Coyle on being “mad” the Gophers aren’t in the NCAA Tournament: “If you could see the text messages to my wife.”

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mngolf said:
Comeradery? It's been documented that players were creating turmoil and badmouthing the coaches. Not sure what team you were watching.
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I'm not sure gossip on social media constitutes "documented." It may be true and it is entirely believable, but it has not been documented. Until a coach or one of the players involved suggest it, it stays at gossip/rumor stage.
 


Holy Man said:
I'm not sure gossip on social media constitutes "documented." It may be true and it is entirely believable, but it has not been documented. Until a coach or one of the players involved suggest it, it stays at gossip/rumor stage.
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"Locker room issues" was never mentioned until the 3 amigos hit the portal. Then writergoph (AKA Ryan James) introduced it.
 

howeda7 said:
I agree it's difficult. But it seems we're saying the solution is to give up and not try.
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Unfortunately, what I'm saying is that in the current chaotic environment schools have to raise enough money to buy the best possible talent and roll the dice. "Culture," however it is defined, is a nice add on, but it's less important than it used to be.
 

jamiche said:
Unfortunately, what I'm saying is that in the current chaotic environment schools have to raise enough money to buy the best possible talent and roll the dice. "Culture," however it is defined, is a nice add on, but it's less important than it used to be.
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so the question is - can you build "culture" the old-fashioned way when there is no guarantee that any player will be with you for more than a season?

with NIL and the portal, "culture" is a luxury that a struggling program may not be able to afford.

and it's different in hoops vs football due to size of roster and the impact that one or two players can have in hoops vs football. If Fleck had to replace half of his roster every season, his "culture" would be taking a big hit.
 


jamiche said:
Unfortunately, what I'm saying is that in the current chaotic environment schools have to raise enough money to buy the best possible talent and roll the dice. "Culture," however it is defined, is a nice add on, but it's less important than it used to be.
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While I absolutely agree with you in that the quickest and easiest way to get great now is $$, I think having a coach/structure in place to win with less than 5 * talent would help. Not exactly apples to apples but I look at the Tampa Bay Ray's in MLB. For the better part of a decade they've spent far less than NY BOS LAD while trading away stars who are over their budget but still managed to field a winning team by finding hidden gems and maximizing their ability. I certainly think there are coaches out there that could do that with the bball program here. Again we aren't likely to be a top 10 powerhouse or win NCAA titles, but its also not impossible to be high middle tier program.
 

howeda7 said:
He's not building anything. On the off chance we do enough in the portal to be a bubble team next year, year 5 will be another total reset. The opposite is true. Running it back with an unproven coach and praying to get lucky won't work.
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True...our team will be reset next year, without a chance to win. And that's how it will always be here. Unless our administration decides to enter the sleaze and starts buying players.

howeda7 said:
I agree it's difficult. But it seems we're saying the solution is to give up and not try.
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Yes. We should give up hope of being consistently good. We should hope for luck about every 4th year or so. Unless we enter the sleaze game.

At this point, I'm actually for expanding the NCAA Tournament to 128 teams. Make the regular season irrelevant. Keep our chances alive just as long as the paying teams.
 

I think the "culture" of basketball teams is totally eroded with NIL....look at Purdue--national runner-ups and they've already lost 2 to the portal.
 

cheeseheadgophfan said:
I think the "culture" of basketball teams is totally eroded with NIL....look at Purdue--national runner-ups and they've already lost 2 to the portal.
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At least in part because they have a loaded recruiting class.
 



leib0039 said:
While I absolutely agree with you in that the quickest and easiest way to get great now is $$, I think having a coach/structure in place to win with less than 5 * talent would help. Not exactly apples to apples but I look at the Tampa Bay Ray's in MLB. For the better part of a decade they've spent far less than NY BOS LAD while trading away stars who are over their budget but still managed to field a winning team by finding hidden gems and maximizing their ability. I certainly think there are coaches out there that could do that with the bball program here. Again we aren't likely to be a top 10 powerhouse or win NCAA titles, but its also not impossible to be high middle tier program.
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The Rays are a cool story. However, for every Rays in the world of sports there are ten Pirates and Marlins.
 

Holy Man said:
I'm not sure gossip on social media constitutes "documented." It may be true and it is entirely believable, but it has not been documented. Until a coach or one of the players involved suggest it, it stays at gossip/rumor stage.
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Ok, then what would you say about them building a culture and comeraderie?
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
Yes. We should give up hope of being consistently good. We should hope for luck about every 4th year or so. Unless we enter the sleaze game.

At this point, I'm actually for expanding the NCAA Tournament to 128 teams. Make the regular season irrelevant. Keep our chances alive just as long as the paying teams.
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Pick a different sport then.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
True...our team will be reset next year, without a chance to win. And that's how it will always be here. Unless our administration decides to enter the sleaze and starts buying players.


Yes. We should give up hope of being consistently good. We should hope for luck about every 4th year or so. Unless we enter the sleaze game.

At this point, I'm actually for expanding the NCAA Tournament to 128 teams. Make the regular season irrelevant. Keep our chances alive just as long as the paying teams.
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In the NIL era every single team every year will be reset. There's no reason to pontificate about culture and loyalty. It's too bad Mark and his "mad as hell" wife don't understand that. It's about the money.

