College Football News: Minnesota & P.J. Fleck Ready To Row To A Big Ten Title?

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NotAFanOfBecky said:
Not to mention the amount of talent that returns.
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I've seen the sentiment posted before. I'm a bit confused by the idea that there is a lot of talent on this team or something.... I think there are good guys but I don't think of the Gophers as particularly talented at this point.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Kill (and Holtz, and others) would get ripped on mercilessly when they did the "aw, shucks" routine and acted like they had no talent so they could set the bar low and exceed expectations. Fleck doesn't even have to do that because he has a legion of sycophants eagerly and vociferously doing it for him. It really is amazing.
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If we had a returning QB, I'd be more optimistic, but Demry Croft wasn't exactly the guy chomping at the bit to get playing time to challenge Liedner for the job. So just from that alone, we have to assume it's going to be a step back in QB play. If he was better, he should have been playing during a 9 win season. The freshman might be good. I have no idea. Yeh, Louisville wanted him, but he's not the next Teddy Bridgewater yet just because Louisville recruited him.

Also, look at the records of first year coaches at MN.


Glen Mason took over a 4-7 team.
First year he went 3-9.

Brewster (hardly a good reference but what the hell)
Took over a 6-7 Bowl team.
First year he went 1-11

Kill
Took over a 3-9 team
Went 3-9 with Junior QB Marquis Gray.


Everyone did worse or at best matched the previous season record which was already bad.
If you want to compare him to the last "salesy" coach, be ready for a 5 game drop from last season.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
I've seen the sentiment posted before. I'm a bit confused by the idea that there is a lot of talent on this team or something.... I think there are good guys but I don't think of the Gophers as particularly talented at this point.
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The talent that matters is at QB. And we just lost a 3 year starter.
Michigan, OSU, FSU, Alabaman, PSU, Notre Dame, etc, can recruit a freshman QB to start fresh in Power 5 football, but unfortunately, I don't believe we have Michigan level recruits at QB on the field this year.
That's kind of my whole point right there.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
Western Michigan played Northwestern on the road the first game of the year when no one knows what to expect. We played them at home late in the year.

Western Michigan was up by 17 on Illinois at halftime. We were up 1 TD going into the 4th quarter. That game was a lot closer than the final score appeared thanks to Illinois 4th quarter turnover fest. Western Michigan handled them from the beginning and Wes Lunt played in that game. We gave up more points to Jeff George Jr.

I still have plenty of questions on whether PJ will succeed. Recruiting is the last of them and that's all we have to go on for now. Your teenage love for Claeys far surpasses mine for Fleck.
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Let me get this straight. The Gophers vs. Illinois game was a lot closer than the score indicated because we were only up 1 TD going into the 4th quarter. A bunch of TO's by Illini gave us the lopsided victory. So WMU's win over the Illini was more impressive?
Well then there is this:
We led Wisc. going into the 4th quarter and if it weren't for a TO fest by us, we would have won that game. Did WMU ever lead vs. Wisc?
 

GFBfan said:
Let me get this straight. The Gophers vs. Illinois game was a lot closer than the score indicated because we were only up 1 TD going into the 4th quarter. A bunch of TO's by Illini gave us the lopsided victory. So WMU's win over the Illini was more impressive?
Well then there is this:
We led Wisc. going into the 4th quarter and if it weren't for a TO fest by us, we would have won that game. Did WMU ever lead vs. Wisc?
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WMU dominated Illinois from start to finish. You could say that Wisconsin handled WMU for the majority of that game. Bowl games are different when you have a month to prepare and get healthy. Wisconsin is a more talented team than both WMU and Minnesota.

The Minnesota/Wisconsin game was the 5th 4th quarter meltdown in a year and a half of Claeys as a head coach. You could see that train wreck coming from a mile away.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
WMU dominated Illinois from start to finish. You could say that Wisconsin handled WMU for the majority of that game. Bowl games are different when you have a month to prepare and get healthy. Wisconsin is a more talented team than both WMU and Minnesota.

The Minnesota/Wisconsin game was the 5th 4th quarter meltdown in a year and a half of Claeys as a head coach. You could see that train wreck coming from a mile away.
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5th 4th quarter meltdown? Please explain.
 






Face The Facts said:
The talent that matters is at QB. And we just lost a 3 year starter.
Michigan, OSU, FSU, Alabaman, PSU, Notre Dame, etc, can recruit a freshman QB to start fresh in Power 5 football, but unfortunately, I don't believe we have Michigan level recruits at QB on the field this year.
That's kind of my whole point right there.
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Yeah I agree the QB is critical.

I was thinking more along the lines of that I don't recall seeing the talent level of the team being praised much outside of cases like here where folks use it to justify whatever expectation.... like only here. Like it is just a vague convenient excuse to set some random expectation.
 

Love him, but our starting QB was below average in pretty much any metric you want to use. Our offense has been anemic. That is a bad argument.

Most new coaches inherit a dumpster. Thats why the preceding coach was fired. That's not the case here. Also not a great argument.

I think our trajectory on offense can only be up. I don't know what will happen on defense, a lot depends on the abilities of the freshmen.
 



Face The Facts said:
If ...

Also, look at the records of first year coaches at MN.

Glen Mason took over a 4-7 team.
First year he went 3-9.

Brewster (hardly a good reference but what the hell)
Took over a 6-7 Bowl team.
First year he went 1-11

Kill
Took over a 3-9 team
Went 3-9 with Junior QB Marquis Gray.

Everyone did worse or at best matched the previous season record which was already bad.
If you want to compare him to the last "salesy" coach, be ready for a 5 game drop from last season.
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Yes and Wacker matched Gutey's record and Gutey matched Wacker's.

Should be noted that Mason admitted after the season that it was a big mistake to take an above average Big Ten QB and try and make him an option guy. Glen, like Brewster didn't seem to care much about winning in his first season. Mason, probably 'cuz he had a lot of experience and confidence in his abilities to turn a program around.

Brewster? He didn't have that experience, vastly overrated his ability to get the level of kids he got at Texas and UNC to come up here and used that god-awful season to sell kids on immediate playing time.

Only Gutey took over a team after a winning season. It was 6-5 when he took over from Holtz and the Bowl win took them to 7-5. Fleck is getting a team that won 5 games more than it lost.

Speaking of Holtz, he took a 1-10 team and got them to 4-7.

Gotta also remember that except for Holtz, none of the others was a ever a head coach of a D1-A level team again. Maybe not even a FCS one.

Not saying that Fleck is Holtz, but he seems to be a much better Head Coach than some people are giving him credit for. He's not whining about the talent he inherited (Kill) nor throwing way the skills of he players he was given (Mason) and he's got a track record that suggests he can Coach (unlike Brewster).

Fleck has said he sees talent on the roster and has given no indication that he's gonna throwaway this season

No reason to expect him to win 9,10, 15games but giving up on him this early in his Minnesota career just seems very short-sighted.
 

GFBfan said:
Let me get this straight. The Gophers vs. Illinois game was a lot closer than the score indicated because we were only up 1 TD going into the 4th quarter. A bunch of TO's by Illini gave us the lopsided victory. So WMU's win over the Illini was more impressive?
Well then there is this:
We led Wisc. going into the 4th quarter and if it weren't for a TO fest by us, we would have won that game. Did WMU ever lead vs. Wisc?
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Apparently your common opponent scenario isn't valid as jNU was too early in the season to look at and WI was too late in the season to look at for WMU. That only leaves IL and in that case the games were different than the scores indicated. Make sense?

I was at Champaign last year and that game was not a bit closer than the score indicates.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Also not sure why you think WMU wasn't a good team, their only loss was to Wisconsin by 8 points.
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As the lead drummer for the idea that a number of wins last year were not impressive for the Gophers, can you please explain why WMU wins against the same B1G teams and worse MAC teams was impressive? I mean, they also had more talent than us, right. 12*-1


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Spoofin said:
As the lead drummer for the idea that a number of wins last year were not impressive for the Gophers, can you please explain why WMU wins against the same B1G teams and worse MAC teams was impressive? I mean, they also had more talent than us, right. 12*-1


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I didn't say anything about any of their wins being impressive. I said they were a good team last year and pointed out their only loss was to a top 10 team. I also think the Gophers were a good team last year. I think they had similar talent level to the Gophers last year and that is backed up by win margin with the three common opponents. The Gophers were +25 and WMU was +17. I'm lead drummer of winning rivalry games and beating rivalry teams. I'm lead drummer of beating Rutgers who happened to be the worst P5 team by more than 2 points. I'm lead drummer of a coach not having 4 players expelled from the school. I'm not lead drummer for saying wins don't count like you constantly insist I am.

Stop putting words in my mouth Spoofin.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Michigan 2015. Penn St, Iowa, Nebraska, Wisconsin 2016.
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Wisconsin was a meltdown of epic proportions. I'll give you that, but that was the only one of the 5 you listed that was a complete meltdown.

We outscored Penn State in the 4th quarter, so saying that was a meltdown is a stretch. Actually battled back and took the lead in the 4th quarter. Did it suck we lost? Yes. Was it a meltdown? Hardly

Nebraska was a tie game in the 4th quarter and they scored midway through it. We were driving for the tie and threw a pick. Again the loss sucked, but not meltdown worthy.

Iowa game. Offensive play calling was crap all game. We lost, it sucked. Was it a meltdown? Don't think so.

Michigan. Complete lack of understanding by our offensive coordinator on the clock running. I certainly had a meltdown when it happened. Don't believe it was a meltdown by the team though.

So, of the 5 meltdowns, we really had one meltdown, a coaching blunder, and 3 games where we didn't make a play in the end to pull out a victory.
 

GFBfan said:
Wisconsin was a meltdown of epic proportions. I'll give you that, but that was the only one of the 5 you listed that was a complete meltdown.

We outscored Penn State in the 4th quarter, so saying that was a meltdown is a stretch. Actually battled back and took the lead in the 4th quarter. Did it suck we lost? Yes. Was it a meltdown? Hardly

Nebraska was a tie game in the 4th quarter and they scored midway through it. We were driving for the tie and threw a pick. Again the loss sucked, but not meltdown worthy.

Iowa game. Offensive play calling was crap all game. We lost, it sucked. Was it a meltdown? Don't think so.

Michigan. Complete lack of understanding by our offensive coordinator on the clock running. I certainly had a meltdown when it happened. Don't believe it was a meltdown by the team though.

So, of the 5 meltdowns, we really had one meltdown, a coaching blunder, and 3 games where we didn't make a play in the end to pull out a victory.
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You and I define meltdown differently then. Choking and meltdown are interchangeable IMO. They had a chance to win every single one of those games and choked in all of them.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
You and I define meltdown differently then. Choking and meltdown are interchangeable IMO. They had a chance to win every single one of those games and choked in all of them.
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If 2016 was a choke fest...then your low prediction for wins in 2017, should it come true, should elicit an epic reaction.

To me the story of the 2016 team was a story of defensive growth throughout the season culminating in the epic NW and WSU games. It was long stretches of offensive ineptitude culminating in a historic second half by Mitch and the offensive line at Wisconsin. It was a really good turnover ratio.

The 2017 season may start a little rough around the edges (or a lot) but the team will get better as the new guys settle in and the veterans adapt to the scheme. Predictions of disaster just don't hold water for me. I think we could be better.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
I've seen the sentiment posted before. I'm a bit confused by the idea that there is a lot of talent on this team or something.... I think there are good guys but I don't think of the Gophers as particularly talented at this point.
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That's a fair statement. By "talent" I was speaking of the fact that the Gophers return a pretty good amount of talent from a 9 win team including 2 very good RB's that will take pressure off the passing game.i would probably think different if it was a 2-3 win team returning players but we are talking about that 9 win team that had a very solid recruiting class the year before that include some red shirts who haven't seen the field yet. I guess I view the glass as half full because I believe in PJF and his staff and I think he will get the most he can out of the players.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
If 2016 was a choke fest...then your low prediction for wins in 2017, should it come true, should elicit an epic reaction.

To me the story of the 2016 team was a story of defensive growth throughout the season culminating in the epic NW and WSU games. It was long stretches of offensive ineptitude culminating in a historic second half by Mitch and the offensive line at Wisconsin. It was a really good turnover ratio.

The 2017 season may start a little rough around the edges (or a lot) but the team will get better as the new guys settle in and the veterans adapt to the scheme. Predictions of disaster just don't hold water for me. I think we could be better.
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Define 'low predictions for wins' and I haven't predicted disaster either. I really haven't made much of a prediction at all other than that I think they are less talented this year. That doesn't mean I think they're only going to win 4 games either. We won't have a clue who's starting at a bunch of positions until after fall camp.

As I said, the Gophers are walking a fine line every year. They were just as close to being a 6 win team last year as they were an 11 win team. Same thing in 2015, injuries killed them and they only won 5 in the regular season. No injuries and they could have won 8 or 9 or more.
 

The schedule in 2015 was one of the most difficult in FBS. Not so this year.
 

Regarding installation of an RPO attack and a first year coordinator, Joe Moorhead and Penn State went from 59th to 18th in one season. 101st in scoring offense to 21st. As was said before, Franklin was on the chopping block until he fired his OC and brought in some innovation. His defense was into the 4 deeps early in the year. It might have been the MN game where PSU really turned the corner. MN is installing a similar attack. Obviously much depends on the QB but we should hope for and expect a major improvement this year.



How a Fordham coach suddenly made Penn State's bland offense creative, explosive

Moorhead has guided transformations before. He turned a 1-10 Fordham team into a 12-win team within two years by relying on a run game that heavily utilized RPOs, a concept that has exploded throughout football in recent years. As defenses add extra defenders into the run game, RPOs are a way to create pass tags and provide difficult decisions for defenders. Is the quarterback going to run or throw based on pre- and post-snap reads?

Indecision by the defense can particularly help an offensive line. Moorhead's formations are so spread out with three- and four-receiver sets that there are only a couple defensive fronts Penn State will likely see. That limits the type of pressure a defense might send.

Also, variations of tempo by Penn State can keep defenses off balance. Moorhead entered the season planning to use three or four versions of tempo. The idea isn't necessarily to run the wrong play quickly, but to run the correct one as fast as possible given the defensive look presented.

http://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...penn-states-bland-offense-creative-explosive/
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Regarding installation of an RPO attack and a first year coordinator, Joe Moorhead and Penn State went from 59th to 18th in one season. 101st in scoring offense to 21st. As was said before, Franklin was on the chopping block until he fired his OC and brought in some innovation. His defense was into the 4 deeps early in the year. It might have been the MN game where PSU really turned the corner. MN is installing a similar attack. Obviously much depends on the QB but we should hope for and expect a major improvement this year.



How a Fordham coach suddenly made Penn State's bland offense creative, explosive

Moorhead has guided transformations before. He turned a 1-10 Fordham team into a 12-win team within two years by relying on a run game that heavily utilized RPOs, a concept that has exploded throughout football in recent years. As defenses add extra defenders into the run game, RPOs are a way to create pass tags and provide difficult decisions for defenders. Is the quarterback going to run or throw based on pre- and post-snap reads?

Indecision by the defense can particularly help an offensive line. Moorhead's formations are so spread out with three- and four-receiver sets that there are only a couple defensive fronts Penn State will likely see. That limits the type of pressure a defense might send.

Also, variations of tempo by Penn State can keep defenses off balance. Moorhead entered the season planning to use three or four versions of tempo. The idea isn't necessarily to run the wrong play quickly, but to run the correct one as fast as possible given the defensive look presented.

http://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...penn-states-bland-offense-creative-explosive/
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Penn St also has 4* recruits all over their offense. They were young and talented and matured as the season went on.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Penn St also has 4* recruits all over their offense. They were young and talented and matured as the season went on.
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Since we have 3* and maybe some 2*, then our jump won't be as dramatic. But, then again, we also have PJ, Matt, Kirk, Kenni, Brian and Ed who will coach the heck out of our offensive players and maybe, just maybe, we can have just as big of a jump in offensive production. Ski-U-Mah!
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Regarding installation of an RPO attack and a first year coordinator, Joe Moorhead and Penn State went from 59th to 18th in one season. 101st in scoring offense to 21st. As was said before, Franklin was on the chopping block until he fired his OC and brought in some innovation. His defense was into the 4 deeps early in the year. It might have been the MN game where PSU really turned the corner. MN is installing a similar attack. Obviously much depends on the QB but we should hope for and expect a major improvement this year.



How a Fordham coach suddenly made Penn State's bland offense creative, explosive

Moorhead has guided transformations before. He turned a 1-10 Fordham team into a 12-win team within two years by relying on a run game that heavily utilized RPOs, a concept that has exploded throughout football in recent years. As defenses add extra defenders into the run game, RPOs are a way to create pass tags and provide difficult decisions for defenders. Is the quarterback going to run or throw based on pre- and post-snap reads?

Indecision by the defense can particularly help an offensive line. Moorhead's formations are so spread out with three- and four-receiver sets that there are only a couple defensive fronts Penn State will likely see. That limits the type of pressure a defense might send.

Also, variations of tempo by Penn State can keep defenses off balance. Moorhead entered the season planning to use three or four versions of tempo. The idea isn't necessarily to run the wrong play quickly, but to run the correct one as fast as possible given the defensive look presented.

http://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...penn-states-bland-offense-creative-explosive/
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Better reserve your tickets for the national championship game!
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Penn St also has 4* recruits all over their offense. They were young and talented and matured as the season went on.
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How many 4 stars did WMU have?

PSU was indeed loaded at WR and RB. Other than that, mostly 3 stars in the 3 deeps. McSorley was a three (and had been recruited by Fleck). They had 4 stars before 2016 and really struggled. My point is coaching and scheme can make a huge difference.

Those are reasons to be optimistic! Smile guys - it's not all bad! We can win some games! Improvement on offense, play solid defense and who knows what might happen.
 


Taking the advice about PSU and 4 stars to heart I reviewed our recruit list the last few years...and I'm afraid to report our offense is going to continue to be mediocre at best and not come close to the likes of WMU. No fours. Without 4 stars our offense will surely stink again and the downward spiral will start. Time to start gargling bleach.
 

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