Claeys Announces Changes To Staff - Limegrover & Zebrowski are gone per U

[Spoofin]

Also possible that Claeys knew or felt that Limegrover would have trouble taking a demotion and answering to an Offensive Coordinator. Better to cut him loose now so he he can look for a job before the new hiring rounds begin.

Agreed. Triple awkward. Demotion at same school with many of the same players/coaches, answering to new OC, & working for long-time colleague in TC. I think it would be really hard to make that situation work.

 

[Section2]

It's not a short leash. Next year will be Claeys 6th year at the University of Minnesota. He has been the top paid assistant at this school for 5 years, and heavily involved in recruiting. These are his players too, not just Kill's. He's not starting over.

As others mentioned before Claeys was hired full time, if this coaching search was opened up nationally, would Claeys have been the choice? Likely not. He was hired as the only in house prospect to keep continuity. This is not a new coach inheriting someone else's players. Currently the Kill/Claeys era is 15-25 in the B1G. If the Gophers go 5-4 next year, that's 20-29 over 6 years. Is that good enough?

It's his first year as the head coach. Just stop. Mitch leidner is claeys player? The OL are his players? Streveler is his? The defense has been very solid the last three years, best we've had in decades maybe. That success counts against him?
You are really nuts. I like you, but you're saying things that are crazy. In blaming the barometric pressure

 

[Iceland12]

Tracy isn't the only Big Ten Head Coach not renewing assistants:
Penn State fired offensive coordinator John Donovan.
Purdue fired both of its coordinators.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...red-georgia-college-football-coaching-changes

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

It's his first year as the head coach. Just stop. Mitch leidner is claeys player? The OL are his players? Streveler is his? The defense has been very solid the last three years, best we've had in decades maybe. That success counts against him?
You are really nuts. I like you, but you're saying things that are crazy. In blaming the barometric pressure

I just want to beat Wisconsin more than twice in 21 years. I mean it's Wisconsin, not Michigan or Ohio St. I just want one 11 win season. Is that so much to ask?

I became really dejected when I saw Wisconsin roll over us in the first half with a young O-line and a walk-on RB. Still hungover from that, and it has soured my outlook for the future. Hire an interesting offensive coordinator and maybe a JUCO QB commit as well, then I'll feel a little better.

 

[saintpaulguy]

Turns out Kill was a Tubby Smith type hire.

 

[Buttcheeks McGaffigan]

Tracy isn't the only Big Ten Head Coach not renewing assistants:
Penn State fired offensive coordinator John Donovan.
Purdue fired both of its coordinators.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...red-georgia-college-football-coaching-changes

The only reason Purdue didn't fire Hazell(who's getting worse) is because his buyout is too much.

 

[upnorthkid]

Guys, we really haven't explored all the options. What if Claeys goes 12-0, destroys Urban Meyer in the BT CG and refuses to shake his hand, causing Urban to retire on the spot, and then the day after guiding us to a semifinal win over Alabama, elects to take the vacated OSU job, leaving us to lose the national championship to USC on a last second FG, leaving our program in shambles? Guys! what if?

 

[beavergopher]

I just want to beat Wisconsin more than twice in 21 years. I mean it's Wisconsin, not Michigan or Ohio St. I just want one 11 win season. Is that so much to ask?

I became really dejected when I saw Wisconsin roll over us in the first half with a young O-line and a walk-on RB. Still hungover from that, and it has soured my outlook for the future. Hire an interesting offensive coordinator and maybe a JUCO QB commit as well, then I'll feel a little better.

I'm with you.

 

[jovs]

Tubby Smith with 21-13 and made it to the 3rd round of the NCAA and was fired. 8-4 is definitely a fireable season if its headed the wrong direction, especially in this town.

You are cherry picking your stats.

6-12
6-12
8-10

B1G record his last three seasons with a huge recruiting drop off.

With a nine game B1G football season that comes to 10 wins in three seasons, or 3-6, 3-6, 4-5, is that enough for Claeys to keep his job, maybe, I doubt it.

 

[DoubleAlum]

I suspect Claeys thinks finding an OC is going to be easier than it really is. Given our track record for attracting coaches to UofM, Claeys may be in for a rude awakening when he hears "no thanks" over and over. Unless of course he goes the "road less traveled".

