Culture at the heart

Donate To GopherHole
DoubleAlum said:
Between 10-20 guys had sex with her. 12 or more used condoms. More players are getting a free pass on this. Perhaps one or two may be getting a bad rap. The ones getting off should confess in exchange for exonerating the one or two innocents.
Click to expand...

were all of the accused players and if they were not what has happened to them
 

I think it's pretty clear that there is a culture of degradation of women that is common not only on our football team, but sports teams, and college campuses in general. The athletes' messages to each other is exhibit A of this. In the past few weeks, I can't count how many teams from other schools I've seen in the news be suspended for leaked degrading comments. Just today the Washington U. men's soccer team was suspended over comments toward women's team. I'm a 22 year-old woman who, yes, has been to football parties here on campus. A certain (now graduated) running back invited me. It's pretty obvious why he invited me now.
 

Berma144 said:
I think it's pretty clear that there is a culture of degradation of women that is common not only on our football team, but sports teams, and college campuses in general. The athletes' messages to each other is exhibit A of this. In the past few weeks, I can't count how many teams from other schools I've seen in the news be suspended for leaked degrading comments. Just today the Washington U. men's soccer team was suspended over comments toward women's team. I'm a 22 year-old woman who, yes, has been to football parties here on campus. A certain (now graduated) running back invited me. It's pretty obvious why he invited me now.
Click to expand...

If you haven't this is a must watch documentary:

http://thehuntinggroundfilm.com
 

Berma144 said:
I'm a 22 year-old woman who, yes, has been to football parties here on campus. A certain (now graduated) running back invited me. It's pretty obvious why he invited me now.
Click to expand...

Oh, good for you. Is it possible you were invited to a party to socialize and get to know people? Been a while, but pretty sure every college party does not end in a gang bang.
 

LesBolstad said:
Oh, good for you. Is it possible you were invited to a party to socialize and get to know people? Been a while, but pretty sure every college party does not end in a gang bang.
Click to expand...

You missed my point. I meant there's a culture on college campuses in general, but here on the football team too, of just inviting as many chicks as you can to parties and limiting the number of outside guys so as many of your guys can get laid as possible. "The ratio."
 


killme said:
My long-winded post was intended to illustrate visible and open decline, not say "let's go back to the old days" or endorse or condemn a political party. I think mostly what I was trying to express is, IMHO, there is right and wrong and we all know the difference.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I just have a hard time looking at American history and seeing this decline you refer to unless we ignore the Native American genocide, African American slavery, and brutal racial segregation...not to mention ethnic bigotry, exploitation of workers, woman and children.
 

corcorangopher said:
We do need to stand up for morals and values.

I've been a passionate Gopher fan for many years. I'll be once the dust settles again. But this about men's D1 athletics. It's too big. It's addictive. It's too powerful for its own good.

This is not representative of the University of Minnesota. The school does so much fantastic work. There are so many bright students doing so much wonderful things. There clearly was a victim in this tragedy. But, it is also so sad that so many now equate our fine University with this filth and fail to know it's true value and purpose.
Click to expand...

completely agree-- the U does many great things and most of the 50k + students are not like this. Even if there is full consent which is not known by many people how can anyone not think this was completely despicable. How is being the 2nd, 5th or 10th plus person even fun. Go find your own girlfriend/boyfriend + there is no need to watch your friends do it. Shocked that none of the people in attendance put a stop to it and sent everyone home based on some basic right from wrong ideas.
 

Iceland12 said:
No, you'd be sending them to Kansas State. Hope the culture down there suits you.[/I]
Click to expand...

Hi Iceland12. We haven’t sparred in a while and you obviously missed spewing your hatred. I’m a loyal guy, but loyalty has a hierarchy and for me a final authority.

I love Jerry Kill and have heard his views on many cultural issues. I believe I know quite a bit about his values. I’ve witnessed his leadership. I’ve seen him handle complicated situations. Is he flawed like all of us? Of course. And, it’s likely he and I would disagree on some topics. As of right now, I support his leadership abilities. Was the article you referenced intended to disparage JK's character?

There may be nowhere with a wholesome culture to send my son or daughter. Some places might have a dark, repulsive secret faction. My intent was to say the Gopher football culture has an unacceptable and apparently prevalent infection and because of it’s prominence and wide-ranging influence and reach, the school and the community also bear responsibility for the spread of the disease.

