Chip: Richard Pitino must address a Gophers liability: rotten shooting

[builtbadgers]

I guess I'm on the fence as long as you execute. We have won some seriously great games this year because of athleticism and defense and lost some seriously terrible games because we can't shoot.

Three of our loses we gave up more than 81 points.

 

[USAF]

I've mentioned two points before.

One: I think that Pitino chooses guys that are long and athletic for defensive purposes. I think his focus and his thought process is defense first. I clearly haven't heard him say this, but it seems like those are the type of guys he looks for. I think he'd rather have a guy that's super athletic and can defend on day 1 vs someone who is a good shooter and is getting schooled/fouling every possession.

Two: I think you're right that I don't think he's ignoring shooters, but to consistently land recruits that are both great shooters AND super athletic defenders is tough for any non blue blood. Every school wishes they had these guys not just us.

What a crock.

Pitino has no recruiting priorities, he settles for whoever he can get.

And his teams have NEVER bee noted for, or good at, defense.

 

[builtbadgers]

What a crock.

Pitino has no recruiting priorities, he settles for whoever he can get.

And his teams have NEVER bee noted for, or good at, defense.

I posted all of his teams defensive rankings by year. One year we were 5th in the conference and 22nd nationally. All other years between 9th and 12th in the conference and outside the top 75 average. Truly pathetic and doomed to a great deal of losing. All the metrics prove it.

 

[BarnBurner]

Badger is baaaaaaaaaaaack

 

[EG#9]

Another way to look at this. Minnesota's 4 Big Ten wins and the 3 point shooting for both teams

Iowa 10-30 Minnesota 17-43

Michigan State 6-25 Minnesota 6-25

Ohio State 7-27 Minnesota 9-22

Michigan 6-22 Minnesota 4-18

In their wins, only Iowa has shot adequately from 3 against the Gophers. The Iowa game was the Gophers best 3 point shooting game and the only one of the 4 where the shooting made a difference. They had 2 blowout wins while shooting terribly from behind the arc.

In Minnesota's 5 losses

Minnesota 7-28 Illinos 7-19

Minnesota 7-31 Wisconsin 6-15

Minnesota 7-28 Michigan 4-13

Minnesota 10-34 Iowa 9-14

Minnesota 5-23 Maryland 8-23

All 5 of these were blowout losses and the Gophers didn't shoot well in any of them from 3. In 2 of the 5 losses, the Gophers opponent shot well from 3, 2 they shot around average, and in one they were poor. However look at the attempts. In 3 of the 5 games the opponent shot less than 1/2 the number of 3's as the Gophers. I'd argue this points towards defense. These teams were obviously getting in to the paint often and not having to settle for jumpers. Look at the Michigan games: In the loss Michigan attempted 13 3's while in the win Michigan attempted 22. It holds true for the Iowa games as well: In the loss Iowa attempted 14 3's and in the win they attempted 30. The Gophers have had two blowout wins when shooting less than 25% from 3 ...and they've also been blown out shooting that percentage.

We'd like them to shoot better, but the ease in which our opponents are able to get in to (and score) the paint seems to have a lot more to do with W's and L's for this team than their own 3 point shooting percentage.

 

[McDobb4BB]

Another way to look at this. Minnesota's 4 Big Ten wins and the 3 point shooting for both teams

Iowa 10-30 Minnesota 17-43

Michigan State 6-25 Minnesota 6-25

Ohio State 7-27 Minnesota 9-22

Michigan 6-22 Minnesota 4-18

In their wins, only Iowa has shot adequately from 3 against the Gophers. The Iowa game was the Gophers best 3 point shooting game and the only one of the 4 where the shooting made a difference. They had 2 blowout wins while shooting terribly from behind the arc.

In Minnesota's 5 losses

Minnesota 7-28 Illinos 7-19

Minnesota 7-31 Wisconsin 6-15

Minnesota 7-28 Michigan 4-13

Minnesota 10-34 Iowa 9-14

Minnesota 5-23 Maryland 8-23

All 5 of these were blowout losses and the Gophers didn't shoot well in any of them from 3. In 2 of the 5 losses, the Gophers opponent shot well from 3, 2 they shot around average, and in one they were poor. However look at the attempts. In 3 of the 5 games the opponent shot less than 1/2 the number of 3's as the Gophers. I'd argue this points towards defense. These teams were obviously getting in to the paint often and not having to settle for jumpers. Look at the Michigan games: In the loss Michigan attempted 13 3's while in the win Michigan attempted 22. It holds true for the Iowa games as well: In the loss Iowa attempted 14 3's and in the win they attempted 30. The Gophers have had two blowout wins when shooting less than 25% from 3 ...and they've also been blown out shooting that percentage.

We'd like them to shoot better, but the ease in which our opponents are able to get in to (and score) the paint seems to have a lot more to do with W's and L's for this team than their own 3 point shooting percentage.

