Coyle on being “mad” the Gophers aren’t in the NCAA Tournament: “If you could see the text messages to my wife.”

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howeda7 said:
Clem was .500 in the B1G. He also made the Sweet 16 in year 3. Even the "yeahbut Clem!" excuse isn't going to cut it anymore.
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You were blasting Ben during his 1st and 2nd years. So don't even try to say you're basing your strong opinions on the 3rd and 4th years.

Clem was .500 in the B1G when his first recruiting class became juniors. And he didn't have his big man (John Thomas) bribed away.
 




The "building a culture" strategy has been dying over the last couple of years and sometime in the next couple it will be officially dead.

Better to think about it as minor league teams with limited budgets competing for limited talent. Therin lies the problem. We are years behind on this due to university leadership.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
PJ is a great coach. He's doing the best he can here.

But 90% of the big winning is at the big paying schools. Ohio State, Michigan, Alabama, Georgia, etc.

It's NOT because of their superior coaching.
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That's weird because all of those schools will gladly pay millions of dollars to hire the "best" coach available. Why do some coaches get paid more and get the "best" jobs? It probably has nothing to do their coaching ability, they just happen to know the AD and got the job.
 

GopherBlood777 said:
That's weird because all of those schools will gladly pay millions of dollars to hire the "best" coach available. Why do some coaches get paid more and get the "best" jobs? It probably has nothing to do their coaching ability, they just happen to know the AD and got the job.
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The big-paying currently-successful schools don't need a new coach. And they don't need a motivator like PJ. They need a program-manager.
 

howeda7 said:
What culture is he building exactly?
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Inane. Disrespectful, and completely off base. Or maybe you do not follow the team. Perhaps you do not know Drew Evenson? Who knows with you about what the definition of culture is.

To be honest, if I read a good portion of this board's comments as a player or coach, I would not want to come here. Even in a year of growth, the negativity amplifies. If Ben does have more success this year, why would he stay? To hear you chirp that we should have won 12 games instead of 11? Or if Musselman was here we would have won a title?

It is deranged. And it needs to change. No coach is going to come here and make us a contender overnight. And any high profile coach would not come here for myriad reasons. We need to support our program in order for it to succeed. What does hating on this program do? Especially in a year of improvement? I really am lost. I guess the headline for some of you is: "Coach K comes out of retirement to coach struggling Minnesota to national title"? You are all so delusional I would guess if Coach K won 3 Big Ten games you would call for his head, too.
 
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BrooklynGopher said:
Inane. Disrespectful, and completely off base. Or maybe you do not follow the team. Perhaps you do not know Drew Evenson? Who knows with you about what the definition of culture is.

To be honest, if I read a good portion of this board's comments as a player or coach, I would not want to come here. Even in a year of growth, the negativity amplifies. If Ben does have more success this year, why would he stay? To hear you chirp that we should have won 12 games instead of 11? Or if Musselman was here we would have won a title?

It is deranged. And it needs to change. No coach is going to come here and make us a contender overnight. And any high profile coach would not come here for myriad reasons. We need to support our program in order for it to succeed. What does hating on this program do? Especially in a year of improvement? I really am lost. I guess the headline for some of you is: "Coach K comes out of retirement to coach struggling Minnesota to national title"? You are all so delusional I would guess if Coach K won 3 Big Ten games you would call for his head, too.
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How is it disrespectful? What is the culture we're building specifically? Are we known for innovative offense? Exceptional defense? I'd really like to know. I know we wanted "Minnesota dudes with grit" and maybe we had that for a minute but now they've almost all left.

Blaming the fan base for not being thrilled with year 3 that had a 10th place finish, a losing conference record and one quad one win is ridiculous. Ben's record is what it is. Yes, year 3 was an improvement, but it's only impressive relative to the awfulness of the first two years.

And now, after being told next year is the year, half the team has hit the portal, including the entirety of Ben's first freshman recruiting class, the hallmark of the "culture he's building." So, what now?
 
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EasyThere Pilgrim said:
What culture do the big-paying schools have? Some of their coaches have the personalities of doorknobs.
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Does Iowa's men's team have massive NIL? No. And Angry Fran is a jackass. But he's a far superior coach to ours. So they compete year after year in the B1G and make the NCAA's more often than not.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
You were blasting Ben during his 1st and 2nd years. So don't even try to say you're basing your strong opinions on the 3rd and 4th years.