Every time we compromise values and character, even a little bit, or on a minor issue, it’s virtually impossible to get it back. The circus-clown handling of this incident has caused many of us to step back and examine our own attitudes and beliefs. I’m hopeful going forward that many have reinforced the ultimate importance of values and character over semantics.
 




killme said:
Whatever took place at Minnesota has likely happened in other campus communities. Various programs have developed some form of poor reputations, some appropriately, others unfairly. Take football out of the equation and it’s still clear to me the world is in an awful state of degradation and decline.

Sexual exploitation is rampant around the globe as we dance the fine line of titillation and glorification. I’m old enough to have seen married couples portrayed on TV in separate beds. Sexuality has increasingly in my lifetime gone from a taboo topic to permeating news, music, entertainment, advertising, politics – you name it. Sex outside of marriage is glorified.

I’m positive it is not conducive to a healthy soul. My views about everything become more conservative in recent years, so this situation has forced me to assess my feelings about Gopher football.

I am convinced, from what I can discern about this incident, that the culture at the University of Minnesota, and specifically in the football program is vile and repulsive. I would not pay for my son or daughter to attend. There may be evil everywhere, but I’m pretty sure there are plenty of better choices.

I’m disappointed in the team leaders, especially Drew Wolitarsky and standing at his side in the press conference, Mitch Leidner. I’m sure there are some morally questionable things going on in a secular college environment and liberal-leaning community. But, I’m also familiar with a football “family” culture and self-policing is the key.

Evidence suggests a fairly large segment of the team has glorified degradation of women. With all of societies’ influences, easy for it to happen. No chance, as blatant as their boasting and texting was, that the entire team didn’t know that mindset was prevalent.

The leaders of this team knew, but didn’t stand up. It’s all fun and games until it’s my sister, my daughter, my friend. Double standard crap. The didn’t denounce the questionable (a stretch at best) behavior, instead they band together to support their teammates because of due process? Don’t be naive. They knew enough. This boycott smears the reputation of all who participated, which seems like all.

The coaches are not without blame. When 10% of the team is involved in one incident, there’s no way they were oblivious. I’d be stunned if topics of promiscuity never came up, given all the time spent together, and I’m not confident at this point in what they were teaching young men about life. Leadership is not a task everyone is qualified for.

The woman accuser is not without blame. Regardless of her consent, at 21 it’s unlikely she didn’t just wander out of a convent and was blindsided. She attempted to walk a fine line and if her story is truth, it turned out horribly. If I step in the mud puddle, I’m likely to get dirty. But, whatever poor decisions she made, she’s still a human. Even if all of her accusations are false -- which player testimony refutes -- even those on the fringe put themselves in potential harm's way.

It’s been a while since I’ve posted, but I have stopped by occasionally to try to find some Gopher news. I always regret clicking on my gopherhole link, because I’m never better off. Much like Charlie Brown and Lucy, I tend to think the next time will be different.

The anonymity on GH removes restraint. While there are a few who might publically champion the cause of vile mindsets, I suspect most would be ashamed to have all of their friends, families, and mothers know the things they post.

I propose that each of us has a responsibility to resist and do our part to stand up for morals and values.
Click to expand...
I'm so glad we have you here to dictate what morality is.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

Yeah let's go back to where people on TV slept in different beds.... I mean nobody was raped back when it was taboo and you couldn't talk about sex...
 


Lordshawesome said:
I'm so glad we have you here to dictate what morality is.
Click to expand...

There really is right and wrong. You may not like it, may want to establish your own morality, may even think each of us should decide for ourselves what is right and wrong, but that starts a never-ending chain of events that you'll eventually regret.
 



A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Yeah let's go back to where people on TV slept in different beds.... I mean nobody was raped back when it was taboo and you couldn't talk about sex...
Click to expand...

Doing the wrong thing permeates the human timeline. Shouldn't we resist and encourage doing the right thing?
 


killme said:
There really is right and wrong. You may not like it, may want to establish your own morality, may even think each of us should decide for ourselves what is right and wrong, but that starts a never-ending chain of events that you'll eventually regret.
Click to expand...
20 years ago, they used that same argument against same-sex marriage. Morality is not black & white. It's usually just self righteous people judging others and calling it a matter of right and wrong.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

Lordshawesome said:
20 years ago, they used that same argument against same-sex marriage. Morality is not black & white. It's usually just self righteous people judging others and calling it a matter of right and wrong.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Morality is just how I make other people do things I want, and all bad things come from when they don't!

Man this is pretty easy...
 

killme said:
Sexual exploitation is rampant around the globe as we dance the fine line of titillation and glorification. I’m old enough to have seen married couples portrayed on TV in separate beds. Sexuality has increasingly in my lifetime gone from a taboo topic to permeating news, music, entertainment, advertising, politics – you name it. Sex outside of marriage is glorified.
Click to expand...

old.jpg

I tell you these "Beatles" are no good drug using sexual deviants!
 