Thank you for doing this research ... this is a great example of how analytics tell a different story than what our eyes or emotions paint for us.

 

[Bordergopher]

Another way to look at this. Minnesota's 4 Big Ten wins and the 3 point shooting for both teams

Iowa 10-30 Minnesota 17-43

Michigan State 6-25 Minnesota 6-25

Ohio State 7-27 Minnesota 9-22

Michigan 6-22 Minnesota 4-18

In their wins, only Iowa has shot adequately from 3 against the Gophers. The Iowa game was the Gophers best 3 point shooting game and the only one of the 4 where the shooting made a difference. They had 2 blowout wins while shooting terribly from behind the arc.

In Minnesota's 5 losses

Minnesota 7-28 Illinos 7-19

Minnesota 7-31 Wisconsin 6-15

Minnesota 7-28 Michigan 4-13

Minnesota 10-34 Iowa 9-14

Minnesota 5-23 Maryland 8-23

All 5 of these were blowout losses and the Gophers didn't shoot well in any of them from 3. In 2 of the 5 losses, the Gophers opponent shot well from 3, 2 they shot around average, and in one they were poor. However look at the attempts. In 3 of the 5 games the opponent shot less than 1/2 the number of 3's as the Gophers. I'd argue this points towards defense. These teams were obviously getting in to the paint often and not having to settle for jumpers. Look at the Michigan games: In the loss Michigan attempted 13 3's while in the win Michigan attempted 22. It holds true for the Iowa games as well: In the loss Iowa attempted 14 3's and in the win they attempted 30. The Gophers have had two blowout wins when shooting less than 25% from 3 ...and they've also been blown out shooting that percentage.

We'd like them to shoot better, but the ease in which our opponents are able to get in to (and score) the paint seems to have a lot more to do with W's and L's for this team than their own 3 point shooting percentage.

I agree with this from a defensive perspective. However, from an offensive perspective, Maryland knew we are a terrible jump-shooting team. Their defense was designed to keep us out of the paint and dare us to shoot threes. Many of those three-point attempts were open looks and we couldn’t hit them.

I would argue it is BECAUSE of our poor shooting ability that we can’t get as many good looks inside, and thus end up taking more three-point attempts. Often, that’s all that is available, except Carr’s valiant efforts to go one-on five into the lane. Of course, Liam has had some great games, and we will need him to have more great games for us to finish out the season well. It seems now that Carr and Robbins have to score a lot of points for us to win games.

From a recruiting perspective, the two misses that really hurt the most are Walton and Garcia. I think we had legitimate shots at landing both. They are both having good seasons and appear to be very good shooters. Just what this team needs. Can you imagine this lineup right now? PG-Carr, SG Walton, SF Gach or Gabe, PF Garcia, C-Robbins. Three good outside shooters. I think that lineup wins the Big 10.

 

[tmvander]

Always some, not a lot as most of those programs have not been mediocre nearly every year.

There are over 350 D1 college teams and I would say roughly 20 or less that are title contenders every single season. Give me something here Built! Other people are hate life when their teams lose right?

 

[tmvander]

What a crock.

Pitino has no recruiting priorities, he settles for whoever he can get.

And his teams have NEVER bee noted for, or good at, defense.

I mean maybe you're right...maybe he's just chucking offers against a wall and seeing what sticks. It's too difficult to tell with this team though. Too many highs and too many lows.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Don't know how you could research or quantify this, but:

the new conventional wisdom in basketball is that you don't want to shoot mid-range jumpers.

the supposed ideal is to either shoot layups/close-in shots or 3-point attempts.

My gut tells me that this has resulted in some players essentially being forced out beyond their most comfortable shooting range. They think they are supposed to shoot 3's, so they shoot 3's - whether they're suited for it or not.

As far as I'm concerned, I would tell convention wisdom to shove it.

If I have a player who is a good shooter from the 12-15 foot range, then go ahead and shoot. I would rather have a guy taking his natural shot as opposed to forcing shots from further out.

a made 2-point basket is worth 2 points.

a missed 3-point shot is worth 0 points.

2 is better than 0.

built - are there any analytics on this?

 

[GoodasGold]

If I’m not mistaken, a set shot is worth just as much as a jump shot from the same range. My observation has been that the lady Gophers have better percentages set-shooting than do Gopher men jump-shooting. Perhaps coach Pitino could coax coach Whalen to provide tutorials on the finer points of high-percentage set shots for some of the more challenged men. ~ Just thinking outside the box again.