 

[EG#9]

I just want to beat Wisconsin more than twice in 21 years. I mean it's Wisconsin, not Michigan or Ohio St. I just want one 11 win season. Is that so much to ask?

I became really dejected when I saw Wisconsin roll over us in the first half with a young O-line and a walk-on RB. Still hungover from that, and it has soured my outlook for the future. Hire an interesting offensive coordinator and maybe a JUCO QB commit as well, then I'll feel a little better.

You don't have to apologize or keep defending your position. Just because a poster or two on a message board doesn't like your opinion or perspective it doesn't make you wrong. It's completely rational to have the opinion that the Claeys hire is an extension of the Kill era and that he's more like an interim head coach than a brand new guy starting over given the circumstances in which he was hired. Others can view it differently, and that is ok too. Given how you view next year (year 6 as opposed to year 1) it's completely fine to believe that 8-4 with a schedule very similar (on paper) to what Iowa went undefeated with is not good enough to maintain the status quo.

My opinion is we need more fans like yourself who want to raise the bar a bit and not be afraid of the risk of going backwards when you no longer see legitimate upside in the current direction. You've truly given up when you start thinking of .500 B1G seasons as success. If we are going to continue to allow past failure/poor performance to set the bar, then we never will see those occasional 11 win seasons you talk about and the Axe won't be in the Cities any more frequently than the Summer Olympics are held.

Hopefully, Coach Claeys will find an OC to come in and move the program forward on that side of the ball.

 

[dpodoll68]

You are cherry picking your stats.

6-12
6-12
8-10

B1G record his last three seasons with a huge recruiting drop off.

With a nine game B1G football season that comes to 10 wins in three seasons, or 3-6, 3-6, 4-5, is that enough for Claeys to keep his job, maybe, I doubt it.

Basketball and football are completely different. All that matters in basketball is getting to the Tournament and winning games there. UConn won a national title while going 9-9 and finishing 9th in their own conference. In football, you have to have 2 conference losses or less to have a realistic shot of winning your conference, much less the national title. Conference records in basketball are only relevant insofar as they bring you a conference title and/or NCAA tournament berth. Second place or ninth place in your conference are no different as long as you make it to the Tournament and win lots of games. Of course, the Tubby Haters harp on irrelevant conference records and ignore that he made an unprecedented 3 Tournament appearances in 6 years and also notched the first Tournament win at this school in 23 years. He sucks so much that he dominated his handpicked successor head-to-head despite taking over a job in far worse shape than here. Haters gotta hate, though.

 

[goldenboy]

BS on conference records not meaning anything. If you have a strong conference finish you are a good team. Good teams are going to win more in the tourney. Winning a few tourney games after a mediocre season is lucky. That's why we always felt like we got away with something during the runs Clem had. We were happy to be David. I'm hoping we can eventually become one of the Goliaths. Mediocre conference finishes are exactly why Tubby was fired. Even though he beat UCLA in the tourney (and Teague isn't the only AD that would have done it).

 

[Section2]

You don't have to apologize or keep defending your position. Just because a poster or two on a message board doesn't like your opinion or perspective it doesn't make you wrong. It's completely rational to have the opinion that the Claeys hire is an extension of the Kill era and that he's more like an interim head coach than a brand new guy starting over given the circumstances in which he was hired. Others can view it differently, and that is ok too. Given how you view next year (year 6 as opposed to year 1) it's completely fine to believe that 8-4 with a schedule very similar (on paper) to what Iowa went undefeated with is not good enough to maintain the status quo.

My opinion is we need more fans like yourself who want to raise the bar a bit and not be afraid of the risk of going backwards when you no longer see legitimate upside in the current direction. You've truly given up when you start thinking of .500 B1G seasons as success. If we are going to continue to allow past failure/poor performance to set the bar, then we never will see those occasional 11 win seasons you talk about and the Axe won't be in the Cities any more frequently than the Summer Olympics are held.

Hopefully, Coach Claeys will find an OC to come in and move the program forward on that side of the ball.

