College Football Has Looming Attendance Issues, Especially For Cupcake Games

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Word said:
Might be time for power 5 to be one level of division 1 and then put all the g5 and fcs teams in another division.
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Yeah, in reality that is how it works. A G5 is almost certainly not going not be in the playoffs... so they're all but officially another level.
 

Word said:
Might be time for power 5 to be one level of division 1 and then put all the g5 and fcs teams in another division.
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Well, that could be a thing. But it hasn't happened so far. So far, the P5 have wanted and been more and more inclusive of the G5 over the evolution of the FBS post-season systems.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Yeah, in reality that is how it works. A G5 is almost certainly not going not be in the playoffs... so they're all but officially another level.
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With a 4 team playoff, there will likely never be a G5 in the bracket.

With 6 or 8 team, still probably unlikely, but it opens the door that much wider.

You go beyond 8 teams .... I start to wonder if the highest G5 doesn't get an autobid.
 

Somehow, someway ... I just think that we need to get to every P5 team (including Notre Dame) playing at least 10 regular season games against other P5 teams.

I would be fine with a 10 game Big Ten conference schedule.


Then from there, you start working towards 12.
 

MplsGopher said:
With a 4 team playoff, there will likely never be a G5 in the bracket.

With 6 or 8 team, still probably unlikely, but it opens the door that much wider.

You go beyond 8 teams .... I start to wonder if the highest G5 doesn't get an autobid.
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At 8 I'd be ok with an auto bid ... depending on how they do it.

However, if it ends up being a 50 to 0 thing over and over ... I wouldn't want to do that if only because I don't like the #1 team to get a sort of auto bye vs G5 all the time.
 


A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
At 8 I'd be ok with an auto bid ... depending on how they do it.

However, if it ends up being a 50 to 0 thing over and over ... I wouldn't want to do that if only because I don't like the #1 team to get a sort of auto bye vs G5 all the time.
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8 is too many. There were 3 deserving teams last year. Yes, that flucuates from year to year, but it's often in the 2-4 range.

Currently, the only way a G5 team is getting in is if they're undefeated, they play at least 1-2 ranked teams within their own conference, and at least 2-3 of their non-conference games are against P5 teams that were ranked. That is very unlikely.

If I was a fan of a G5 team, I'd be pretty annoyed, as they are orphans. The P5 teams have a clear path to winning a championship. FCS teams have a tournament and thus a clear path to winning a championship. A G5 team for all intents and purposes has no way to be a national champion. Being I'm not a fan of any of those teams, I generally don't care, as I don't want the playoff to expand. But I could see how they'd be upset about it.
 

forever a gopher said:
8 is too many. There were 3 deserving teams last year. Yes, that flucuates from year to year, but it's often in the 2-4 range.

Currently, the only way a G5 team is getting in is if they're undefeated, they play at least 1-2 ranked teams within their own conference, and at least 2-3 of their non-conference games are against P5 teams that were ranked. That is very unlikely.

If I was a fan of a G5 team, I'd be pretty annoyed, as they are orphans. The P5 teams have a clear path to winning a championship. FCS teams have a tournament and thus a clear path to winning a championship. A G5 team for all intents and purposes has no way to be a national champion. Being I'm not a fan of any of those teams, I generally don't care, as I don't want the playoff to expand. But I could see how they'd be upset about it.
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It's a strange world.

And then if you suggest G5 should maybe get their own championchip man those fans get upset because you're excluding them.... and I kinda get that but man ... there's no G5 that deserves a playoff spot. Not even close as it is now.

IMO it would take like two years of brutal scheduling for a G5 to really get the nod ... unfair, but also the only way ...
 

Yes I agree, it is a bit strange.

But G5 fans truly get more enjoyment in chasing a NY6 bowl bid and potential upset in that game, than they do thinking about a G5 natty bracket.

For G5 fans, it's like that chase of the P5, is all that matters to them. And they're eternally spurred on by the few programs who have ascended in the past couple decades, Utah and Louisville.
 

MplsGopher said:
Yes I agree, it is a bit strange.

But G5 fans truly get more enjoyment in chasing a NY6 bowl bid and potential upset in that game, than they do thinking about a G5 natty bracket.

