Chip: I said it last year and will say it again: Gophers basketball is in really good hands with Ben Johnson.

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Otis said:
Pretty nice team Johnson is building here despite only inheriting Isiah when he was hired.

Possible lineup next year:

Carrington/Christie
Christie/ Evan’s BFF/Ihnen(lol)
Battle/Ihnen/Betts
Garcia/Payne/Fox
Evans/Thompson

Ben should be bLushing at the depth of talent he has collected since being hired.

And he will still have the portal!
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Also having that much depth and talent is a great way to improve as you’re not facing 🍅 cans in practice🥳
 

Indiana Gopher said:
I have to push back on that assertion. I think Coach Johnson did a great job of coaching last year. He inherited a flawed team, lost almost all of those players via the Transfer Portal, constructed a roster of transfers from George Washington, College of Charleston, William & Mary, New Hampshire, Lafayette, Stephen F. Austin, Merrimack, etc... and won 14 games! I was and am super proud of what the team accomplished last year! This year I expect more...and next year more than that...but to say Coach Johnson can't coach is just not accurate or fair
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also showed they have sets/plans for O and D and allows for hope and optimism once we plug in higher end talent.
 

ecoperson said:
Please share the names and schools of the recruits at Evans level that other B1G teams have committed for the Class of 23- Johnson's first full recruiting year.

You are correct that most of the losses were by double digits. Only 4 were by 15 or more, however. Last year's team held up surprisingly well with the rent-a-year personnel in place.

Here are all of the losses from last season. And- for good measure- the losses by Pitino's squads by 15 or more over his last 4 seasons.

1- Home to Wisconsin
2- Away to Michigan St
5- Home to Indiana
6- Away to Wisconsin
8- Home to Michigan St
9- B1G Tournament to Penn St
10- Home to Iowa
11- Home to Ohio St
11- Away to Maryland
12- Away to Iowa
13- Away to Northwestern
13- Away to Nebraska
13- Away to Indiana
15- Home to Purdue
21- Away to Penn St
23- Home to Illinois
25- Away to Ohio St

Pitino's Teams
The '20-'21 team that had numerous top ten wins also lost by 31, 27, 25, 19, 19, 15, 14
The '19-'20 squad lost by 20, 18, 16
The '18-'19 team lost 27, 24, 20, 15 in conference, 27 in Big 10 Tournament, and 20 in NCAA
The '17-'18 squad lost 34, 30, 24, 24, 23, 18, 16, 14
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So we're not counting last year's recruiting class now as a full Ben class? Interesting.

So far this year Michigan St has 2, Rutgers has 1, and Ohio St has 1 player all ranked in the top 40 according to 247. Evans is at 31. And since some like to compare us to Iowa St, they also have 2.

For the '22 class Indiana had 2, Illinois 1, and Michigan 1 ranked in the top 40. So for the 22 and 23 recruiting classes 6 other B1G teams have pulled in Evans level recruits, so far.
 

Dakota2 said:
You seemed to suggest a certain percentage of the roster should be Minnesota kids. I don't think that matters other than the fact we will have some advantage attracting in-state kids as the program becomes successful.
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simply because

1. There is talent here
2. Recruiting at home should be easier, less travel, able to build more relationships. Getting players wanting to stay home

I don't care if we have 0% or 100% MN kids to be honest, but it SHOULD be easier to get kids to stay home than to relocate halfway across the country, big picture he needs to do both, I just think he'll do more of the first.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
So we're not counting last year's recruiting class now as a full Ben class? Interesting.

So far this year Michigan St has 2, Rutgers has 1, and Ohio St has 1 player all ranked in the top 40 according to 247. Evans is at 31. And since some like to compare us to Iowa St, they also have 2.

For the '22 class Indiana had 2, Illinois 1, and Michigan 1 ranked in the top 40. So for the 22 and 23 recruiting classes 6 other B1G teams have pulled in Evans level recruits, so far.
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I don't think anyone expects MN to have the top recruiting class in the B1G. I do think that it's fair to expect that the Gophers are at least competitive with other teams. and that is what Evans represents - at least I hope that's what he represents.

Yes, other teams have good recruits, too. the Evans commit is a signal (we hope) that MN is able to bring in a comparable level of talent.

