Coyle on being “mad” the Gophers aren’t in the NCAA Tournament: “If you could see the text messages to my wife.”

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Another example of why hiring the right coach matters above anything else. UConn was nothing until they hired Calhoun.

 



jamiche said:
You are using an example from 25 years ago?
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It's not just from 25 years ago, it's what happened and continues to happen over the last 25 years.

UConn was nothing in men's or women's basketball until they hired the right coaches. Now they’re the best basketball program in the country.

 



MonikerSchmoniker45 said:
I think most coaches would disagree with you.
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Thats fine.

All we heard about leading up rp firing and after cbj was hired was about the poor culture at MN, and then how cbj was developing culture in year one that would transcend into time. How did that culture help the team in retaining good players, something that is paramount in todays portal world?
 



SelectionSunday said:
Yep.

And all those guys have something in common. ... they built or were very successful at smaller programs before becoming home run hires for their current schools. Our recent track record of finding those kind of guys is not very good (being polite).

Painter -- 1 year at Southern Illinois (NCAA), then groomed for a year under Gene Keady to take over @ Purdue, 15 NCAA appearances since then.

Bo -- 4 Division III national titles at UW-Platteville, 2-year pit stop @ Milwaukee, followed by 14 (for 14) NCAA appearances @ Wiscy, including a national runner-up among 2 Final 4 appearances.

Tony Bennett -- built Washington State (2 NCAA appearances and a NIT in 3 seasons), followed by 1 national title among 10 NCAA appearances at Virginia.

Jay Wright -- built Hofstra (back to back NCAA appearances), which led to Villanova, which led to 16 NCAA appearances & a pair of national titles.

None of these guys were huge names when they were hired.

And for clarity, I'd be more than thrilled if we found a guy who accomplished about half of what these guys did at the schools that made them famous. Give me 3 NCAA appearances every 5 years with semi-regular appearances in the 2nd weekend (or beyond) and I'll want a statue built for him.

The U needs to successfully identify an under the radar hidden gem. ... we're not going to get a rock star, but that doesn't mean we can't find someone that becomes one.
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I know you didn't create the original list of; you just elaborated off of it. The other coaches are better examples of ones that had more success before jumping into greater success.

With the Matt Painter example, clearly he has turned out to be a diamond in the rough and a great coach. But he had ONE year of head coaching experience before taking over at Purdue.

At a school like Minnesota we're going to have to take a risk in some way, shape, or form. If we go for experience, then we'll have to pluck that experienced coach from a lower level. They'll have to learn on the job about the transfer portal, NIL, recruiting, etc. at the Big Ten level. If you want experience in one of those other categories, you'll have to sacrifice somewhere else. HOPEFULLY they can put it all together. Usually they'll have deficiencies in some of those areas.

Jay Wright got out before he had to deal with the extra headaches and management of NIL and transfer portal. He seems like a wise man because it seems like the system for P6 head coaches has become unsustainable and I think we are not going to see coaches staying in one place very long anymore (see John Calipari, Muss, etc.) because the fans and players expectations are unrealistic in the current system. The coaches mentioned above may be an extinct breed.
 




BarnBurner said:
Thats fine.

All we heard about leading up rp firing and after cbj was hired was about the poor culture at MN, and then how cbj was developing culture in year one that would transcend into time. How did that culture help the team in retaining good players, something that is paramount in todays portal world?
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We did retain good players though.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
It's not just from 25 years ago, it's what happened and continues to happen over the last 25 years.

UConn was nothing in men's or women's basketball until they hired the right coaches. Now they’re the best basketball program in the country.

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I did a quick check and there were lots of NCAA violations along the way. In addition to good coaches, a resource rich environment. Now the money part is more out in the open.
 




so this thread started out about Coyle.

so let's pose this question: What could Mark Coyle do differently to help the Gopher's Men's BB program be more successful?

I don't think that it's as simple as changing coaches. I think that multiple things would need to happen. even with a new coach, MN needs more NIL in today's game. and, I also think that the AD and the athletic administration need to make basketball a priority - the way they have made football a priority. If the AD and his staff are unable or unwilling to do that, then maybe MN has the wrong AD and staff - at least the wrong AD and staff as far as basketball is concerned.
 

BrooklynGopher said:
What is culture to you? To me culture can be a winning one, or a culture of building comradery and a team dynamic. This year, I felt the latter. But again, I have no idea what your definition of culture is. It appears to be tied with wins, which is fine I guess? I saw this team play all year, when they won they celebrated as a team and everyone was a part of it. When they lost they felt the sting equally, as well. To me, that is culture.

Your last two paragraphs are the most concerning. It does not seem as though you are a fan at all. It is a real bummer. You have a tendency to overlook improvement and focus on a complete rebuild, but are equally ready to count the first year of a rebuild against a coach with an empty cabinet. Again, if I were a coach or player looking at this program and I spoke to you, I would not want to be at the U. You have no faith in a program that is struggling, expect (demand?) overnight success, then call for the head of the coach if it does not work out. 4/5 starters are returning from what is their most part the first year playing together. You demand a coaching change and what do you think the transfer portal looks like then? Will you judge the incoming coach for an empty cabinet as well? I am sure you would.
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Comeradery? It's been documented that players were creating turmoil and badmouthing the coaches. Not sure what team you were watching.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
so this thread started out about Coyle.

so let's pose this question: What could Mark Coyle do differently to help the Gopher's Men's BB program be more successful?