In the 80's Willie Burton was supposedly driving around town in a Corvette. I'm glad the players don't have to pretend anymore.
 





howeda7 said:
Pick a different sport then.
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You & I actually might not be too far off in assessing the facts. We just choose to deal with it in different ways.

You choose to want a coaching change and hope for a miracle. I choose to want to keep the coach and hope for a miracle.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
You & I actually might not be too far off in assessing the facts. We just choose to deal with it in different ways.

You choose to want a coaching change and hope for a miracle. I choose to want to keep the coach and hope for a miracle.
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A new coach going .500 instead of 15-44 doesn't require a miracle. B1G titles? Sure. That's not the bar though.
 

howeda7 said:
A new coach going .500 instead of 15-44 doesn't require a miracle. B1G titles? Sure. That's not the bar though.
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Ok. Your new coach can start at the end of next season.

After Garcia, Hawkins, Mitchell, Christie, & Fox are gone. But remember, NO EXCUSES...even if Asuma transfers...he needs to win immediately. I don't want to hear anything about recruiting or trying to build a team anymore.
 


EasyThere Pilgrim said:
Ok. Your new coach can start at the end of next season.

After Garcia, Hawkins, Mitchell, Christie, & Fox are gone. But remember, NO EXCUSES...even if Asuma transfers...he needs to win immediately. I don't want to hear anything about recruiting or trying to build a team anymore.
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People have been saying this for a couple years now. It's never been easier to win early in a tenure given the current landscape of CBB. Unfortunately, we have a coach who is incapable of doing it. It's not a guarantee our next coach will, but I know for certain this coach isn't going to do anything.
 
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Gophers7633 said:
People have been saying this for a couple years now. It's never been easier to win given the current landscape of CBB. Unfortunately, we have a coach who is incapable of doing it. It's not a guarantee our next coach will, but I know for certain this coach isn't going to do anything.
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Ok. The new coach has to bring in 5 new transfer starters and make the NCAA in Year 1.

Or else he's fired.
 




EasyThere Pilgrim said:
Ok. The new coach has to bring in 5 new transfer starters and make the NCAA in Year 1.

Or else he's fired.
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Nobody was arguing that Johnson should have made the NCAA tournament in year one. But you know that.

For me it's an acknowledgement that building a program isn't what it was 10/20 years ago in college basketball. We need to stop worrying about "locking down the border" and "brick by brick" and "building a culture" and "butt slaps and high fives". Our team cheers for each other! Those are all bare minimum expectations and/or nice buzz words in media interviews but makes our team look like the little engine that could.

NIL is a factor, no doubt. But let's not pretend coaching doesn't matter. Watching the teams compete in the NCAA tournament was sobering. UConn and others move the ball so much better than we do on offense (not just jacking up threes -- some nights good, some not so good). Many teams are so much more connected on defense than us. That's bigger than NIL.

I do give Johnson credit for recruiting a number of B1G level players. He obviously needs to recruit more in the next few weeks. But the talent lost in the portal this year isn't any different than what many teams face. He should be able to compete next year or find somebody else that can in the current NCAA climate. Hoping for an NCAA berth every four years "if" and "as long as" should not be good enough for this program.
 

cheeseheadgophfan said:
I think the "culture" of basketball teams is totally eroded with NIL....look at Purdue--national runner-ups and they've already lost 2 to the portal.
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Or is it talent finding their correct level and opportunity? I actually think in terms of development of American players the new system is ad improvement.
 
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golfing18now said:
Nobody was arguing that Johnson should have made the NCAA tournament in year one. But you know that.

For me it's an acknowledgement that building a program isn't what it was 10/20 years ago in college basketball. We need to stop worrying about "locking down the border" and "brick by brick" and "building a culture" and "butt slaps and high fives". Our team cheers for each other! Those are all bare minimum expectations and/or nice buzz words in media interviews but makes our team look like the little engine that could.

NIL is a factor, no doubt. But let's not pretend coaching doesn't matter. Watching the teams compete in the NCAA tournament was sobering. UConn and others move the ball so much better than we do on offense (not just jacking up threes -- some nights good, some not so good). Many teams are so much more connected on defense than us. That's bigger than NIL.

I do give Johnson credit for recruiting a number of B1G level players. He obviously needs to recruit more in the next few weeks. But the talent lost in the portal this year isn't any different than what many teams face. He should be able to compete next year or find somebody else that can in the current NCAA climate. Hoping for an NCAA berth every four years "if" and "as long as" should not be good enough for this program.
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Perfectly stated.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
Ok. Your new coach can start at the end of next season.

After Garcia, Hawkins, Mitchell, Christie, & Fox are gone. But remember, NO EXCUSES...even if Asuma transfers...he needs to win immediately. I don't want to hear anything about recruiting or trying to build a team anymore.
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Well the year one bar is 2-18. He better clear that....
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
And no, going .500 doesn't do it for me. That's missing the NIT.

He has to make the NCAA in year 1.
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You're known for high standards. "Pray for just the right amount of injuries to key players to maybe be good once every 4 years."
 

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