Craig Smith

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Bad Gopher said:
I personally think Pitino sells the program and college well with what he has to sell. It's just that he's not able to boast a track record of success or obvious coaching prowess. All these kids from Minnesota going to Madison or other places aren't rejecting the U of M; they're attracted to the prospect of competing for conference championships and being developed and challenged by the best in the business.
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I disagree. A good coach would have started and sustained a pattern of getting some of the young local talent to stay at home. We aren't even the conversation anymore.
 
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Bad Gopher said:
I personally think Pitino sells the program and college well with what he has to sell. It's just that he's not able to boast a track record of success or obvious coaching prowess. All these kids from Minnesota going to Madison or other places aren't rejecting the U of M; they're attracted to the prospect of competing for conference championships and being developed and challenged by the best in the business.
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Agree. Players are not thinking they will be getting a better coach. they know it in their minds. Talking to parents that has come up several times. Plus, a lot of kids love brands, successful brands. Considering a horroble coaching body of work , he has recruited very well. Over the years the recruiting rankings rival UW and UVA but the evaluations and development and the efficiencies way behind. Thus the results are dramatically different. Still would like fans to not give up on this year, there is a long way to go.
 

builtbadgers said:
Still would like fans to not give up on this year, there is a long way to go.
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Other than at home vs Nebraska, all the rest of the teams left have conf records at least as good as Maryland. If playing at home still means something (but the Maryland game??), then I guess we "should" also win at home vs NW.
 



Smith won at South Dakota which is one of the worst division 1 men’s jobs out there. His hyperactive energy is very close to the level o PJ Flecks. His deal is defense first. Offensively they run motion and look to move the ball. Nikos more offense oriented. Both are dynamite recruiters and would do well here. Both recruit well to their system. Either ones a good hire imo, but I think Smiths style matches better in the B1G and he’s more familiar since he’s coached in the conference as an asst more recently. This job is probably a dream job for both of them as well.

Both of these guys also have been on Tim Miles podcast this fall. You won’t gain a ton of bball insight but you get an idea of each guys personalities and demeanors.
 
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ethomasp31 said:
I disagree. A good coach would have started and sustained a pattern of getting some of the young local talent to stay at home. We aren't even the conversation anymore.
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manderson1984 said:
You think UNC will go Wes when Roy retires in the next couple years?
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No idea as i am sure they will try and make the call to Bennett, Wright and Beard first. Bennett will say no to any offer they have. Not sure on Wright and Beard.
 

The Athletic Department took a financial hit this year, still has debt from the Village, and is not certain what the status of income from football will be next year so I doubt very much that Santa will even look at your lists this year.
 



Slim Tubby said:
Great post and input, EG.

I’m in the vast minority on here but Dutcher, Smith and Medved do absolutely nothing for me personally if the intent of firing Pitino is to ignite an immediate resurgence of interest in the program.

Are all three (3) of those guys superior to Pitino strategically when it comes to coaching? Probably. I’d be more excited and reinvigorated about the program (and recruiting) if Bielein was brought in with Matta being a distant second.
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Thanks for the kind words. I might be with you on preferring a coach who has a track record at the high major level, I am just personally not sure who/what type of coach I think is best right now. My concern with Beilein would be the "thugs" comment on how much weight that would still carry especially in the Twin Cities area. He's certainly been a fantastic coach though.

If you look at Coyle's hires, he's made big splashes in football, hockey and women's basketball in terms of name recognition with those fanbases. Of the 3 Moutain West guys only Dutcher might fit that profile (and that's a stretch) given his dad's history at Minnesota, but if any of the 3 made a deep tournament run this year they could significantly raise their profile.
 

BarnBurner said:
While I am OK that a potential new coach have MN ties, that isn't the most important thing for me. And I am familiar with the paths of both Smith and Medved and of course Dutcher.

There has to be many reasons why MN has not had a coach at the helm that has created a self sustaining program for any length of time, other than Haskins, since Dutcher left. Administrative politics, funding, priority of sports at the U, and poor hiring plans have all contributed, imo.