Lordshawesome said:
Morality is not black & white.
Click to expand...

Evidently we disagree. Having thought through the concept of right and wrong very thoroughly -- and continually -- I came to the conclusion that without an authoritative definition, the world is anarchy. You might not like my definition, and I'm certain I don't like yours. So, who decides? That's why there can be only one definition and we all get to decide for ourselves if we're willing to abide.
 

killme said:
Evidently we disagree. Having thought through the concept of right and wrong very thoroughly -- and continually -- I came to the conclusion that without an authoritative definition, the world is anarchy. You might not like my definition, and I'm certain I don't like yours. So, who decides? That's why there can be only one definition and we all get to decide for ourselves if we're willing to abide.
Click to expand...

You realize that if you were alive 200 years ago, your definition of right and wrong would be totally different? If you grew up in a different part of the world, your definition of right and wrong would be totally different.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
You realize that if you were alive 200 years ago, your definition of right and wrong would be totally different? If you grew up in a different part of the world, your definition of right and wrong would be totally different.
Click to expand...

Hey man if women just covered their faces none of this would be happening..... or quit that silly voting thing they do.
 

killme said:
Evidently we disagree. Having thought through the concept of right and wrong very thoroughly -- and continually -- I came to the conclusion that without an authoritative definition, the world is anarchy. You might not like my definition, and I'm certain I don't like yours. So, who decides? That's why there can be only one definition and we all get to decide for ourselves if we're willing to abide.
Click to expand...

You, Stalin, Hitler and Chariman Mao all have this opinion in common. Glad I prefer Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin and Alexander Hamilton as the Fathers of my country.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
You realize that if you were alive 200 years ago, your definition of right and wrong would be totally different? If you grew up in a different part of the world, your definition of right and wrong would be totally different.
Click to expand...

Are you really missing the point or just trolling? Do you really want everyone making up their own definition of right and wrong? I don't.
 

killme said:
Evidently we disagree. Having thought through the concept of right and wrong very thoroughly -- and continually -- I came to the conclusion that without an authoritative definition, the world is anarchy. You might not like my definition, and I'm certain I don't like yours. So, who decides? That's why there can be only one definition and we all get to decide for ourselves if we're willing to abide.
Click to expand...
No, morality is framed in your upbringing. I'd venture an educated guess and say yours are framed in Judeo-Christian ethics. Which is fine, but a person from a different religious/cultural background will have a different set of morals. And each person has, justifies to themselves, and believes certain things. Each person has a personal moral compass, steeped in nuance and ever changing with experience.
And to say the world isn't anarchy, is naive. Your life or mine, cozily typing in our peaceful neighborhood, isn't so much so. But ask people in Aleppo if the world is anarchy and you'll get a very different viewpoint. Besides, even in the guise of morality, people lie(to themselves & others), cheat, decieve and are disingenuous to their true feelings, to appear to have more "socially acceptable" thoughts. There is nothing black & white about anything involving morality in this world. We just have to try and be nice to each other & hope for the best.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 


killme said:
Are you really missing the point or just trolling? Do you really want everyone making up their own definition of right and wrong? I don't.
Click to expand...

I don't want you in charge of it.
 

GopherinPhilly said:
You, Stalin, Hitler and Chariman Mao all have this opinion in common. Glad I prefer Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin and Alexander Hamilton as the Fathers of my country.
Click to expand...
I disagree with certain views and opinions (that I'm aware of) for everyone in both groups you mentioned. And, although I haven't specifically checked, it's likely I share some views with each of them. So? Do you really want to give Ben Franklin the right to decide right and wrong for you? I'm positive you'll find a conflict. Thus, that list is disqualified to decide right and wrong for me.
 


killme said:
Me either. Likewise. So is there someone you want to be in charge, or should we all just decide for ourselves?
Click to expand...

I didn't mean that as a dig, just that one person shouldn't be in charge. I see you get that. There is no simple answer. That's why it is complicated.
 

killme said:
Are you really missing the point or just trolling? Do you really want everyone making up their own definition of right and wrong? I don't.
Click to expand...

Neither. I get the point and I'm not trolling.

However, the morality of certain sexual preferences and sexual acts is extremely fluid. It is one of the most fluid things in our entire society. I am sure most people on this board live in a way that would be seen as really immoral 50 years ago, and I'm sure our grandparents lived in a way that would have been seen as extremely immoral 50 years before them.

It's a fluid thing.

Everyone does get to make up their own mind about right and wrong. It's sort of what this country was founded on.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom