Complain about a lack of talent all you want

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Bayfieldgopher said:
Were you at the NIU/MN last year when Coach Kills team owned the Gophers?So has Coach Kill made major changes to his system since then?

The difference in talent between Michigan and the Gophers was light years apart.
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Well, if you can beat a terrible Gophers team you MUST be good. God, if that is your standard, I feel sorry for you.
 

Art Vandelay said:
Good point. If my boss told me (and the entire state on Minnesota) how bad I was it would be difficult to get motivated to work for him....
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They do, and yet you still fight back.

I like your determination.
 

Rosemountian said:
My complaint is actually the opposite. When we dobbins the ball out of the spread, I hare when we get a 3rd and short and we pack it in and get stuffed.


I find the hate the spread gets hilarious. I never got the spread either till I was forced to coach in it. It works as well as any other offense. It requires execution just like any other offense.[/QUOTE]

Correct.
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Coaches own this as much as players

They can throw it at the players feet all they want but part of coaching, is getting people to work for you and actually try to give an effort.
This cannot all be roster problems or lack of talent, the play calling sucks the wind out of anything they have tried to have sustained success. I have
never seen an offensive line that looks this bad blocking, technique, effort all of it.
Coach may think he is doing the right way by showing everybody how bad everything is and even rubbing people's faces in it,
but if you do not even give a hint of success can happen or is possible you create a lot of doubt. Nothing Joel Maturi has done when it comes to hiring football
coaches has proven to be successful on the football field, I cannot see why this staff will be any different. Joel Maturi is a bad judge of head football coaches,
that will be fact when it is all said and done.
 

FireCosgroveGuy said:
Well, if you can beat a terrible Gophers team you MUST be good. God, if that is your standard, I feel sorry for you.
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Last time I checked Michigan is 5-0.

Will they win the BT? Probably not.

But if you are questionning the talent differential you were not watching closely or.............
 


Bayfieldgopher said:
Last time I checked Michigan is 5-0.

Will they win the BT? Probably not.

But if you are questionning the talent differential you were not watching closely or.............
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How about New Mexico State and NDSU? How was the talent differential there?
 

The stats are mind-bogglingly awful: 0 for 11 on third downs, for instance. Kill actually makes Brewster look good. We're back to Salem's worst year (multiple blow-outs likely).
 

Lack of Talent

Everyone needs to take a deep breath and sit back. No one said this was an instant turn around. This is going to take time and in two to three years if we are down by the same score, then we can complain.
 

gopher madness said:
Everyone needs to take a deep breath and sit back. No one said this was an instant turn around. This is going to take time and in two to three years if we are down by the same score, then we can complain.
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This is hilarious. In 2-3 years, it will be ok for fans to complain if the team gets beat 58-0? Tim Brewster, who is almost universally considered the worst coach ever on this board, won 7 games in his second year.
 





Bayfieldgopher said:
Come on Ice. I know you have seen a lot of BT football and should know who has the horses and who doesn't.
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That doesn't answer the question.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
Come on Ice. I know you have seen a lot of BT football and should know who has the horses and who doesn't.
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Kill didn't have the talent to beat USC but he could have. He probably didn't have a chance against Michigan. He certainly did have enough talent to beat NDSU and New Mexico State. You know that also.

You know what pisses me off about the whole thing? They have admitted that their lines haven't played well. Kill even talked about injuries to their tackles have really hurt them. They know that but they STILL try and get the lines to "establish" themselves. Today while the players were over matched, the coaches were the ones that gave up.

They other thing is the constant bemoaning about the previous coaching staff and the lack of talent.

You know what if they'd actually try to do something besides wasting down after down going up the middle for a yard. The defensive coordinator said that he made a mistake in the first half a couple times this year by depending on their D-Line to get it done by themselves. He did it again today. If they'd have tried to "mix it up" I'd have some sympathy. They haven't though.

Brewster was willing to trade losing in his first year to establish an Offense that he thought would win in the Big Ten and bring in some recruits. Kill has the experience to know better but again and again he keeps telling us that losing is to be expected because he can't teach these guys.

If you're content to watch them do the same thing again and again and fail, both on Offense and Defense fine. Im not.

For four years I heard and read about how Brewster should just "shut-up and get it done". Now I just want Kill to shut-up and try something different. To try to win and not just to "teach".
 



Iceland12 said:
You know what if they'd actually try to do something besides go 3 and out and depend on their D-Line to get it done then I'd have some sympathy. But they haven't and I don't.
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I don't even know how anyone can respond to this.
 

Just when Gopherhole can't get any worse ... really everyone? I get the frustration as I begged my 70 year old Dad to turn off the game today. But all these Brewster comparisons and I don't really like Kill statements and they and "trying to go 3 and out" ... sheeeeeesh.
 

I would rather have Kill teach this year and sacrifice wins. This year wasn't going to be pretty no matter what so why get mad?
 

zambam said:
I would rather have Kill teach this year and sacrifice wins. This year wasn't going to be pretty no matter what so why get mad?
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Exactly.

I also was unaware that Kill and his staff were the ones committing stupid penalties and were poorly executing plays.

At some point, we as a fanbase need to stop pointing our fingers exclusively to the coaching staff and start pointing them to the lack of play on the field.

Oh, I forgot that turning around a doormat program of 50 years only takes a good spring practice session and a fall camp. Silly me.
 

Iceland12 said:
You know what if they'd actually try to do something besides wasting down after down going up the middle for a yard. The defensive coordinator said that he made a mistake in the first half a couple times this year by depending on their D-Line to get it done by themselves. He did it again today. If they'd have tried to "mix it up" I'd have some sympathy. They haven't though.
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This somewhat (hang with me here) reminds me of Bobby Knight. I hated him for many reasons, but the one thing I did respect about him was this: Even when his teams had a team down and beaten, and he was emptying his bench and getting his scrubs some playing time, he would get on them for mistakes that they made because he was teaching his system, his way and not accepting anything less than what he expected. I believe that Coach Kill is doing the same thing. I truly believe that he has a process for getting these kids playing his way, and his system and the entire coaching staff will not vary from that plan.

I had hopes that it would happen quickly, but my expected timeline is getting readjusted on a weekly basis.

I still think he's the right guy.
 

Formo said:
Oh, I forgot that turning around a doormat program of 50 years only takes a good spring practice session and a fall camp. Silly me.
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THIS. If Kill and his staff are able to turn this thing around, we're going to have to watch some awful football first.
 

You should not have to watch awful football. Losing football can still be good football. If you lose because of talent it's one thing. Losing by 58 because you are playing bad football is another.

You can play good football and be respectable. If we lose by 50 and are playing good football I'm not complaining today. If we lose by 20 and are playing bad football, I do complain. If we lose by 50 AND play bad football, then I start to get annoyed.
 

Iceland12 said:
Kill didn't have the talent to beat USC but he could have. He probably didn't have a chance against Michigan. He certainly did have enough talent to beat NDSU and New Mexico State. You know that also.

You know what pisses me off about the whole thing? They have admitted that their lines haven't played well. Kill even talked about injuries to their tackles have really hurt them. They know that but they STILL try and get the lines to "establish" themselves. Today while the players were over matched, the coaches were the ones that gave up.

They other thing is the constant bemoaning about the previous coaching staff and the lack of talent.

You know what if they'd actually try to do something besides wasting down after down going up the middle for a yard. The defensive coordinator said that he made a mistake in the first half a couple times this year by depending on their D-Line to get it done by themselves. He did it again today. If they'd have tried to "mix it up" I'd have some sympathy. They haven't though.

Brewster was willing to trade losing in his first year to establish an Offense that he thought would win in the Big Ten and bring in some recruits. Kill has the experience to know better but again and again he keeps telling us that losing is to be expected because he can't teach these guys.

If you're content to watch them do the same thing again and again and fail, both on Offense and Defense fine. Im not.

For four years I heard and read about how Brewster should just "shut-up and get it done". Now I just want Kill to shut-up and try something different. To try to win and not just to "teach".
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Maybe if Brewster would've "Taught" the players anything then they wouldn't be the undisciplined & low fundamental team they are now...
 


zambam said:
I would rather have Kill teach this year and sacrifice wins. This year wasn't going to be pretty no matter what so why get mad?
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Why are we always the team that needs soo much teaching and learning? It's as if our guys never played football before, and there were no coaches here before this staff. Other teams still line-up, get ready to play, make plays, etc. How did Michigan turn around their defense? Sure, they paid Mattison (sp?) to come-in from the Ravens and I believe he makes more than Kill, but apparently he can "teach" really fast. Everyone thinks Brewster couldn't/didn't teach and coach-em up, but Kill will. Dare I say, I think Brewster had a number of better staff members than Kill. (Tim Davis, Hammock, and Horton come to mind)
 

gopherfield said:
Why are we always the team that needs soo much teaching and learning? It's as if our guys never played football before, and there were no coaches here before this staff. Other teams still line-up, get ready to play, make plays, etc. How did Michigan turn around their defense? Sure, they paid Mattison (sp?) to come-in from the Ravens and I believe he makes more than Kill, but apparently he can "teach" really fast. Everyone thinks Brewster couldn't/didn't teach and coach-em up, but Kill will. Dare I say, I think Brewster had a number of better staff members than Kill. (Tim Davis, Hammock, and Horton come to mind)
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Everyone seems to forget Michigan has more talent.
 

thailleagle said:
Maybe if Brewster would've "Taught" the players anything then they wouldn't be the undisciplined & low fundamental team they are now...
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Not being able to "teach" was one of many reasons he was fired. One of the main reasons Kill and his staff were hired was because they could "teach". So far all they've taught us is they're willing to throw away another season so they can "teach" the right way to play the game.

Same result different coaches.
 




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