For G5 fans, it's like that chase of the P5, is all that matters to them. And they're eternally spurred on by the few programs who have ascended in the past couple decades, Utah and Louisville.
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Dear G5,

The playoffs just aren't that into you....

- CFB
 



You could argue that the CFP doesn't want a G5 natty bracket, competing for attention/coverage with the big boys.

So they throw the G5 a few bones to appease them, and string them along.
 

Veritas said:
Why don't people say that NFL teams should not play pre season games either? Don't they play five or is it six per year? Why do they need to get their rosters straightened out and the college teams do not?
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They don't count. They are glorified scrimmages.
 

MplsGopher said:
Somehow, someway ... I just think that we need to get to every P5 team (including Notre Dame) playing at least 10 regular season games against other P5 teams.

I would be fine with a 10 game Big Ten conference schedule.


Then from there, you start working towards 12.
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With all P5 teams wanting seven home games, the scheduling gets almost logistically undoable.
 

If they can get more money overall from TV for 12 quality P5 games per team ... that might be worth it over 7 home games with 2-4 of them being duds.
 



MplsGopher said:
You could argue that the CFP doesn't want a G5 natty bracket, competing for attention/coverage with the big boys.

So they throw the G5 a few bones to appease them, and string them along.
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I think it is more that ... the G5 really doesn't have a top 4 team. Unless we see a big change... won't ever in the current system.

It's not a conspiracy, they're just not that good.
 

Veritas said:
Why don't people say that NFL teams should not play pre season games either? Don't they play five or is it six per year? Why do they need to get their rosters straightened out and the college teams do not?
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The NFL does not need pre season games. Allow teams to do what ever to their rosters and then at game 5 you need to finalize a roster and play by what ever rules they have in place now. All games should count. The NFL is boring and nothing happens really until about game 10
 

gopherjay said:
The NFL does not need pre season games. Allow teams to do what ever to their rosters and then at game 5 you need to finalize a roster and play by what ever rules they have in place now. All games should count. The NFL is boring and nothing happens really until about game 10
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It's handy for forcing season ticket holders to buy extra tickets ;)
 

Given that the FCS Division finished 2019 with an overall record of 3- 111 versus FBS teams I guess we can call them cupcakes can’t we?
 


MplsGopher said:
Somehow, someway ... I just think that we need to get to every P5 team (including Notre Dame) playing at least 10 regular season games against other P5 teams.

I would be fine with a 10 game Big Ten conference schedule.


Then from there, you start working towards 12.
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if the B1G played 12 P5 games, you’d have some 1-11, 2-10 teams regularly, and heads would roll. Playing OCC games that are winnable for the weaker teams moves records to 4-8 or 5-7, and has the appearance of more success. Resulting in fewer coaches fired. That’s why lesgues play OOC games, and why they schedule the way they do.
 

Herd said:
if the B1G played 12 P5 games, you’d have some 1-11, 2-10 teams regularly, and heads would roll. Playing OCC games that are winnable for the weaker teams moves records to 4-8 or 5-7, and has the appearance of more success. Resulting in fewer coaches fired. That’s why lesgues play OOC games, and why they schedule the way they do.
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Maybe, maybe not. The lower teams could try to win some more conf games, or ADs could recalibrate their expectations.
 

salzie said:
Beating Dakota school does nothing for MN, they're expected to win. As much as you want them to be, NDSU is not a rival of the gophers.

If we lose, it's bad
If we win, it's meh

Gophers were 11-2 last year. I'd put SDSU game only ahead of Rutgers in terms of interest I had in it. Dakota schools draw in Dakota fans, not Gopher fans who I'm interested in drawing in.
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Fair take. But I think last year's schedule was absolutely fine. In fact, it was fortunate. When we played SDSU, we didn't play well. And they were good. We frankly got lucky. If it had been almost any quality FBS opponent that day, we would have likely lost. Then guess what... no matter what, we are not undefeated going into Penn State game. That game doesn't sell out. We do not have the debate about Gameday coming here that day. We do not get nearly as much national exposure. If the rest of the season goes the way it did, Gameday does not come here against Wisconsin. We don't get Outback Bowl bid. We never beat Auburn. Instead of our Outback bowl win, we are basking in the glow of our most recent trip to the Music City Bowl or something and we are trying to impress recruits with that. Then I am personally left with another middling feeling about the season. That leads to extreme crabbiness at home. My wife gets fed up with my pouting and leaves me. I spend the rest of the offseason drinking cheap booze at the Local Legion Club, listening to classic country songs.