It's not raising the bar to fire a coach in year one after an 8-4 start. It's lunacy. No one is suggesting that's a reasonable ceiling. But one year firings aren't ceilings. Football programs are a process and need to be built. Your logic would have led to the firing of Kirk ferments last year (if not much sooner). Don't even bother hiring claeys if you aren't prepared to watch him build this team and measure progress rationally. if it doesn't work out, the program will be in very good shape for the next coach. No quick fixes.

 

[WHB Brewer]

Tracy isn't the only Big Ten Head Coach not renewing assistants:
Penn State fired offensive coordinator John Donovan.
Purdue fired both of its coordinators.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...red-georgia-college-football-coaching-changes

Purdue actually had a better offense than the Gophers this year.
369 yds/gm (vs 357)
25.1 ppg (vs 22.6)

Penn St & Northwestern are the only B10 teams with a worse overall offense than ours this past season.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

It's not raising the bar to fire a coach in year one after an 8-4 start. It's lunacy. No one is suggesting that's a reasonable ceiling. But one year firings aren't ceilings. Football programs are a process and need to be built. Your logic would have led to the firing of Kirk ferments last year (if not much sooner). Don't even bother hiring claeys if you aren't prepared to watch him build this team and measure progress rationally. if it doesn't work out, the program will be in very good shape for the next coach. No quick fixes.

The difference is you view next year as year 1, I don't. As of today, 7 of the 10 allowed coaches will be in their 6th year at Minnesota next year. If you count Dan O'Brien, 8 of 10 have been here 6 years or longer. It's year 6 of the same program, with some new tweaks to the offense. It is not a restart.

 

[Gopher Oracle]

Bingo. That's the obvious deduction. Amazes me no reporter asks those questions? It's so damn obvious. Just a nice way of parting ways. But so obvious it's because Claey's doesn't think Limegrover is good enough for either position

I am going to shed some light on this topic from what I know...Limegrover was not well liked from what I was told by a direct source. My source has a direct source to the team which I am 100% confident is true. A few weeks back after Kill retired I asked this person since I knew he was connected directly about what he knew about the Kill retirement and he stated that they all really liked playing for Kill and was difficult to see him have to go. In the same instance he said to me "Limegrover is an ass, really arrogant and cocky and players didn't like him." When the news hit about the Limey and Zeb getting fired my source said that they had spoken to his source and stated " he was glad he was gone"

This tells me a lot, it first tells me that TC was well aware of this and needed to do something about I. Hard to get your players to play as hard as they can and coach them up when they don't respect the OC/OL coach. TC also stated that he is keeping 80% of the offense in tact, Limegrover easily could have switched the offense up the way TC wanted it. So the move to get rid of Limey wasn't about X & 0s it was about getting a better culture for everyone involved. Its obvious Kill tolerated it but TC wasn't going to let it go on anymore. Limey was putting on a good recruiting face but once the kids were on the team he really rubbed them the wrong way. I am willing to bet when the U hired TC this was discussed and the U knew the contracts were not going to get renewed. No way TC pulls that move over the U, you don't go in to the negotiations and say "Hey hire me nothing is changing I promise, we need to keep the continuity of the coaching staff" and then go fire the OC/OL coach and QB coach. Which is likely why Limey said he had no clue this was going to happen and thought it better for all parties involved that he decline an interview.

Just my thoughts...

 

[RolGnav]

One thing with Coach Kill is... he is way too nice and too loyal to ever "fire" any of his coaches. Glad Coach Claeys isn't as loyal. I really didn't see anything to look forward to next year if things weren't shaken up. Now I think we at least have some hope.

 

[WHB Brewer]

Went back and looked at Limey's offense performance from 2004 to present.
His offense produced top 10 results at Southern Illinois and has been riding that wave ever since.
His offense at Northern Illinois finished 72 (2008), 75 ('09), and #10 ('10).
At UMN it has been 110, 105, 94, 91, 100
For the past 8 years he has produced one season that has been better than top 70 in the nation.
If you look at Northern Illinois since Kill left, they have been 5,10,3,22,33. The last 2 years are after Jordan Lynch left with only a slight drop-off.
Claeys must look at that and it is pretty obvious that Limegrover was not the man for the job.

For fairness in comparison, Claeys has had a defense finish in the top 60 every year since 2008, with 5 of 8 yrs being in the top 40.

