That is because teams like Wisconsin recruit program players. Guys that don't really run or jump, but they are patient and can shoot the rock. I still think this is the blueprint to win here and in the Big Ten consistently, but Richard seems to think we can just run and shoot a ton of 3 point baskets with guys that hit about 20% of them and win.
Chip: Richard Pitino must address a Gophers liability: rotten shooting
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That is because teams like Wisconsin recruit program players. Guys that don't really run or jump, but they are patient and can shoot the rock. I still think this is the blueprint to win here and in the Big Ten consistently, but Richard seems to think we can just run and shoot a ton of 3 point baskets with guys that hit about 20% of them and win.
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Jamir Harris (transferred to American U) was 9 for 15 from 3 last night-triple overtime and he needed 53 minutes of PT to do it, but he had enough energy left to make the game winner from about 28ft.
I liked his overall game when he was here- undersized but could shoot and worked hard. Not the greatest way to judge a player, but I got to go observe a couple of practices that year and he was one of those kids that didn't cheat a drill. If you were supposed to go all the way to the line, he went to the line. Little things add up to big things over time
I liked his overall game when he was here- undersized but could shoot and worked hard. Not the greatest way to judge a player, but I got to go observe a couple of practices that year and he was one of those kids that didn't cheat a drill. If you were supposed to go all the way to the line, he went to the line. Little things add up to big things over time
GophersInIowa
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On Saturday it sure seemed like it. I really just meant that they’re both problems. When they take a lot of bad shots, they’re not going to make a whole lot.
I am on record as not a fan of our high school recruiting in general. Have a hard time, though, believing Coach Pitino doesnt value shooting.
Ryan James wrote an article on the 3 point shooting for 247 (free content).
Some notes:
The Gophers are last in the B1G at 29.5% from 3, Nebraska is the only other team making less that 1/3 of their 3's (they are at 32%).
The Gophers are second in the league in 3 point attempts per game at 25.4, trailing only Iowa who takes 26 a game. However Iowa's 25.4 a game accounts for 40.1% of their shots compared to the Gophers taking 41.7% of their shots from 3. Nebraska (fewer games) actually attempts more (27) than both teams and that accounts for 44% of the Huskers shot attempts.
Only Liam Robbins (40%) and Marcus Carr (35.3%) are hitting about 1/3 of their 3's. I you go down to 30%, you only add Both Gach.
Their are some historical stats in the article as well, but Ryan doesn't draw any conclusions or offer solutions/criticisms.
My thoughts:
The high screen that is such a huge part of the offense requires spacing to work. When Carr isn't open and the roll (or pop) isn't open with Robbins (or other screener) the other 3 guys are likely outside the 3 point line. That's the most likely shot that's going to happen. Aside from Both Gach in the non-conference schedule, nobody other than Carr has shown they can create a shot for themeslves or others off the bounce. When the initial action gets stopped, how do they get a shot, especially if the ball is out of Carr's hands? They end up taking a lot of tough 3's in half court situations when they simply can't get anything else and have to chuck up a shot. I'd be interested in the number of dunks/layups the Gophers get in the half court compared to other teams in the conference. I would assume they are near the bottom of the league in that stat as well. It's my feeling that a Coffey type secondary ball handler/creator is of equal importance to better shooters for this offense to be really good. The best this offense ever looked was with Mason/Coffey and you could throw in Dupree who played the best ball of his career in that Sophomore season which was the only year Pitino has had a winning B1G record.
Another huge issue with the shooting is the construction of this roster. Going in to the season we had a total of 6 players for the PG/SG/SF (or lead guard and wings) and 7 players for the PF and C positions. Going small is a thing in basketball, but going big is not. At the very least, there should have been one more guard/wing option on the roster and I think most coaches would say two. Now with Mutaf and Omersa transferring the numbers are 5 players for the guards/wings and 6 players for the bigs. If there were one or two more guards/wings on this roster, that would be 1 or 2 more guys who either might be good shooters or shoot it well on a given night. The lack of options force Gabe/Both/Jamal to play when they are really struggling and you cannot just not shoot when you're out there.
Some notes:
The Gophers are last in the B1G at 29.5% from 3, Nebraska is the only other team making less that 1/3 of their 3's (they are at 32%).
The Gophers are second in the league in 3 point attempts per game at 25.4, trailing only Iowa who takes 26 a game. However Iowa's 25.4 a game accounts for 40.1% of their shots compared to the Gophers taking 41.7% of their shots from 3. Nebraska (fewer games) actually attempts more (27) than both teams and that accounts for 44% of the Huskers shot attempts.
Only Liam Robbins (40%) and Marcus Carr (35.3%) are hitting about 1/3 of their 3's. I you go down to 30%, you only add Both Gach.
Their are some historical stats in the article as well, but Ryan doesn't draw any conclusions or offer solutions/criticisms.
My thoughts:
The high screen that is such a huge part of the offense requires spacing to work. When Carr isn't open and the roll (or pop) isn't open with Robbins (or other screener) the other 3 guys are likely outside the 3 point line. That's the most likely shot that's going to happen. Aside from Both Gach in the non-conference schedule, nobody other than Carr has shown they can create a shot for themeslves or others off the bounce. When the initial action gets stopped, how do they get a shot, especially if the ball is out of Carr's hands? They end up taking a lot of tough 3's in half court situations when they simply can't get anything else and have to chuck up a shot. I'd be interested in the number of dunks/layups the Gophers get in the half court compared to other teams in the conference. I would assume they are near the bottom of the league in that stat as well. It's my feeling that a Coffey type secondary ball handler/creator is of equal importance to better shooters for this offense to be really good. The best this offense ever looked was with Mason/Coffey and you could throw in Dupree who played the best ball of his career in that Sophomore season which was the only year Pitino has had a winning B1G record.
