff a couple of years ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6hI31yBylI#t=85

Also note Joe Coleman's athleticism. McNeil is no where near Coleman and a step below Dre in my opinion.

It also looks like ESPN had one of his strengths as attacking the rim (ie slasher)...

Strengths:
Hollins takes an old-school approach to the game that a coach would love. He is a blue-collar guy at the SG position who laces them up tight every time he steps between the lines. He has good range on his jump shot out to 24', but his game is attacking ... for full access to RecruitingNation become an Insider
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I could be wrong though because I don't have insider access to read the rest of the sentence.
 

Oh Madtown, you can do better than that :)

I'm not really sure which piece of evidence you provide is worse: one clip from a dunk contest, or an incomplete sentence that was written by an ESPN scout 3-4 years ago when Andre was playing in high school.
 

bc2211 said:
Oh Madtown, you can do better than that :)

I'm not really sure which piece of evidence you provide is worse: one clip from a dunk contest, or an incomplete sentence that was written by an ESPN scout 3-4 years ago when Andre was playing in high school.
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What do you want then? People are underrating Dre's athleticism because he has been hobbled the last month or so. There is a reason he has been our best player the last 2-3 years. He can shoot AND he can get to the rim with his above average athleticism. The only reason this came up was because people were saying they thought McNeil was a better athlete, which I don't see, at all. At least I offered some evidence to back up my opinion.

And while I've posted videos of dunks, I think the biggest difference in athleticism between McNeil and Dre is on the defensive side of the ball. Dre is much quicker moving his feet and staying in front of quick point guards. That is the one time when McNeil really struggles and tends to pick up fouls for reaching or holding the ball handler as they drive past him.

ETA: Has McNeil even dunked in a game yet?

 


Dre is good at getting somewhat near the rim to then get his shot blocked. I generally agree with you, but Dre is not good at scoring near the rim, nor is Austin an elite (or some word like that...forget what you used) ball-handler.

MadtownGopher said:
It's possible to be a good shooter and a good slasher. I would argue Dre is good at both. And I don't think McNeil could pull off Dre's dunk in the Tubby Tipoff a couple of years ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6hI31yBylI#t=85

Also note Joe Coleman's athleticism. McNeil is no where near Coleman and a step below Dre in my opinion.

It also looks like ESPN had one of his strengths as attacking the rim (ie slasher)...



I could be wrong though because I don't have insider access to read the rest of the sentence.
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Dre Hollins's injury has nothing to do with it. His vast majority of points come from outside and not by finishing at the rim.

Not ripping Hollins in any way. Just believe McNeil is the better athlete and has shown some ability to get to the basket off the dribble.
 

MadtownGopher said:
What do you want then? People are underrating Dre's athleticism because he has been hobbled the last month or so. There is a reason he has been our best player the last 2-3 years. He can shoot AND he can get to the rim with his above average athleticism. The only reason this came up was because people were saying they thought McNeil was a better athlete, which I don't see, at all. At least I offered some evidence to back up my opinion.

And while I've posted videos of dunks, I think the biggest difference in athleticism between McNeil and Dre is on the defensive side of the ball. Dre is much quicker moving his feet and staying in front of quick point guards. That is the one time when McNeil really struggles and tends to pick up fouls for reaching or holding the ball handler as they drive past him.

ETA: Has McNeil even dunked in a game yet?

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I don't know, but I watched some pretty impressive dunks from Buggs' high school days. Haha.
 

PitinoFan said:
I don't know, but I watched some pretty impressive dunks from Buggs' high school days. Haha.
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Buggs is clearly the best athlete on the team (especially now that Wally is gone).

But I'm ready to move on regarding McNeil v. Dre. Agree to disagree.
 

scools12 said:
Dre Hollins's injury has nothing to do with it. His vast majority of points come from outside and not by finishing at the rim.

Not ripping Hollins in any way. Just believe McNeil is the better athlete and has shown some ability to get to the basket off the dribble.
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Actually a big reason Andre is a good scorer is his ability to get to the free throw line. When 100% healthy he's athletic enough to beat his man off the dribble and draw contact. The stats back it up.

FTA/game prior to the Wisconsin game = 6 FTA
FTA/game after the Wisconsin game = 3.7 FTA

You might say his free throw attempts were higher before the Wisconsin game because that includes non-conference games (and thus lesser competition in most cases) but he actually averaged 7.1 FTA in big ten play before his injury.

Saying the vast majority of his points come from outside shooting just isn't accurate. I wouldn't call him a slasher, but he's athletic and crafty enough to get to the line and accumulate points when healthy.

In comparing him to McNeil, I think it's hard to say. Hollins is a shell of his usual self right now and that tends to cloud our current thoughts about him. I'd like to see more of McNeil before determining what kind of athlete he is, he really hasn't had many opportunities to show off his athleticism.
 

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