The Gophers do not have to have the #1 recruiting class in the conference. They do need to be in the upper half on a consistent basis. as of right now, it looks like Johnson has brought in two solid classes in a row. That's progress.
 


topos said:
Lol what? Coaching was literally the biggest strength last year. Stayed in mostly every big ten game even with a massive talent gap and no depth beyond the 6th man. Any reasonable fan thought, “What would this team be able to do with talent and depth?”
Now we are getting a lot of that talent.
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Sorry, but it's really, REALLY tough to say the coaching was the biggest strength last year. Good/great coaching, to me, would indicate some serious progress and improvement over the course of the season. Can we really say that team was notably better in early March than they were in December? That would be a monumental stretch, to say the least.

Reason for optimism, most definitely, and I'm looking forward to this season more than any in recent memory, but there's a boatload of revisionist history going on to say there was some serious John Wooden coaching going on last year.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
So we're not counting last year's recruiting class now as a full Ben class? Interesting.

So far this year Michigan St has 2, Rutgers has 1, and Ohio St has 1 player all ranked in the top 40 according to 247. Evans is at 31. And since some like to compare us to Iowa St, they also have 2.

For the '22 class Indiana had 2, Illinois 1, and Michigan 1 ranked in the top 40. So for the 22 and 23 recruiting classes 6 other B1G teams have pulled in Evans level recruits, so far.
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I do not think it fair to critique Johnson on his recruiting skills based on the first class. The players from MN in that class that we missed on had been built relationships with their future coaches for years: Izzo (Holloman), Painter (Heide), and Otzelberger (King).

Despite walking in the door in March 2021, Johnson got all of those players in on unofficial visits. Johnson made up a lot of ground in a short time and these recruits were at least considering the offer to stay home. Johnson also brought in Ziegler, Pierre, and others on officials. Not bad for a late entrant.

So for this year- MN is tied for 2nd in recruits in the top 40 with 2 other teams. Is that not worthy of your support?

If you insist on including the '22 class, you must acknowledge that a first time head coach (now in his second season) is tied with a few other teams at 3rd for recruits in the top 40 during that span.

Being in the top 1/2 of the B1G in attracting a top 40 recruit as a new head coach is impressive.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Sorry, but it's really, REALLY tough to say the coaching was the biggest strength last year. Good/great coaching, to me, would indicate some serious progress and improvement over the course of the season. Can we really say that team was notably better in early March than they were in December? That would be a monumental stretch, to say the least.

Reason for optimism, most definitely, and I'm looking forward to this season more than any in recent memory, but there's a boatload of revisionist history going on to say there was some serious John Wooden coaching going on last year.
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There is little opportunity for development and improvement with a bunch of players playing their last season of college basketball. These young men are mostly finished products.

The limited available players during the B1G season make it extremely hard to show, or even measure, progress. That this team was competitive under these circumstances is most likely attributed to leadership and coaching ability.

It would have been really easy for the team to quit when they had lost so many games and saw teammates go out due to injury or COVID protocols.. they didn't. This team fought to the end. Good leaders can do that for you.
 

ecoperson said:
I do not think it fair to critique Johnson on his recruiting skills based on the first class. The players from MN in that class that we missed on had been built relationships with their future coaches for years: Izzo (Holloman), Painter (Heide), and Otzelberger (King).

Despite walking in the door in March 2021, Johnson got all of those players in on unofficial visits. Johnson made up a lot of ground in a short time and these recruits were at least considering the offer to stay home. Johnson also brought in Ziegler, Pierre, and others on officials. Not bad for a late entrant.

So for this year- MN is tied for 2nd in recruits in the top 40 with 2 other teams. Is that not worthy of your support?

If you insist on including the '22 class, you must acknowledge that a first time head coach (now in his second season) is tied with a few other teams at 3rd for recruits in the top 40 during that span.

Being in the top 1/2 of the B1G in attracting a top 40 recruit as a new head coach is impressive.
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So he gets credit for the MN players he did recruit last class, but the ones he missed don't count because a year wasn't enough time to build relationships? He couldn't build relationships and couldn't recruit them to Xavier as well? That doesn't make any sense. Not counting last year's class would be the same as saying PJ's class of Bateman, Faalele, Dunlap, Spann Ford, Sori Marin, etc didn't count. No one is saying that because it's ridiculous.

And where did I say it wasn't worthy of my support? I am happy to see some progress on the recruiting front and Evans is a great get. I'm excited about Christie as well, but he is the typical B1G guard that most teams recruit.

Last year's recruiting class was ranked 9th in the B1G, bolstered by a high number of recruits, it was 12th in average recruit ranking. Even with Evans this year we are currently ranked 7th in both overall rating and average recruit ranking. These are very comparable to where Pitino had us most years.

So like I said, all B1G teams recruit at a high level, and Ben has a long ways to go both on and off the court to prove the program is 'in good hands'. Getting Evans is very positive, but it takes a lot more to win in this conference than getting one big time recruit.
 



ecoperson said:
Please share the names and schools of the recruits at Evans level that other B1G teams have committed for the Class of 23- Johnson's first full recruiting year.

You are correct that most of the losses were by double digits. Only 4 were by 15 or more, however. Last year's team held up surprisingly well with the rent-a-year personnel in place.

Here are all of the losses from last season. And- for good measure- the losses by Pitino's squads by 15 or more over his last 4 seasons.

1- Home to Wisconsin
2- Away to Michigan St
5- Home to Indiana
6- Away to Wisconsin
8- Home to Michigan St
9- B1G Tournament to Penn St
10- Home to Iowa
11- Home to Ohio St
11- Away to Maryland
12- Away to Iowa
13- Away to Northwestern
13- Away to Nebraska
13- Away to Indiana
15- Home to Purdue
21- Away to Penn St
23- Home to Illinois
25- Away to Ohio St

Pitino's Teams
The '20-'21 team that had numerous top ten wins also lost by 31, 27, 25, 19, 19, 15, 14
The '19-'20 squad lost by 20, 18, 16
The '18-'19 team lost 27, 24, 20, 15 in conference, 27 in Big 10 Tournament, and 20 in NCAA
The '17-'18 squad lost 34, 30, 24, 24, 23, 18, 16, 14
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And just for fun, what was the score and circumstances of Loss No. 2 on your list, at Michigan St?
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
So he gets credit for the MN players he did recruit last class, but the ones he missed don't count because a year wasn't enough time to build relationships? He couldn't build relationships and couldn't recruit them to Xavier as well? That doesn't make any sense. Not counting last year's class would be the same as saying PJ's class of Bateman, Faalele, Dunlap, Spann Ford, Sori Marin, etc didn't count. No one is saying that because it's ridiculous.

And where did I say it wasn't worthy of my support? I am happy to see some progress on the recruiting front and Evans is a great get. I'm excited about Christie as well, but he is the typical B1G guard that most teams recruit.

Last year's recruiting class was ranked 9th in the B1G, bolstered by a high number of recruits, it was 12th in average recruit ranking. Even with Evans this year we are currently ranked 7th in both overall rating and average recruit ranking. These are very comparable to where Pitino had us most years.

So like I said, all B1G teams recruit at a high level, and Ben has a long ways to go both on and off the court to prove the program is 'in good hands'. Getting Evans is very positive, but it takes a lot more to win in this conference than getting one big time recruit.
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Players you don't recruit mean nothing. The players on the floor wearing your jerseys are all that matter.
 


MennoSota said:
Good point. Yes, this is why I point toward Clem. The process to get to 1997 was long, not instant. As long as Ben doesn't cheat, I see a future where the Gophers are a team to take very very seriously.
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The Final Four took a while, but the Sweet 16 took three years and the Elite 8 four. And those banners still hang.
 



Hates Monikers said:
The Final Four took a while, but the Sweet 16 took three years and the Elite 8 four. And those banners still hang.
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Indeed. This is truly Ben Johnson's first recruiting class. Let us see what happens in 24-25. I think a Sweet 16 might be attainable.
 

Otis said:
Pretty nice team Johnson is building here despite only inheriting Isiah when he was hired.

Possible lineup next year:

Carrington/Christie
Christie/ Evan’s BFF/Ihnen(lol)
Battle/Ihnen/Betts
Garcia/Payne/Fox
Evans/Thompson

Ben should be bLushing at the depth of talent he has collected since being hired.

And he will still have the portal!
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You forgot Cooper
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
So he gets credit for the MN players he did recruit last class, but the ones he missed don't count because a year wasn't enough time to build relationships? He couldn't build relationships and couldn't recruit them to Xavier as well? That doesn't make any sense. Not counting last year's class would be the same as saying PJ's class of Bateman, Faalele, Dunlap, Spann Ford, Sori Marin, etc didn't count. No one is saying that because it's ridiculous.

And where did I say it wasn't worthy of my support? I am happy to see some progress on the recruiting front and Evans is a great get. I'm excited about Christie as well, but he is the typical B1G guard that most teams recruit.