Clem was .500 in the B1G when his first recruiting class became juniors. And he didn't have his big man (John Thomas) bribed away.
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Yes I was. And it's not Ben's fault. It's the folks that hired him. And we'd like them to fix their massive mistake sooner than later. Clem not only won by year 3, he had success at Western Kentucky before he ever arrived in Minnesota.

Clem is a not a valid or fair Gopher comparison for Ben. Tim Brewster is a much better one. No head coaching experience. In way over his head. And as we know, he's gone on to huge success as a head coach after the Gophers didn't give him a fair chance.
 

howeda7 said:
How is it disrespectful? What is the culture we're building specifically? Are we known for innovative offense? Exceptional defense? I'd really like to know. I know we wanted "Minnesota dudes with grit" and maybe we had that for a minute but now they've almost all left.

Blaming the fan base for not being thrilled with year 3 that had a 10th place finish, a losing conference record and one quad one win is ridiculous. Ben's record is what it is. Yes, year 3 was an improvement, but it's only impressive relative to the awfulness of the first two years.

And now, after being told next year is the year, half the team has hit the portal, including the entirety of Ben's first freshman recruiting class, the hallmark of the "culture he's building." So, what now?
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What is culture to you? To me culture can be a winning one, or a culture of building comradery and a team dynamic. This year, I felt the latter. But again, I have no idea what your definition of culture is. It appears to be tied with wins, which is fine I guess? I saw this team play all year, when they won they celebrated as a team and everyone was a part of it. When they lost they felt the sting equally, as well. To me, that is culture.

Your last two paragraphs are the most concerning. It does not seem as though you are a fan at all. It is a real bummer. You have a tendency to overlook improvement and focus on a complete rebuild, but are equally ready to count the first year of a rebuild against a coach with an empty cabinet. Again, if I were a coach or player looking at this program and I spoke to you, I would not want to be at the U. You have no faith in a program that is struggling, expect (demand?) overnight success, then call for the head of the coach if it does not work out. 4/5 starters are returning from what is their most part the first year playing together. You demand a coaching change and what do you think the transfer portal looks like then? Will you judge the incoming coach for an empty cabinet as well? I am sure you would.
 



howeda7 said:
Does Iowa's men's team have massive NIL? No. And Angry Fran is a jackass. But he's a far superior coach to ours. So they compete year after year in the B1G and make the NCAA's more often than not.
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This, again, is the delusion. How long has Fran coached at Iowa? How much leeway have they given him? Did they listen to fans like you calling for his head after bad seasons (which he has certainly had)? No. He has had a long time, as a lot of coaches have had. Ben has earned his fourth year, and the U basketball culture is solid - no scandals, good grades, and teammates that support each other. You are lost.
 

BrooklynGopher said:
This, again, is the delusion. How long has Fran coached at Iowa? How much leeway have they given him? Did they listen to fans like you calling for his head after bad seasons (which he has certainly had)? No. He has had a long time, as a lot of coaches have had. Ben has earned his fourth year, and the U basketball culture is solid - no scandals, good grades, and teammates that support each other. You are lost.
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We're both entitled to our opinion. Yes, he almost certainly gets year 4, we can agree on that much. We'll know in a couple weeks what the odds are of it buying him year 5.
 

howeda7 said:
We're both entitled to our opinion. Yes, he almost certainly gets year 4, we can agree on that much. We'll know in a couple weeks what the odds are of it buying him year 5.
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That's true. I didn't say you weren't entitled to it. It is just a bummer, man. And saying this team has no culture is truly unfair. The team supported one another and had a good year. Ben has had zero scandals as far as I am aware (not true for either Tubby or Richard). I just think some of the comments against this team are hollow and really not thought out. These guys will be playing their full second year together (all four returning starters). Let's see what the team can do before we ready the guillotine.
 

BrooklynGopher said:
That's true. I didn't say you weren't entitled to it. It is just a bummer, man. And saying this team has no culture is truly unfair. The team supported one another and had a good year. Ben has had zero scandals as far as I am aware (not true for either Tubby or Richard). I just think some of the comments against this team are hollow and really not thought out. These guys will be playing their full second year together (all four returning starters). Let's see what the team can do before we ready the guillotine.
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I didn't say that. But we keep being told about Ben building a culture. I asked what the culture was. Neither or you nor any other Ben supporter has ever articulated it. The team is close and cheers for each other? Every team does that. And they apparently weren't as close and tight as it seemed.
 