I don't think that it's as simple as changing coaches. I think that multiple things would need to happen. even with a new coach, MN needs more NIL in today's game. and, I also think that the AD and the athletic administration need to make basketball a priority - the way they have made football a priority. If the AD and his staff are unable or unwilling to do that, then maybe MN has the wrong AD and staff - at least the wrong AD and staff as far as basketball is concerned.
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Hire a new coach. Take new coach and find a billionaire to schmooze. Just because you have two problems and one of them is hard to solve, doesn't mean you should throw up your hands and refuse to solve the one you can fix.
 


Oatmeal Savage said:
I know you didn't create the original list of; you just elaborated off of it. The other coaches are better examples of ones that had more success before jumping into greater success.

With the Matt Painter example, clearly he has turned out to be a diamond in the rough and a great coach. But he had ONE year of head coaching experience before taking over at Purdue.

At a school like Minnesota we're going to have to take a risk in some way, shape, or form. If we go for experience, then we'll have to pluck that experienced coach from a lower level. They'll have to learn on the job about the transfer portal, NIL, recruiting, etc. at the Big Ten level. If you want experience in one of those other categories, you'll have to sacrifice somewhere else. HOPEFULLY they can put it all together. Usually they'll have deficiencies in some of those areas.

Jay Wright got out before he had to deal with the extra headaches and management of NIL and transfer portal. He seems like a wise man because it seems like the system for P6 head coaches has become unsustainable and I think we are not going to see coaches staying in one place very long anymore (see John Calipari, Muss, etc.) because the fans and players expectations are unrealistic in the current system. The coaches mentioned above may be an extinct breed.
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If you can groom a coach at a school that already has a history of winning, that coach starts off in great position and has a great chance to succeed. If you have been losing you can't appoint a rookie and expect a winning result.
 





BarnBurner said:
In your opinion did they leave for $$?
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They may have left for a variety of reasons. Personally, I think a couple of them are just soft. I do think that guys stayed because they want to be part of building something. Whether you think it's good enough doesn't diminish the importance of establishing culture.

I think where we can agree is the defense has been crap and CBJ is too softspoken to be in his position.
 

oak_street1981 said:
I appreciate this post.

Mark Coyle is one of worst communicators ever.. He has an awful nasal accent and comes off as really slow rube even if he is brilliant. He talks around issues and comes off as as a weasel even when not that, directly.

There is no doubt that Coyle was strong armed into hiring Ben Johnson. No one with any brain can defend hiring Ben Johnson, then prolonging the hell for one more useless year.

Coyle needs to draw a line in sand and demand to hire his own coach right now. He needs to get the new President to allow him to fire Ben right now. This whole shit show is gong to play out in one year so why not just do it now.
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But Coyle is in his own catch-22. If he comes out and says "Johnson wasn't my choice" then he looks like a weakling who allowed the administration to bully him into hiring a coach he didn't want. But if he defends the choice of Johnson, then Coyle has to take all the blame for hiring an unsuccessful coach. so he's hosed either way. the only way for Coyle to save face is for Johnson to succeed.

the whole "but he hired Fleck" routine that Coyle's defenders use can only work so long.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
But Coyle is in his own catch-22. If he comes out and says "Johnson wasn't my choice" then he looks like a weakling who allowed the administration to bully him into hiring a coach he didn't want. But if he defends the choice of Johnson, then Coyle has to take all the blame for hiring an unsuccessful coach. so he's hosed either way. the only way for Coyle to save face is for Johnson to succeed.

the whole "but he hired Fleck" routine that Coyle's defenders use can only work so long.
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IMO he keeps saying the stuff about losing as a way of saying "I like winning, I was forced into this coach and losing" but again just my take.

Also gone over several times, hes hired Motzko, Coach P as well. Overall I think I'd say he's above water on hirings. I'm not a Coyle apologist at all but it could be worse, and also why I think he essentially had 0 to do with CBJ.
 

BarnBurner said:
Yup, and Slick Jim was as dirty as the undercarriage of a side by side after a muddy ride.
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Yeah Calhoun is the poster-boy for sleaze and buying players. UCONN still has the best teams money can buy.

It's not superior intelligence of the coaches.
 

howeda7 said:
Hire a new coach. Take new coach and find a billionaire to schmooze. Just because you have two problems and one of them is hard to solve, doesn't mean you should throw up your hands and refuse to solve the one you can fix.
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Yes. This would be an actual solution.

If the billionaire won't schmooze with Ben. But just hiring a new coach and doing nothing else is pointless.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
Asking "what now?" is a fair question.

The answer is: There is nothing else to do. There is no real hope. Just hope we get lucky.

Keep building a team like Ben is doing. Have a chance to be good once every 4 years. Hope only 1 gets bribed away...and get lucky with everyone else returning.

Hiring a new coach won't help.
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He's not building anything. On the off chance we do enough in the portal to be a bubble team next year, year 5 will be another total reset. The opposite is true. Running it back with an unproven coach and praying to get lucky won't work.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
But Coyle is in his own catch-22. If he comes out and says "Johnson wasn't my choice" then he looks like a weakling who allowed the administration to bully him into hiring a coach he didn't want. But if he defends the choice of Johnson, then Coyle has to take all the blame for hiring an unsuccessful coach. so he's hosed either way. the only way for Coyle to save face is for Johnson to succeed.

the whole "but he hired Fleck" routine that Coyle's defenders use can only work so long.
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I'm a fan of honesty and sincerity over trying to decide which message is going to play best for an administrator at a PR level.

If Coyle allowed himself to be bullied into a hire, he is weak.
 

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