Last year's recruiting class was ranked 9th in the B1G, bolstered by a high number of recruits, it was 12th in average recruit ranking. Even with Evans this year we are currently ranked 7th in both overall rating and average recruit ranking. These are very comparable to where Pitino had us most years.

So like I said, all B1G teams recruit at a high level, and Ben has a long ways to go both on and off the court to prove the program is 'in good hands'. Getting Evans is very positive, but it takes a lot more to win in this conference than getting one big time recruit.
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Toot toot…. Ban train a comin’
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
So he gets credit for the MN players he did recruit last class, but the ones he missed don't count because a year wasn't enough time to build relationships? He couldn't build relationships and couldn't recruit them to Xavier as well? That doesn't make any sense. Not counting last year's class would be the same as saying PJ's class of Bateman, Faalele, Dunlap, Spann Ford, Sori Marin, etc didn't count. No one is saying that because it's ridiculous.

And where did I say it wasn't worthy of my support? I am happy to see some progress on the recruiting front and Evans is a great get. I'm excited about Christie as well, but he is the typical B1G guard that most teams recruit.

Last year's recruiting class was ranked 9th in the B1G, bolstered by a high number of recruits, it was 12th in average recruit ranking. Even with Evans this year we are currently ranked 7th in both overall rating and average recruit ranking. These are very comparable to where Pitino had us most years.

So like I said, all B1G teams recruit at a high level, and Ben has a long ways to go both on and off the court to prove the program is 'in good hands'. Getting Evans is very positive, but it takes a lot more to win in this conference than getting one big time recruit.
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I’m all for counting ‘22 as his first class, the reason Ben took all those transfers was so he could catch up in ‘22. I also don’t understand why we wouldn’t count it as a positive. ‘22 was one of the deepest we’ve ever had in the state. As a former coach I know many other coaches who’ve watched and would agree. I find it hard to find anyone who felt Payne wasn’t the better player than Holloman last year. No knock on Holloman, more indicative on how good Payne is. JOJ would’ve been a lot more well liked had he stayed at Osseo. That’s on him and his ranking proves it. Carrington also was so good last year. He won’t be a star but he’s a very good guard and will be very comparable to Kalchaeur on ability. Gabe was a starting 2 guard on two NCAA teams. I don’t know enough about Henley and Betts since I haven’t seen them live so I won’t comment for arguments sake. I know folks who’ve seen them both and think they can play too. The two I’ve talked to think Betts is easily better than Winter, but that’s just their opinion.
I think that’s a nice first class and something we should count as a positive for Ben personally. Truthfully the judgement will come in 3-4 years when we see what we get out of them.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
So he gets credit for the MN players he did recruit last class, but the ones he missed don't count because a year wasn't enough time to build relationships? He couldn't build relationships and couldn't recruit them to Xavier as well? That doesn't make any sense. Not counting last year's class would be the same as saying PJ's class of Bateman, Faalele, Dunlap, Spann Ford, Sori Marin, etc didn't count. No one is saying that because it's ridiculous.

And where did I say it wasn't worthy of my support? I am happy to see some progress on the recruiting front and Evans is a great get. I'm excited about Christie as well, but he is the typical B1G guard that most teams recruit.

Last year's recruiting class was ranked 9th in the B1G, bolstered by a high number of recruits, it was 12th in average recruit ranking. Even with Evans this year we are currently ranked 7th in both overall rating and average recruit ranking. These are very comparable to where Pitino had us most years.

So like I said, all B1G teams recruit at a high level, and Ben has a long ways to go both on and off the court to prove the program is 'in good hands'. Getting Evans is very positive, but it takes a lot more to win in this conference than getting one big time recruit.
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I used the MN kids as an EXAMPLE of doing well in the limited time that he had. Was Johnson the lead recruiter for any of them? I don't follow Xavier recruiting.

Fleck is not a fair comparison in any way, shape, or form. He was the hottest name in coaching. There are few high school players nationally who hadn't seen the work he had done at Western Michigan. That Johnson got some high end MN kids to consider the team so late in the recruiting cycle could be seen as a positive. Or, like many on this board, they will only see that these kids committed elsewhere and write it off as another negative.

I have seen Christie mentioned rated at #76 by Prep Hoops. Rivals has Evans at #13. There are 6 teams in the B1G with 2 or more committed recruits that average higher than #44 in some ranking or another? If the B1G is been recruiting at that level, that makes the recent lack of tournament success all the more frustrating!