To me, MN is a job that coaches SHOULD want. Recent history of top flight kids to recruit locally, Big 10 conference, Big 10 salary (assistants), lots of positives. Metro area, of course can be a plus or minus. Lots to offer in the city.

If we are to believe BADGER, there are very few coaches with the ability and skills to build and sustain a program that is equal to many of the programs fans on GH would like Mn to be. That being the case, if one of those "special" coaches is not hired, each time a change is made, we fans are disappointed after a few years, generally. Each change is usually at least 5 years. A few 5 year changes and the cycle is established. Seems like what we see here.

Given that, should we really be so surprised when the wins dont come as expected? After all, if you subscribe to the minimal available "special" coaches that are available, we as fans really should not be surprised.
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Great post lots of ways to reply. Monson has proven to not be a particularly good basketball coach at Long Beach State since leaving Minnesota. Pitino was hired by a couple of guys who viewed/shared porn at work.

I agree with you that Minnesota is a job that coaches should want. Tubby didn't have a great tenure, but he wasn't leaving Kentucky for Iowa or Nebraska. He was only leaving for a place he still thought he could win at. If we talk about bad luck, Tubby had it. Made the tournament 3 out his last 5 years. Year 3 (still made the tournament) should have had Royce and Trevor if the administration was different as you alluded too. What happens if that's a B1G title contender/winner or an Elite 8/Final Four team in year 3? What's the trajectory of the program then? Years 4 and 5 he misses the tournament but year 4(I think) he was ranked in the top 10 midway through the year and loses both Devoe and Al Nolen and year 5 is when he loses Trevor to an ACL in a pre season tournament (not sure we would have been very good that year anyway). I feel like Tubby was legitimately close to a good program and that was prior to the state consistently producing talent and without a practice facility. Two years ago Hoiberg identified Minnesota and UCLA as the schools he had interest in. We didn't open and UCLA had this weird power struggle going on between the AD and booster and he ends up taking Nebraska for huge money. I know BuiltBadger isn't a fan of Hoiberg's, but he would meet my definition of "success" even if he doesn't Built's and we'll just agree to disagree there.

Built is probably right about the special coaches, but I am skeptical in anyone's ability to identify those coaches that aren't currently already doing it at the power 5 level. Scott Drew had all of 1 year at Valpo before taking over Baylor, the same with Chris Beard at Arkansas Little Rock before taking over Texas Tech. I think both would be on anyone's list of the special coaches in college basketball right now, but could you really have predicted either? Scott's brother Bryce had the Valpo job for 5 years, finished first in the conference in 4 of them, and got a job at Vandy that was certainly better than Baylor was at the time Scott took it. The result? Fired after 3 years after going 0-18 in conference play that final year. What made Scott that much better than Bryce?

My own opinion is that finding that special coach requires at least some luck in addition to skill and then you bring up 5 year changes when someone turns out not to be special and I'd say that's part of the issue at Minnesota too. If we would have changed after ~5 years, we'd have went through this cycle at least one more time post Clem. That's at least one more chance to hit on someone special. We had Monson for 8 and Pitino for (hopefully no more than) 8. If Minnesota is uniquely bad at identifying coaches and uniquely patient with said coaches, that's a recipe for a rapidly declining fanbase.

I hope things have/will change under Coyle, but I am also pretty disappointed that he didn't have the vision to move on this sooner. He's never made a basketball hire as an AD, so we don't have any data specific to hoops to point to either.
 

MN BB, in general, has had a lot of bad luck over the decades. Tubby didn't excite me, and I was less excited as his tenure progressed. He had his very own things that didn't get corrected and were obvious repeated issues as the seasons passed, just like RP's teams.

I agree with you regarding "special" coaches. Very tough to identify the next great one, even with some level of track record. And I agree that having some good luck when selecting a new coach is critical to long term success. Without having an level of inside information, I would tend to agree with Badger that the manner in which MN hired BB coached in the past was a large part of the problem - committees, etc etc. Even a casual observer could see the plan they followed was not the best way to find a great candidate. That said, it sure seems MN has a hard time attracting interest from the best of the best. Monson took over a thankless job after MN laid its soul bare to the NCAA, a huge mistake imo. Very, very few would even look at the job, let alone take it.