Another huge issue with the shooting is the construction of this roster. Going in to the season we had a total of 6 players for the PG/SG/SF (or lead guard and wings) and 7 players for the PF and C positions. Going small is a thing in basketball, but going big is not. At the very least, there should have been one more guard/wing option on the roster and I think most coaches would say two. Now with Mutaf and Omersa transferring the numbers are 5 players for the guards/wings and 6 players for the bigs. If there were one or two more guards/wings on this roster, that would be 1 or 2 more guys who either might be good shooters or shoot it well on a given night. The lack of options force Gabe/Both/Jamal to play when they are really struggling and you cannot just not shoot when you're out there.
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If Gabe shoots at 33%, the team wins more games, the 3% increases and isn't as pathetic, and this discussion is much less important. And, imo, the majority of the shots Gabe misses - badly - are good shots.
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This will probably be the most bi polar season we're going to have as fans which is saying a lot based off the teams we like. All of our losses are blowouts yet we have blown out Ohio St, Michigan, Michigan St and beaten Iowa and St. Louis. We've also barely beaten Boston College, LMU, and lost a stinker to a sub par Maryland team at home.
At the end of the day we're ranked 21 and have a great resume. I'd say things are working out better than I would have expected 2 months ago so I'm going to shut up for a bit on ripping the team and coaches.
At the end of the day we're ranked 21 and have a great resume. I'd say things are working out better than I would have expected 2 months ago so I'm going to shut up for a bit on ripping the team and coaches.
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He's not a very quick player in movement or decision making on the offensive end for sure.
I think this is a great example of a player thinking too much ... if even for a split second he's thinking "is this a good shot and coach is telling us to shoot less" it's going to be bad ... he didn't have a problem with this shot as a freshman
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He's so good on defense. Quick and smart. The total opposite on offense. He is such a negative on that side of the floor. The mental aspect has to be part of it.
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Yes, the hesitation or indecisiveness is a problem. When he drives then someone has to pick him up, but then someone has to cut or he has to shoot a floater, he can't finish at the rim. Maryland used the back screens and back cuts all day when the Gophers over committed on defense.
A forced drive / shot at the rim is no better than a forced 3 pointer ... it's likely to end with a miss. We've seen that many times even from Carr and he's one fo the best at the country when going to the rim. He misses those forced shots as well.
Back cuts and back screens are an example of being well scouted ... Maryland played 5 men out which pulled Liam out of the lane. When that happens, you can't over commit by trying to deny passes to the wing. That's how we've been playing defense most of the year and why Gabe has been able to defend guys like Wagner from Michigan. Gabe either denied the pass they tried to get o. Wagner or if Wagner got the ball he was pushed out of position to be an effective scoring threat.
Purdue will follow that game plan, they generally apply pressure to the ball anyway so it won't be changing their style of play. It will be interesting to see how Minnesota changes things up to overcome that.
Then why haven't we had anyone that can shoot here? Nate Mason was alright I guess.
Off the top of my head Mason, Springs, Oturu, Carr, Robbins. Gabe was certainly a shooter when recruited and during his freshman season. Mcbrayer was ok. For sure we need to get players who shoot better. Bridge too far for me to think pitino isnt prioritizing shooting, just hasnt been as successful at it as he would no doubt like.
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I've mentioned two points before.
One: I think that Pitino chooses guys that are long and athletic for defensive purposes. I think his focus and his thought process is defense first. I clearly haven't heard him say this, but it seems like those are the type of guys he looks for. I think he'd rather have a guy that's super athletic and can defend on day 1 vs someone who is a good shooter and is getting schooled/fouling every possession.
Two: I think you're right that I don't think he's ignoring shooters, but to consistently land recruits that are both great shooters AND super athletic defenders is tough for any non blue blood. Every school wishes they had these guys not just us.
Exactly. It's interesting that after a badger loss there will be posters on their site complaining about inability to recruit athletic players
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It's probably every message board and fan base. Last week I think there were 8 ranked teams BEFORE our game that lost. I didn't pay attention to the rest of the Saturday games or Sunday due to my anger having not worn off. Some of those losses were ugly ones.
Probably A LOT of "fire the coach" "our guys suck" "nobody can shoot" "recruit better players" talk out there.
Yeah, i am the same way. Dont tend to watch much college bb after a gopher loss. Much more interested after a win.
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Yep, now that the the sour mood from Saturday has worn off I'll be paying attention most of the week. There's always a lot of scoreboard watching to be doing when the Gophers are ranked and in the hunt for NCAA seeding.
WhoFellDownTheGopherHole?
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I guess count me as a person who thinks you can coach up defense or make up for a lack of 'skill' there with desire, a lot easier than you can teach someone to hit a high percentage of their shots.
Defense first is great, but recruit people who can shoot, and challenge them to work hard to become great through their defensive intensity.
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Not sure the people who are bragging up Gabe’s defense must have missed the 4 back cuts that Maryland scored on AGAINST Gabe. Please, maybe his defense is better than other Gophers, is that really saying much?
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I guess I'm on the fence as long as you execute. We have won some seriously great games this year because of athleticism and defense and lost some seriously terrible games because we can't shoot.
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builtbadgers
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Why is it that we are ranked 9th or worse on defense in the conference every year but one then ? He told us before the year that he had good shooters all through the perimeter.
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There are posters on here that post that Gach is a good shooter !
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Always some, not a lot as most of those programs have not been mediocre nearly every year.
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There are programs who do both.