Bottom line... Johnson was hired to recruit. He's pulled in the highest rated recruit in recent memory. The staff showed some coaching moxie last year getting a bunch of unheralded players to play together for a whole season and not stink up the joint.

No one is saying Johnson will be the next Wooden but many see hope on the horizon. Why are you trying so hard to rain on a tiny hint of optimism? All MN fans are ready for the other shoe to drop so just let them be happy for a day or two!
 

Dakota2 said:
Would you trade Evans and Christie for any two non-Gophers on that list?
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If he can continue to get kids like that who cares where they come from, hasn't happened in a long time though.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
Totally different programs. MN has more in common with the Marquette bball program. It is about dang time we quit chasing suburban mn kids who do not want to in the city. Bout dam time.
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What is with your obsession with Wisconsin recruiting white kids from Minnesota? It’s quite bizarre.
 

ecoperson said:
I used the MN kids as an EXAMPLE of doing well in the limited time that he had. Was Johnson the lead recruiter for any of them? I don't follow Xavier recruiting.

Fleck is not a fair comparison in any way, shape, or form. He was the hottest name in coaching. There are few high school players nationally who hadn't seen the work he had done at Western Michigan. That Johnson got some high end MN kids to consider the team so late in the recruiting cycle could be seen as a positive. Or, like many on this board, they will only see that these kids committed elsewhere and write it off as another negative.
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The 'hottest coach' has nothing to do with it. It's not like he immediately reeled in a bunch of 5*s. Johnson had 13 years of D1 college basketball recruiting experience, including 5 at the U, which is far more than PJ had prior to becoming head coach here. All those 'late in the recruiting cycle kids' had offers from MN for a long time, and Ben already had relationships with those high school coaching staffs, and likely those players.

Not counting the 22 recruiting class is like not counting Pitino's 2nd class of Nate Mason, Squirrel, Konate, and Diedhiou. Everyone counts that class as Pitino's as they should. It's a ridiculous statement. As a Ben supporter, you should be a believer in last year's class, I don't know why you're trying to downplay it.

ecoperson said:
I have seen Christie mentioned rated at #76 by Prep Hoops. Rivals has Evans at #13. There are 6 teams in the B1G with 2 or more committed recruits that average higher than #44 in some ranking or another? If the B1G is been recruiting at that level, that makes the recent lack of tournament success all the more frustrating!
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Now you're just cherry picking and using conformation bias to choose whichever site has the highest ranking to try and prove a point. This is why I always use the 247 composite. By that metric, there are 20 players currently committed to B1G teams in the 23 class ranked higher than Christie so far, and that will likely increase by signing day. There were also 20 players that signed in the B1G ranked higher than Christie in the 22 class. So that's 40 players across the B1G over the last two classes just ranked higher than Christie, who is the 2nd highest ranked high school recruit Ben has brought in, behind Evans. And we won't see either for another year.

ecoperson said:
Bottom line... Johnson was hired to recruit. He's pulled in the highest rated recruit in recent memory. The staff showed some coaching moxie last year getting a bunch of unheralded players to play together for a whole season and not stink up the joint.

No one is saying Johnson will be the next Wooden but many see hope on the horizon. Why are you trying so hard to rain on a tiny hint of optimism? All MN fans are ready for the other shoe to drop so just let them be happy for a day or two!
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So yes recruiting is improving, I am very excited about Evans signing. That's a positive. I'm not trying to be negative, I'm just realistic when I see people making up stuff like 'we played all of our games close', 'Ben only inherited Ihnen', 'the coaching was great last year' when all of those are false.

Recruiting couldn't have started any worse than it did, we finished last in the B1G and routinely had our doors blown off in conference play, we were last in the conference in defense, and now we have another thin roster that is expected by most to finish 12th-14th in the conference again this season.

If Ben can finish higher than that, can convince Garcia and Battle to stick around next year, and the freshman besides Payne (who I think will be really good) look like they will be good players, then you'll see a lot more positivity from me for what could be a really good team next year.
 

So tired of rehashing this. Not many kids want to stay in their home state. I put in our primary neighbors, added Ohio just to add a B10 team and Virginia, since they put out so much talent, and they have had significant success, with a recent championship when these kids would have been early in high school or middle school, and you would think that recency bias would work in their favor. You can do this for damn near any state.