 

[Some guy]

I’ll say again, we are running an NBA offense with middle of the big ten talent.
When people are hot it works, when they aren’t, it doesnt

since we have middle of the big ten talent instead of nba talent, we are going to be inconsistent

 

[Some guy]

If I’m not mistaken, a set shot is worth just as much as a jump shot from the same range. My observation has been that the lady Gophers have better percentages set-shooting than do Gopher men jump-shooting. Perhaps coach Pitino could coax coach Whalen to provide tutorials on the finer points of high-percentage set shots for some of the more challenged men. ~ Just thinking outside the box again.

Yeah but shooting over big ten men’s teams is a little different animal than shooting over women’s teams

 

[GoodasGold]

Yeah but shooting over big ten men’s teams is a little different animal than shooting over women’s teams

Good point. I was also thinking about the possibility of coach Pitino promoting and instilling the skill of underhanded free throws ala Rick (never miss) Berry. Although inevitably prone to some degree of ridicule, it would be sweet to sit atop the conference in FT %.

 

[Some guy]

Good point. I was also thinking about the possibility of coach Pitino promoting and instilling the skill of underhanded free throws ala Rick (never miss) Berry. Although inevitably prone to some degree of ridicule, it would be sweet to sit atop the conference in FT %.

Minnesota is currently 44th in free throw percentage

Minnesota is currently 1.5% away from being first in the big ten.

Minnesota is currently number one in the nation in made free throws.
Minnesota has currently made 26 more free throws than Ohio State who has the second most free throw makes in the conference. 85 more than wisconsin who has the third most makes.

 

[builtbadgers]

Badger is baaaaaaaaaaaack

Was not gone. Just using facts.

There are over 350 D1 college teams and I would say roughly 20 or less that are title contenders every single season. Give me something here Built! Other people are hate life when their teams lose right?

No doubt about it, even fans of great teams. I was just not made that way.More interested in programs, how they are built, who the coaches are that reached elite from mediocre, how they did it. Losses can bug me for about 5 minutes. Many fans ride really high and really low, Fire coach when they lose, build a statue after a win.

 

[GoodasGold]

Minnesota is currently 44th in free throw percentage

Minnesota is currently 1.5% away from being first in the big ten.

Minnesota is currently number one in the nation in made free throws.
Minnesota has currently made 26 more free throws than Ohio State who has the second most free throw makes in the conference. 85 more than wisconsin who has the third most makes.

I know. It’s wonderful! Think how much more fun it would be if the team never missed?

 

[builtbadgers]

Don't know how you could research or quantify this, but:

the new conventional wisdom in basketball is that you don't want to shoot mid-range jumpers.

the supposed ideal is to either shoot layups/close-in shots or 3-point attempts.

My gut tells me that this has resulted in some players essentially being forced out beyond their most comfortable shooting range. They think they are supposed to shoot 3's, so they shoot 3's - whether they're suited for it or not.

As far as I'm concerned, I would tell convention wisdom to shove it.

If I have a player who is a good shooter from the 12-15 foot range, then go ahead and shoot. I would rather have a guy taking his natural shot as opposed to forcing shots from further out.

a made 2-point basket is worth 2 points.

a missed 3-point shot is worth 0 points.

2 is better than 0.

built - are there any analytics on this?

More than you want but it is best looked at as to who takes the threes, who takes the twos. Watched a team break the Syracuse zone by flashing a 5'8 kid to the free throw line to find shooters for threes and forcing Cuse to adjust they had several great two's from 8-12 feet and 8 dunks.You only need 34% from three to surpass 50 % on two's but two's can set up higher quality 3's. Of course, your guys still need to make them.

 

[LesBolstad]

If I’m not mistaken, a set shot is worth just as much as a jump shot from the same range. My observation has been that the lady Gophers have better percentages set-shooting than do Gopher men jump-shooting. Perhaps coach Pitino could coax coach Whalen to provide tutorials on the finer points of high-percentage set shots for some of the more challenged men. ~ Just thinking outside the box again.

"Never let a black man shoot a set shot" -
this was a defensive tip by an asst. coach (black guy) I had in college. Sound advice.

 

[BarnBurner]

Was not gone. Just using facts.

No doubt about it, even fans of great teams. I was just not made that way.More interested in programs, how they are built, who the coaches are that reached elite from mediocre, how they did it. Losses can bug me for about 5 minutes. Many fans ride really high and really low, Fire coach when they lose, build a statue after a win.

Very few do this.

 

[GoodasGold]

"Never let a black man shoot a set shot" -
this was a defensive tip by an asst. coach (black guy) I had in college. Sound advice.

If you don’t mind my asking, what kind of shots were you making?

 

[jovs]

Yeah but shooting over big ten men’s teams is a little different animal than shooting over women’s teams

The athleticism of Big Ten defenses is very important, Greenlee is hitting close to 50% of his three's at Florida Atlantic while taking his fair share of them, Harris is hitting close to 50% of his threes and scoring a ton of points. I would guess Mutaf will be the same down the line.

It's about getting the shooters that can compete athletically in the Big Ten.