 

[EG#9]

It's not raising the bar to fire a coach in year one after an 8-4 start. It's lunacy. No one is suggesting that's a reasonable ceiling. But one year firings aren't ceilings. Football programs are a process and need to be built. Your logic would have led to the firing of Kirk ferments last year (if not much sooner). Don't even bother hiring claeys if you aren't prepared to watch him build this team and measure progress rationally. if it doesn't work out, the program will be in very good shape for the next coach. No quick fixes.

First of all, it's not my opinion it's his...which he's entitled to. Kirk Ferentz is a terrible example. He's finished in the TOP TEN in the NATION 4 times with 2 shares of the B1G Title. He's had two losing conference records in the last 15 years. He's accomplished so much more than any coach the Gophers have had in that time span that it's laughable (and very embarrassing as a Gopher fan). History has shown that if you don't win something significant within your first five years, you are extremely unlikely to ever win anything significant. Frank Beamer is an exception to this, but when its happened at Iowa, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Michigan State, Baylor, TCU and other places it has happened within that coaches first 5 years on the job.

Personally, I'd like to see the coaching concepts and recruiting style of this staff to start to bear fruit sooner rather than later. It should have been alarming to most how this team was physically handled in a rivalry game by a Wisconsin team who could hardly score against Northwestern the week prior. I don't view next year as wiping the slate clean and starting over and I don't think the future AD will either. I think the contract the current administration (probably wisely) gave Claeys points to this being much more of a tryout than a commitment. Hopefully none of this will matter and the Gophers will take advantage of a weak schedule in the same manner Iowa did this year.

The other area I disagree with you is that if it doesn't work out with Claeys, the program will be in very good shape for the next coach. This is rarely the case and almost assuredly wouldn't be the case for the coach who follows Claeys. A coach will likely see a program who is X number of years removed from its last winning conference season and has a roster with just 1 class out of 4 that would have finished in the top half of the conference recruiting rankings with the other 3 solidly in the bottom quadrant. That's not a knock on Claeys at all, it's just the reality of the majority of openings that occur at places outside of the Michigan's and Alabama's of the world.

 

[highwayman]

This would at least add some intrigue to the off season. Since this staff has been together for so long with little outside connections, who does Claeys hire? Who does he know/trust for the jobs?

What?????

 

[MaxyJR1]

Maybe Claeys saw the talent of Jeff Jones and agrees with Gopherhole that a new OC will get him on the field.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

The difference is you view next year as year 1, I don't. As of today, 7 of the 10 allowed coaches will be in their 6th year at Minnesota next year. If you count Dan O'Brien, 8 of 10 have been here 6 years or longer. It's year 6 of the same program, with some new tweaks to the offense. It is not a restart.

Even with this stance, a coach will not get fired from the U of MN for going 8-4 and finishing over .500 in the Big 10.


You can have a "higher standard", whatever that means, all you want. That's on you. In reality, the football coach's job is 100% safe at 8-4.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Went back and looked at Limey's offense performance from 2004 to present.
His offense produced top 10 results at Southern Illinois and has been riding that wave ever since.
His offense at Northern Illinois finished 72 (2008), 75 ('09), and #10 ('10).
At UMN it has been 110, 105, 94, 91, 100
For the past 8 years he has produced one season that has been better than top 70 in the nation.
If you look at Northern Illinois since Kill left, they have been 5,10,3,22,33. The last 2 years are after Jordan Lynch left with only a slight drop-off.
Claeys must look at that and it is pretty obvious that Limegrover was not the man for the job.

For fairness in comparison, Claeys has had a defense finish in the top 60 every year since 2008, with 5 of 8 yrs being in the top 40.

Not defending Limegrover as I am fine with the change, but those numbers alone don't tell the whole story. The type of offense we have run affects these numbers because we have never run an uptempo offense like many others do. Less plays during a game means less yardage and less points scored. In 2014 the offense was 48th in the country in points per play. Teams like Northern Illinois and North Carolina averaged more points per game but less points per play because of their style of play. You also have to consider that the style of offense helped the defensive numbers as well.

Of course this year we went down to 94th in points per play which is not good.

 

[Section2]

The difference is you view next year as year 1, I don't. As of today, 7 of the 10 allowed coaches will be in their 6th year at Minnesota next year. If you count Dan O'Brien, 8 of 10 have been here 6 years or longer. It's year 6 of the same program, with some new tweaks to the offense. It is not a restart.