BrooklynGopher said:
That's true. I didn't say you weren't entitled to it. It is just a bummer, man. And saying this team has no culture is truly unfair. The team supported one another and had a good year. Ben has had zero scandals as far as I am aware (not true for either Tubby or Richard). I just think some of the comments against this team are hollow and really not thought out. These guys will be playing their full second year together (all four returning starters). Let's see what the team can do before we ready the guillotine.
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Also, keep in mind that Payne turned the ball over SEV
howeda7 said:
I didn't say that. But we keep being told about Ben building a culture. I asked what the culture was. Neither or you nor any other Ben supporter has ever articulated it. The team is close and cheers for each other? Every team does that. And they apparently weren't as close and tight as it seemed.
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What is your definition, then? you said it is not apparent. So you have a definition, presumably. Mine is a team that supports one another, achieves academically, does not engage in any criminal activity, and otherwise are upstanding human beings. But, again, "culture" is malleable and can be used pejoratively. I like this version of the identity of the Gophers - not sure where you land. Sure, we could win more and that would be nice, but to criticize a Gopher team that does a ton to support its community, team managers, and visit a bunch of Gopher fans in hospitals is kind of odd.
 

BrooklynGopher said:
What is culture to you? To me culture can be a winning one, or a culture of building comradery and a team dynamic. This year, I felt the latter. But again, I have no idea what your definition of culture is. It appears to be tied with wins, which is fine I guess? I saw this team play all year, when they won they celebrated as a team and everyone was a part of it. When they lost they felt the sting equally, as well. To me, that is culture.

Your last two paragraphs are the most concerning. It does not seem as though you are a fan at all. It is a real bummer. You have a tendency to overlook improvement and focus on a complete rebuild, but are equally ready to count the first year of a rebuild against a coach with an empty cabinet. Again, if I were a coach or player looking at this program and I spoke to you, I would not want to be at the U. You have no faith in a program that is struggling, expect (demand?) overnight success, then call for the head of the coach if it does not work out. 4/5 starters are returning from what is their most part the first year playing together. You demand a coaching change and what do you think the transfer portal looks like then? Will you judge the incoming coach for an empty cabinet as well? I am sure you would.
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So I'm interested, since you say the team won together and lost together. Why did half the team hit the portal? Don't say it was for money only, it wasn't. You have no damn idea of they liked each other or not just like I don't or anyone else in this board.

And stop with the "ohh but someone on a random message board said I wasn't the best, they are mean!" Go get your participation trophy. Not only does CBJ make millions, but now the kids are making a nice chunk of change. In my opinion you want to get paid, cool, but that also means if I'm ponying up the money for tickets and jerseys and autographs then I'm also open to criticize and say they weren't good. Trust me, this is about a nice of a place as you will get. Go read the Kentucky boards and see what they say after a 25+ win season and multiple nba kids on the roster. I promise you it's worse. For the most part we here are above board, do I want to be better yes, but no one here is attacking kids personally. If they have a problem with someone saying they can't shoot after shooting 18% on the year they need to toughen up.
 

BrooklynGopher said:
Also, keep in mind that Payne turned the ball over SEV

What is your definition, then? you said it is not apparent. So you have a definition, presumably. Mine is a team that supports one another, achieves academically, does not engage in any criminal activity, and otherwise are upstanding human beings. But, again, "culture" is malleable and can be used pejoratively. I like this version of the identity of the Gophers - not sure where you land. Sure, we could win more and that would be nice, but to criticize a Gopher team that does a ton to support its community, team managers, and visit a bunch of Gopher fans in hospitals is kind of odd.
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Fine but "support each other and don't get arrested" is a bare minimum expectation. A program needs an identity. Wisconsin plays defense and values the ball on offense. And yes it's boring and they clutch, grab and trip but it's a brand and they recruit to it. Iowa runs and tries outscore you. Tubby was ball line defense first and offense was painful at times. But it was something.