Coyle has had plenty of opportunity, first hand and certainly before he arrived to analyze RP's teams and their challenges. He punted last year. If the current skid continues, and I fully expect Rutgers to win the next one, RP may well miss the NCAA. This team is not playing well at all, sloppiness is excused, and personnel decisions are just aggravating - It was obvious Gach should not be starting a few games ago, and RP just continues. Baffling.
 

"...uniquely bad at identifying coaches and uniquely patient with said coaches, that's a recipe for a rapidly declining fanbase."

And here we are with a declining fan base. I could go on and on, but let me just say this: even if Bo Ryan hadn't strong-armed Greg Gard into that job, UW would've found someone else just as good. That's what they do. They're good at what they do from top to bottom including probably the most important thing: finding the right coaches to lead their programs. They're able to cut through the noise and make a clear-headed decision. And at the first hint it's not going up to their standards (Gary Andersen), they don't hesitate to do what has to be done.
 



If they hired Smith or Dutcher I would be on board.

I’d also be interested in someone with some NBA background that potentially pulls in the elite local guys. Bickerstaff, Saunders, etc.

I think Coyle will have an easy time with the hire and now is the time. MN has never been this attractive with HS talent going to the next level.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
If they hired Smith or Dutcher I would be on board.

I’d also be interested in someone with some NBA background that potentially pulls in the elite local guys. Bickerstaff, Saunders, etc.

I think Coyle will have an easy time with the hire and now is the time. MN has never been this attractive with HS talent going to the next level.
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Do you think Bickerstaff or Saunders would pull in elite local guys? I don't but curious as to what you (and others) think.

Most local kids don't know who JB Bickerstaff is. He spent two years here as a player, over 20 years ago. Current high schools weren't alive when he was a Gopher.

As a Wolves assistant he spent 4 years. 10-14 years ago.

Saunders is more interesting to me but only because I really like him and his family. I don't think he is the right person to coach the Wolves, and I don't think he is the right person to coach the Gophers.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
Do you think Bickerstaff or Saunders would pull in elite local guys? I don't but curious as to what you (and others) think.

Most local kids don't know who JB Bickerstaff is. He spent two years here as a player, over 20 years ago. Current high schools weren't alive when he was a Gopher.

As a Wolves assistant he spent 4 years. 10-14 years ago.

Saunders is more interesting to me but only because I really like him and his family. I don't think he is the right person to coach the Wolves, and I don't think he is the right person to coach the Gophers.
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I tend to agree that the College guys are likely the right fit.
 

BarnBurner said:
What is the reasoning the focus is on these three coaches?

What others should be in the conversation?
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Sadly, I think there are two reasons a school focuses on guys with connections to it. The first is to use it as a tiebreaker between a lot of good interested candidates. The second is because you hope it puts you in the conversation for candidates who normally would be above what you expect to hire.

The second is where our program is at now.
 


BarnBurner said:
What is the reasoning the focus is on these three coaches?

What others should be in the conversation?
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Is this media spec or message board chatter?

The important thing is who Coyle would have in mind, if and when. A competent AD has his "list" in the top drawer to call upon on when needed.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
A competent AD has his "list" in the top drawer to call upon on when needed.
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I think Coyle has said as much. He's constantly updating his lists for all sports, no matter what state that specific sport program is in. Always prepared.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
Is this media spec or message board chatter?

The important thing is who Coyle would have in mind, if and when. A competent AD has his "list" in the top drawer to call upon on when needed.
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Message board chatter.
 

scools12 said:
Anthony Grant should be the first call made to see if he is interested.
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Why? He gets to NIT and loses. Pitino has an NIT championship.
Grant had a losing conference record at Alabama multiple years. One nice season at Dayton.
He has a nice year once every 7 years...we got that already. He did not sustain any success.
Dutcher has a better track record than Grant and he wants to be here. How many coaches would want to be at Minnesota versus lots of other places if it wasn’t millions of dollars more money? Dutcher does.
I’d rather hire somebody who wins consistently...somebody who has done it. Dutcher or Belein do so of those mentioned.