So I say bring on one or two "cupcakes" every year. They often do not turn out that way. Our "cupcake" schedule this season set us up for the best season in Gopherland in forever. In hindsight, brilliant, and it just might have been a life changing decision for me!
 
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Crosby said:
If it had been almost any quality FBS opponent that day, we would have likely lost.
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I get why you're saying, but it's an almost impossible argument to make convincingly, because of one thing you can't discount: the idea that the Gophers "overlooked" or didn't take SDSU "seriously" because they were FCS.

No matter what Fleck and players claimed, they are still human. It was supposed to be an "easy", run up the score victory, in the opening game, to get backups some playing time.

At least, that was the intention when it was scheduled, years ago.
 

The only way to change this is by changing the approach to scheduling:
  1. reward teams for scheduling OOC P5 games by reflecting in rankings
  2. Limit non-P5 play to one G5 game each year (independents such as Notre Dame, BYU, and Army count as P5 for the purposes of this exercise)
  3. Teams should also be able to blend their schedules so that OOC games can be played at any time throughout the season.
  4. End play against FCS teams unless it’s to preserve some sort of historic rivalry
 

Mitu said:
The only way to change this is by changing the approach to scheduling:
  1. reward teams for scheduling OOC P5 games by reflecting in rankings
  2. Limit non-P5 play to one G5 game each year (independents such as Notre Dame, BYU, and Army count as P5 for the purposes of this exercise)
  3. Teams should also be able to blend their schedules so that OOC games can be played at any time throughout the season.
  4. End play against FCS teams unless it’s to preserve some sort of historic rivalry
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Scheduling becomes an issue with maintaining 7 home games for P5 conferences. I also would not consider BYU or Army as P5 level programs.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Scheduling becomes an issue with maintaining 7 home games for P5 conferences. I also would not consider BYU or Army as P5 level programs.
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Yeah, it’s a fair point. The only alternative is to make an exception for Notre Dame and put all the other independents in the G5 bucket.
 

The whole key to it is the 7 home games thing.

One possible way to mitigate that would be to allow every team to have one "pre-season" game. Obviously then these will all be P5 teams paying out for a buy game, to get their 7th home game.

You get the revenue of the 7th home, and it doesn't count in the W-L, so you're guaranteed to get some time for backups to play. If you lose to an FCS team that you schedule, for example ... who cares? It doesn't count.
 

Mitu said:
Yeah, it’s a fair point. The only alternative is to make an exception for Notre Dame and put all the other independents in the G5 bucket.
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This is probably true, but I wouldn't want to schedule an Academy team anyway. They all have those option offenses and they can bite you in the butt if you aren't careful. All three of them have taken some of the top programs in the country right down to the wire in the last few years. I'll pass on those, thank you.
 

Crosby said:
This is probably true, but I wouldn't want to schedule an Academy team anyway. They all have those option offenses and they can bite you in the butt if you aren't careful. All three of them have taken some of the top programs in the country right down to the wire in the last few years. I'll pass on those, thank you.
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100%. Same reason I would never schedule NDSU.
 

Minnesota often has more trouble with the good FCS teams than the mediocre-to-bad MAC or even Big Ten teams. Florida Atlantic will likely be tougher than a couple Big Ten games. I don't think quality scheduling is as simple as what tier of league the opponent plays in. With schedules set 5-10 years in advance there's luck involved.

I think it would help attendance if schools were more mindful of scheduling rivalries of interest for non-conference games. There would be many more butts in seats for NDSU-Minnesota than FAU-Minnesota.
 

fmlizard said:
Minnesota often has more trouble with the good FCS teams than the mediocre-to-bad MAC or even Big Ten teams. Florida Atlantic will likely be tougher than a couple Big Ten games. I don't think quality scheduling is as simple as what tier of league the opponent plays in. With schedules set 5-10 years in advance there's luck involved.

I think it would help attendance if schools were more mindful of scheduling rivalries of interest for non-conference games. There would be many more butts in seats for NDSU-Minnesota than FAU-Minnesota.
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But would they get more butts in seats for Iowa State or Kansas State?
 

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