I have no idea what Ben's identity is. We don't play good defense. The last half of the season it was downright awful. I can't really tell you what it is on offense either. It's not the worst I've ever seen. It's a bit better than Pitino's "go score 40 Carr" but that's not saying much. Without that identity, what are we recruiting towards? If it was to "close the borders" and keep the best local kids and figure it out from there, well that's not going very well.
 

howeda7 said:
How is it disrespectful? What is the culture we're building specifically? Are we known for innovative offense? Exceptional defense? I'd really like to know. I know we wanted "Minnesota dudes with grit" and maybe we had that for a minute but now they've almost all left.

Blaming the fan base for not being thrilled with year 3 that had a 10th place finish, a losing conference record and one quad one win is ridiculous. Ben's record is what it is. Yes, year 3 was an improvement, but it's only impressive relative to the awfulness of the first two years.

And now, after being told next year is the year, half the team has hit the portal, including the entirety of Ben's first freshman recruiting class, the hallmark of the "culture he's building." So, what now?
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Asking "what now?" is a fair question.

The answer is: There is nothing else to do. There is no real hope. Just hope we get lucky.

Keep building a team like Ben is doing. Have a chance to be good once every 4 years. Hope only 1 gets bribed away...and get lucky with everyone else returning.

Hiring a new coach won't help.
 

howeda7 said:
Does Iowa's men's team have massive NIL? No. And Angry Fran is a jackass. But he's a far superior coach to ours. So they compete year after year in the B1G and make the NCAA's more often than not.
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And he didn't make it this year. And his players are getting bribed away.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
Asking "what now?" is a fair question.

The answer is: There is nothing else to do. There is no real hope. Just hope we get lucky.

Keep building a team like Ben is doing. Have a chance to be good once every 4 years. Hope only 1 gets bribed away...and get lucky with everyone else returning.

Hiring a new coach won't help.
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Mostly agree. If we don’t increase our NIL take, if the administration doesn’t put more emphasis on BB, and since we will never spend the money to induce a big name proven coach here, then while it seems to be a running joke to some, Bens "culture" is about all that’s left. Just plugging in another budget basement coach won’t do anything! (but keep some from on here going bat s^*t crazy)
 

Man, it's unreal that people are suggesting that hiring a new coach won't do anything. Ben has no track record of success, anywhere. Failed assistant at Xavier(the HC got fired a year later), failed 3 years as HC. There are a TON of better more accomplished coaches in Division 1. Does hiring a new coach guarantee any type of success, no it doesn't, but this staff has shown that they won't be a success.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Minnesota has been 'doing things the right way' long before Coyle, and hasn't had billionaire donors willing to support the school since running off Sanford nearly 20 years ago, who also 'doesn't do things the right way', at least not in the way the U wants them to. This isn't going to suddenly change overnight.

Purdue isn't an outlier. The vast majority of P6 schools are similar to Minnesota and Purdue. If money was all that mattered, then Ohio St, Michigan, or Indiana would win the B1G every year, but they don't. Kentucky, Duke, UNC, Kansas, Lousiville, etc would win the NCAA Tournament every year, but they don't.

Schools similar to Minnesota aren't more competitive because they have more money, they are more competitive because they hired the right coach who has the right culture in place to win with lower level recruits. Then they add better recruits as they build their culture and prove they can win with lesser recruits. This has been the formula for decades.

Until the U hires a coach who can build a culture and knows how to coach first, it does not matter how much NIL exists. If BJ was running Purdue the last 3 years, they would be at the bottom of the B1G and not playing tonight. The Gophers need to find their Matt Painter, Bo Ryan, Tony Bennett, or Jay Wright.
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All the schools you named consistently do a helluva lot better than the gophers. Nobody is claiming that we have the best coaches. The point is that more resources equates to more wins.

Yes, weather, there are outliers. We are looking at trends and patterns.
 


jamiche said:
It's very, very difficult for any team to build a culture when every player is on a one year contract and all of the players are between the ages of 18 and 22.
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Maybe club team coaches are the future of college basketball? Basically a new set of talented players every summer gives them experience in this brave new world.
 

jamiche said:
All the schools you named consistently do a helluva lot better than the gophers. Nobody is claiming that we have the best coaches. The point is that more resources equates to more wins.

Yes, weather, there are outliers. We are looking at trends and patterns.
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Those schools didn't get to that position without hiring the right coach first. It's the same case for the Gophers.
 

jamiche said:
It's very, very difficult for any team to build a culture when every player is on a one year contract and all of the players are between the ages of 18 and 22.
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Yet the good coaches still do it. Ben gets paid millions of dollars per year to accomplish this.
 


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