Or gamble on somebody that is young and “you know” will win. Ala Pitino...didn’t work.
Doesn’t mean it couldn’t.
But, I don’t put Smith and Medved in the young gamble group...they seem good, not great...to me.
 



60's Guy said:
Why? He gets to NIT and loses. Pitino has an NIT championship.
Grant had a losing conference record at Alabama multiple years. One nice season at Dayton.
He has a nice year once every 7 years...we got that already. He did not sustain any success.
Dutcher has a better track record than Grant and he wants to be here. How many coaches would want to be at Minnesota versus lots of other places if it wasn’t millions of dollars more money? Dutcher does.
I’d rather hire somebody who wins consistently...somebody who has done it. Dutcher or Belein do so of those mentioned.

Or gamble on somebody that is young and “you know” will win. Ala Pitino...didn’t work.
Doesn’t mean it couldn’t.
But, I don’t put Smith and Medved in the young gamble group...they seem good, not great...to me.
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Because Anthony Grant can flat out coach. He had a winning conference record multiple years at Alabama. Dutcher has one nice season at SD State. I wouldn’t say Dutcher’s track record is better.

Nothing against the MW coaches but I would put Grant far ahead of them on any list.
 
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scools12 said:
Because Anthony Grant can flat out coach. He had a winning conference record multiple years at Alabama. Dutcher has one nice season at SD State. I wouldn’t say Dutcher’s track record is better.

Nothing against the MW coaches but I would put Grant far ahead of them on any list.
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Well,
6-10
7-11
8-10
9-7
12-6
12-4
54-48 is better but not wow to me.
In the pandemic he’s 10 and 4.
Richard is 11 and 6.
I’m guessing our schedule is a bit tougher than Dayton’s?
 

60's Guy said:
Why? He gets to NIT and loses. Pitino has an NIT championship.
Grant had a losing conference record at Alabama multiple years. One nice season at Dayton.
He has a nice year once every 7 years...we got that already. He did not sustain any success.
Dutcher has a better track record than Grant and he wants to be here. How many coaches would want to be at Minnesota versus lots of other places if it wasn’t millions of dollars more money? Dutcher does.
I’d rather hire somebody who wins consistently...somebody who has done it. Dutcher or Belein do so of those mentioned.

Or gamble on somebody that is young and “you know” will win. Ala Pitino...didn’t work.
Doesn’t mean it couldn’t.
But, I don’t put Smith and Medved in the young gamble group...they seem good, not great...to me.
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Who cares about the NIT. He has won conference titles, he has a conference career winning % that blows Pitino away. Authentic recruiter of character, no shortcuts, smart and impressive. Be built VCU, Shaka never won the conference there, Grant did that 3 times.
 

builtbadgers said:
Who cares about the NIT. He has won conference titles, he has a conference career winning % that blows Pitino away. Authentic recruiter of character, no shortcuts, smart and impressive. Be built VCU, Shaka never won the conference there, Grant did that 3 times.
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I do like Grant and would be more than happy with here, but you don't think he took over VCU from a guy who got a power 5 job and won the conference the year before in Jeff Capel. I think he helped continue to grow it, but he didn't build it. I will also add that VCU and Dayton for that matter were the best jobs in their conference as well at the times he's coached there.

I don't think MN is a top half job in the conference right now. It's why I like Craig Smith or even Niko as options. Both have proven they can win in jobs that are not the best in their respective conferences. I think there is some value to that.
 

manderson1984 said:
I do like Grant and would be more than happy with here, but you don't think he took over VCU from a guy who got a power 5 job and won the conference the year before in Jeff Capel. I think he helped continue to grow it, but he didn't build it. I will also add that VCU and Dayton for that matter were the best jobs in their conference as well at the times he's coached there.

I don't think MN is a top half job in the conference right now. It's why I like Craig Smith or even Niko as options. Both have proven they can win in jobs that are not the best in their respective conferences. I think there is some value to that.
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Good points and I like your two choices.
 

Brian Dutcher has never started over and rebuilt his own program. He worked under Steve Fisher for 27 years, then was handed the keys to a really good situation. I would not want to give him his first chance at this at nearly 62 years old.
 

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