Chip: When (not if) Gophers test COVID-19-positive, time to listen to doctors and not loudest voices

The "loudest voice" that Chip is referring to is the money that football generates for the schools across the country. Not even politics is going to be able to get in front of that train. Football is coming, and there was never a doubt
 

Clemson already back. 20+ football players have tested positive. All were asymptotic. They and players they have hung around with (30 in total) are in a 14-day quarantine, on campus. That’s probably how we’ll handle it, too.
 

Unfortunately, political posturing underlies most Covid-19 posts. Policy choices will never be perfect but there is clarity concerning at risk populations. We need approaches that strive to protect those most at risk and allow those wishing to resume some level of normality to get on with their lives.

Data summaries sourced from the June 21 MN Dept. of Public Health Covid-19 Dash Board shown below. Normalized summaries (i.e., rates per 100,000) calculated using US Census data.

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It was never an accepted concept that if we shut everything down, and social distance, that this virus was going to disappear entirely right? I thought they expect over half of the U.S. population to get this shit at some point. I’m confused as to what the goal is anymore. If people feel like they’re at high risk of death if they get it, then they can stay locked inside as long as they want. Let those that want to resume life get back to it.
 


Your dead wrong, Vandy. A few years down the line this is how Covid-19 will be written about and portrayed in books and movies:

In countries keeping the coronavirus at bay, experts watch U.S. case numbers with alarm

As coronavirus cases surge in states across the South and West of the United States, health experts in countries with falling case numbers are watching with a growing sense of alarm and disbelief, with many wondering why virus-stricken U.S. states continue to reopen and why the advice of scientists is often ignored.

It really does feel like the U.S. has given up,” said Siouxsie Wiles, an infectious-diseases specialist at the University of Auckland in New Zealand a country that has confirmed only three new cases over the last three weeks and where citizens have now largely returned to their pre-coronavirus routines. “I can’t imagine what it must be like having to go to work knowing it’s unsafe,” Wiles said of the U.S.-wide economic reopening. “It’s hard to see how this ends. There are just going to be more and more people infected, and more and more deaths. It’s heartbreaking.”

Commentators and experts in Europe, where cases have continued to decline, voiced concerns over the state of the U.S. response. A headline on the website of Germany’s public broadcaster read: “Has the U.S. given up its fight against coronavirus?” Switzerland’s conservative Neue Zürcher Zeitung newspaper concluded, “U.S. increasingly accepts rising covid-19 numbers.”


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Whereas the U.S. response to the crisis has at times appeared disconnected from American scientists’ publicly available findings, U.S. researchers’ conclusions informed the actions of foreign governments. “A large portion of [Germany’s] measures that proved effective was based on studies by leading U.S. research institutes,” said Karl Lauterbach, a Harvard-educated epidemiologist who is a member of the German parliament for the Social Democrats, who are part of the coalition government.

Regarding the effectiveness of face masks, Lauterbach added, “we almost entirely relied on U.S. studies.” Germany was among the first major European countries to make face masks mandatory on public transport and in supermarkets.

European researchers dispute that the U.S. government’s reliance on scientists to inform decision-making comes anywhere near the degree to which many European policymakers have relied on researchers. After consulting U.S. research and German studies, for instance, German leaders agreed to make reopening dependent on case numbers, meaning restrictions snap back or reopening gets put on hold if the case numbers in a given region exceed a certain threshold.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...s-case-numbers-with-alarm/ar-BB15HYrB#image=2
This is all true. But unless the global number of cases reaches 0, there will be spread later in places like the EU.

Unless all cases globally are isolated and contained, here immunity via vaccine or contraction is how you stop the spread.

new zealand could maybe keep it off their island. There is zero doubt more cases will emerge in the EU at some point.
 

Regardless of whether or not there is a 2020 college football season (I'd say its 50/50) I'm comforted by all the infectious disease expertise on the GopherHole.
 

The US Pandemic Team that was dismantled by the current administration stopped the SARS and MERS virus from gaining foothold in the US.

Between the Chinese delaying/lying to tell the world when the first CoVid cases occurred in China, the world has missed an opportunity.

Uhhhh, they had nothing to do with SARS(cov1) or MERS. Both those pandemics occurred in 2003 and 2004.... the ONLY thing that stopped them was pure nature. The virus began to mutate and could no longer take hold in human bodies... 1592803332907.png
 

Yep, unknown unintended consequences. How many lives (and their physical and mental health) are positively affected by social activities and sports?

Well, we kinda know the consequences of just ignoring the coronavirus like it don't exist. It really f*ucked up the lives of 120,000 people this spring.
 




Well, we kinda know the consequences of just ignoring the coronavirus like it don't exist. It really f*ucked up the lives of 120,000 people this spring.