I would agree with you if Claeys hadn't fired the offensive staff. This is a very different direction, I'd like to see the results before blowing things up completely.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Even with this stance, a coach will not get fired from the U of MN for going 8-4 and finishing over .500 in the Big 10.


You can have a "higher standard", whatever that means, all you want. That's on you. In reality, the football coach's job is 100% safe at 8-4.

EG#9 made good points above about coaches taking over programs and having a great season, 10+ wins in the first 5 years. So far our 'great' season is 8-5. 8-5 is mediocre in college football and doesn't get you ranked in the top 25.

As it appears right now, next year will be the easiest schedule the Kill/Claeys program has faced in their time here. You may be right, but you don't know 100% what the next AD will think. There is a reason Claeys buyout is only 500k.

We'll see what happens next year. I hope Claeys wins 10 games and none of this matters.

 

[Bad Gopher]

First of all, it's not my opinion it's his...which he's entitled to. Kirk Ferentz is a terrible example. He's finished in the TOP TEN in the NATION 4 times with 2 shares of the B1G Title. He's had two losing conference records in the last 15 years. He's accomplished so much more than any coach the Gophers have had in that time span that it's laughable (and very embarrassing as a Gopher fan). History has shown that if you don't win something significant within your first five years, you are extremely unlikely to ever win anything significant. Frank Beamer is an exception to this, but when its happened at Iowa, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Michigan State, Baylor, TCU and other places it has happened within that coaches first 5 years on the job.

Personally, I'd like to see the coaching concepts and recruiting style of this staff to start to bear fruit sooner rather than later. It should have been alarming to most how this team was physically handled in a rivalry game by a Wisconsin team who could hardly score against Northwestern the week prior. I don't view next year as wiping the slate clean and starting over and I don't think the future AD will either. I think the contract the current administration (probably wisely) gave Claeys points to this being much more of a tryout than a commitment. Hopefully none of this will matter and the Gophers will take advantage of a weak schedule in the same manner Iowa did this year.

The other area I disagree with you is that if it doesn't work out with Claeys, the program will be in very good shape for the next coach. This is rarely the case and almost assuredly wouldn't be the case for the coach who follows Claeys. A coach will likely see a program who is X number of years removed from its last winning conference season and has a roster with just 1 class out of 4 that would have finished in the top half of the conference recruiting rankings with the other 3 solidly in the bottom quadrant. That's not a knock on Claeys at all, it's just the reality of the majority of openings that occur at places outside of the Michigan's and Alabama's of the world.

Stellar post. The only thing I question is the bolded. I hope it's true, but I know how easy it is to lose momentum and not be able to regain it.

 

[leadpipegopher]

So five years to win something significant or you're out, I think that's a tough gig at the U, especially given salary we pay, recent history, traditional support from administration, facilities. That's one of the things I loved about kill is that he fought tooth and nail to open the administration's eyes to a lot of things. You may not think he was a great coach, but he knew what it took to run a program. Had us playing for a west division crown in fourth year. Plus ran a clean program, liked his values. It was something I was proud of and want to see if claeys can build on.
I can tell EG is really upset about the Wisconsin game, yes they were using redshirt freshman on the line, they manhandled our depleted line in the first half, but I don't think it's nearly as egregious given the crazy circumstances this year.
Totally respect your opinion, I just come at it from a different view. Looking forward to what claeys can do the next couple years, I'm willing to let things play out.

 

[dpodoll68]

8-5 is mediocre in college football and doesn't get you ranked in the top 25.

Teams with 8-5 records are ranked all the time. Auburn was ranked 22 in last year's final AP poll with an 8-5 record. Michigan was ranked 24 in the final 2012 AP poll at 8-5. FSU was 23rd in the final 2005 AP poll at 8-5. Florida 24th in final 2003 AP Poll at 8-5. And so on.

 

[Winasota Gopher]

Teams with 8-5 records are ranked all the time. Auburn was ranked 22 in last year's final AP poll with an 8-5 record. Michigan was ranked 24 in the final 2012 AP poll at 8-5. FSU was 23rd in the final 2005 AP poll at 8-5. Florida 24th in final 2003 AP Poll at 8-5. And so on.