All the facts and figure whizzed by? Do you have a coherent argument? Here, I’ll help you: college students will spread the virus amongst each other (yep), college students will spread the virus to vulnerable staff members (maybe, but probably not if precautions are taken), students will spread the virus to family or housemates at home (maybe, but probably not if precautions are taken), athletes will spread the virus to each other (yep), infected athletes are likely to suffer permanent sequelae or death (not based on current understanding), shutting down schools and sports have numerous mental health ramifications (yep).
 
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Agree. COV2 is a different animal, longer incubation, more asymptomatic spread, fairly contagious, moderate to high virulence, lethal to some. Precautions necessary and important. Some will find those easy and others will need to make (for them) difficult and major habit changes. Some would rather everyone bunker for 18-24 months but that is not feasible. Soft lockdowns were not the answer either. There is no perfect answer.
 

I imagine the irony of you claiming politics and emotions tainting the science is pretty much lost on you.

I never said it was tainting the science. I said it was tainting the data points being inputted. Please, don't put words into my mouth. Emotions and politics from both sides have created a reporting system that hasn't been as precise as it should and has hindered making sound scientific judgement because the data is inexact at best and flat out wrong at worst.

Hahahaha. "Well respected" doctors saying don't wear masks. That's funny.

Are they telling you to eat grass fed bone broth, on Alex Jones' radio show?

would you name some of your "well-respected doctors" please?
I said some well-respected doctors who say masks may not help. That is a fact.

The big knocker that Barreiro has on every week from Mayo Dr. Bill Morice says he doubts masks help much and only wears one because his wife tells him to, and the U of M's very own Michael Osterholm has insisted all along that masks may do more harm than good by fooling people into a false sense of security.

Not only are those two doctors well-respected, they are considered two of the foremost experts in COVID 19. And, they represent two highly-respected institutions on the forefront of COVID research and advancement.

For the record, I believe in wearing a mask and do so every time I go into a public place. I made no personal proclamation in my previous post about my own beliefs. I was just pointing out unemotionally and as a matter of fact that there is a wide array of medical opinion on this, from many well-respected doctors. In addition, the CDC has changed it's stance several times on several topics. So which doctors should we choose to listen to?

But, you two guys go ahead and emotionally jump to conclusions and label me. Speaking of irony.....
 
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All the facts and figure whizzed by? Do you have a coherent argument? Here, I’ll help you: college students will spread the virus amongst each other (yep), college students will spread the virus to vulnerable staff members (maybe, but probably not if precautions are taken), students will spread the virus to family or housemates at home (maybe, but probably not if precautions are taken), athletes will spread the virus to each other (yep), infected athletes are likely to suffer permanent sequelae or death (not based on current understanding), shutting down schools and sports have numerous mental health ramifications (yep).

Health experts have been saying that you minimize risk of exposure sheltering in place, social distancing, and shortening public interactions. See one expert's take on risk ranking of day to day activities for covid in the video below.

Make your social footprint as small as possible. Be a hermit. Of course, you'd have to come out for air every once in a while. You get lulled into tranquility, and then it gets you.

It is going to be a challenge for educators and sports coaches. For all of us.

Colleges and universities cannot afford to lost a whole school year or an entire sports season.

What do we do between now and until a vaccine or miracle cure comes? The 1918 Spanish Flu lasted something like three years.

The best psychological cure to have is to find a way to get sports back safely. It won't be perfect. We can only minimize risks of infection as much as possible. The whole country cannot afford a complete and total shut down. Life has to go on. But, it requires politicians to have the courage to listen to scientific experts to best navigate around this pandemic.

Companies are already doing a lot by going to virtual offices for those that don't need to be present at the worksites, isolating facilities into smaller work zones to limit interactions, etc...

 
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To add to the conversation that there are so many opinions on the virus that truthfully one could believe either one and have experts to defend that particular belief. I read about Italy seeing a dramatic decrease in cases a month or so back. I'm going to write to a friend who lives in northen Italy.

 

To add to the conversation that there are so many opinions on the virus that truthfully one could believe either one and have experts to defend that particular belief. I read about Italy seeing a dramatic decrease in cases a month or so back. I'm going to write to a friend who lives in northen Italy.


I heard that in the news recently. Is the same thing happening in Spain, France, England? What about China that reported an uptick recently? It is hard to know the truth from China and Russia being totalitarian states where they control the media and movement of people.

We need good news on the covid front in this country.
 

Regardless of whether or not there is a 2020 college football season (I'd say its 50/50) I'm comforted by all the infectious disease expertise on the GopherHole.
If you think about it, the Covid "expertise" in here is just as accurate and inaccurate as what we read outside of Gopher Hole. Strangely, when a guy like Veritas would chime in or Dr. Michael Osterholm would speak, my reaction was still the same...
Couple Gallery GIF - Find & Share on GIPHY
 
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Everyone comes at this from a different perspective, including scientists and physicians, because we are siloed in our thinking on an issue that is really multifaceted. Many physicians see the suffering in front of them, their own stress levels and are terrified of the prospect of rationing care if things get out of hand.. Business owners come at it from the perspective of losing their life’s work and livelihoods and concern for the general economy. Many others have vulnerable family members or are themselves at high risk. Politicians are balancing public health vs tax revenue as are the universities. Conflicted and sometimes wrong messages from public health organizations and particularly the epidemiology field have eroded trust beyond repair. Everyone wants this to go away.
 

Steering back to football - one thing to consider.

Given the number of positive tests among football players recently, IF there is a football season, teams are going to face some tough choices.

It will be difficult to keep 100+ players in a bubble. They will be going to class and interacting with other people outside of the team environment.

ergo, there is a chance - maybe a good chance - that some players will be testing positive during the season. and that could have a major impact on the outcome of games.

Imagine - two or three days before a big game and the QB or starting RB tests positive. Now they have to go into isolation and can't play.

all it would take is for a few star players to test positive at the wrong time, and conference races could be turned upside down. I'm not talking about just the Gophers, but all teams.

This year, more so than ever, the race may not be about the best team. It may be about who is available on a week-to-week basis due to injuries and now, due to covid.

And - will coaches try to keep it quiet to hide the news from other teams? Will depth charts be even more of a joke this year than they usually are?
 


Everyone comes at this from a different perspective, including scientists and physicians, because we are siloed in our thinking on an issue that is really multifaceted. Many physicians see the suffering in front of them, their own stress levels and are terrified of the prospect of rationing care if things get out of hand.. Business owners come at it from the perspective of losing their life’s work and livelihoods and concern for the general economy. Many others have vulnerable family members or are themselves at high risk. Politicians are balancing public health vs tax revenue as are the universities. Conflicted and sometimes wrong messages from public health organizations and particularly the epidemiology field have eroded trust beyond repair. Everyone wants this to go away.
Bolded: fake. That’s you projecting the reality you want to be true. The question is why. Who hurt you in the past? Who beat you out for that job/position? You have a major axe to grind, no doubt about it.
 

I don’t necessarily see why positive tests needs to automatically mean the cancellation of seasons and training. Isn’t it just evidence that the precautions and screenings are working? These players didn’t contract cv19 from a weight plate.
 


Bolded: fake. That’s you projecting the reality you want to be true. The question is why. Who hurt you in the past? Who beat you out for that job/position? You have a major axe to grind, no doubt about it.

The irony of you chasing me around in every thread. You don’t like being corrected, I get it.
 

It was never an accepted concept that if we shut everything down, and social distance, that this virus was going to disappear entirely right? I thought they expect over half of the U.S. population to get this shit at some point. I’m confused as to what the goal is anymore. If people feel like they’re at high risk of death if they get it, then they can stay locked inside as long as they want. Let those that want to resume life get back to it.
To keep the infection numbers and impact at a manageable level until reliable treatments are widely available to bridge the time needed for a vaccine.
 


Steering back to football - one thing to consider.

Given the number of positive tests among football players recently, IF there is a football season, teams are going to face some tough choices.

It will be difficult to keep 100+ players in a bubble. They will be going to class and interacting with other people outside of the team environment.

ergo, there is a chance - maybe a good chance - that some players will be testing positive during the season. and that could have a major impact on the outcome of games.

Imagine - two or three days before a big game and the QB or starting RB tests positive. Now they have to go into isolation and can't play.

all it would take is for a few star players to test positive at the wrong time, and conference races could be turned upside down. I'm not talking about just the Gophers, but all teams.

This year, more so than ever, the race may not be about the best team. It may be about who is available on a week-to-week basis due to injuries and now, due to covid.

And - will coaches try to keep it quiet to hide the news from other teams? Will depth charts be even more of a joke this year than they usually are?
I think a probable near future red flag tipping point is if/when players start getting sick as opposed to the asymptomatic cases so far. Hospitalizations would would potentially be a major red flag.
 

I think a probable near future red flag tipping point is if/when players start getting sick as opposed to the asymptomatic cases so far. Hospitalizations would would potentially be a major red flag.
This is true. If a player gets seriously sick, as opposed to just quarantined with no symptoms, that will probably be that. Hasn’t happened so far and I truly hope it never does.
 

The "loudest voice" that Chip is referring to is the money that football generates for the schools across the country. Not even politics is going to be able to get in front of that train. Football is coming, and there was never a doubt

Is football coming and there was never a doubt? I guess if you say there will at least be 1 game played somewhere, you may be able to say that.

There are certainly doubts as to how it will all play out, even the SEC Commissioner acknowledged that on the Dan Patrick Show today.
 

#1 died in an unsolved gardening accident. #2 choked on vomit of unknown origin. Love it!

Dozens of people spontaneously combust each year, it's just not widely reported.
 




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