Ranked top 200 on 247:

2022 from wisconsin:
Seth Trimble - UNC
Leon Bond - Virginia
Danilo Jovanovich - Miami

2021 wisconsin:
Patrick Baldwin - Milwaukee
Tyrese Hunter - ISU
Brandin Podziemski - Illinois
David Joplin - Marquette
Kobe Johnson - USC Pac 12

2022 iowa:
Josh Dix - iowa
Tamin Lipsey - ISU

2021 iowa:
Emarion Ellis - Marquette
Tucker Devries - Drake
Payton Sandfort - iowa

2022 Ohio:
Mike Sharavjamts - Dayton
Sencire Harris - Illinois
Josiah Harris - West Virginia
Sean Jones - Marquette
Paul McMillan - N/A
Evan Mahaffey - PSU

2021 Ohio:
Malaki Branham - OSU
Logan Duncomb - Indiana
Markus Ilver - Wisconsin
Kalen Etzler - OSU
Seth Wilson - West Virginia

2022 Virginia:
Chris Livingston - UK
Judah Mintz - Syracuse
Tyler Nickel - UNC
Devin Ree - Louisville
Dug McDaniel - Michigan
Alphonze Billups - VCU
Donald Hand - BC
Christian Reeves - Duke
Kanye Clary - PSU

2021 Virginia:
Trevor Keels - Duke
Roosevelt Wheeler - Louisville
Cam Carter - Miss State
Miles Kelly - GT
Darius Johnson - UCF
Tyler Beard - Georgetown
Elijah Kennedy - Floria
Angelo Brizzi - Villanova
Jalen Ricks - Wichita
 


beatles said:
What is with your obsession with Wisconsin recruiting white kids from Minnesota? It’s quite bizarre.
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Spaulding does have a point, just maybe not so broad on the spectrum. You have to identify and find kids who want to go to school in a metro setting. Just like Wisconsin has to for Madison. He is a little obsessive though
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
The 'hottest coach' has nothing to do with it. It's not like he immediately reeled in a bunch of 5*s. Johnson had 13 years of D1 college basketball recruiting experience, including 5 at the U, which is far more than PJ had prior to becoming head coach here. All those 'late in the recruiting cycle kids' had offers from MN for a long time, and Ben already had relationships with those high school coaching staffs, and likely those players.
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Of course 'hottest coach' has something to do with it. It is the sole reason that people were irked that Johnson was hired. They wanted a coach with a stronger resume... including one that had been a head coach. Fleck had just won big at W. MI with a well-known brand and Pitino had a name. Huge head start that allowed them to get into a player's living room. Bateman doesn't even pick up the phone, let alone sign here if Fleck was not the hottest coaching name out there.
GopherWeatherGuy said:
Not counting the 22 recruiting class is like not counting Pitino's 2nd class of Nate Mason, Squirrel, Konate, and Diedhiou. Everyone counts that class as Pitino's as they should. It's a ridiculous statement. As a Ben supporter, you should be a believer in last year's class, I don't know why you're trying to downplay it.
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Of course, we should count Pitino's 2nd class. That class was solely built on the relationships that he built. Sadly it shows Pitino's lack of relationship building as he was forced to take 2 flyers on raw players that, ironically, he had an even weaker relationship with. Unless you are a stud head coach moving from one blue blood to another ala Roy Williams or Bill Self, I think a coach's first class should not be held against them.
GopherWeatherGuy said:
Now you're just cherry picking and using conformation bias to choose whichever site has the highest ranking to try and prove a point. This is why I always use the 247 composite. By that metric, there are 20 players currently committed to B1G teams in the 23 class ranked higher than Christie so far, and that will likely increase by signing day. There were also 20 players that signed in the B1G ranked higher than Christie in the 22 class. So that's 40 players across the B1G over the last two classes just ranked higher than Christie, who is the 2nd highest ranked high school recruit Ben has brought in, behind Evans. And we won't see either for another year.
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I know that I am cherry picking. I encourage you to do the same. Go look up the highest rating for every B1G recruit and get back with me.

If you want to use the composite, tell me how many teams have 2 or more recruits ranked higher than Christie.

I am only interested in this class because this entire conversation was spurred by your tamping down the excitement over Evans committing here by confidently asserting that "Other B1G teams continue to add Evans level recruits as well." No one cares about the other teams at this point. We only care about or recent LACK of success recruiting 5* talent from out of state- let alone from MN. We'll let the games speak for themselves later.
GopherWeatherGuy said:
So yes recruiting is improving, I am very excited about Evans signing. That's a positive. I'm not trying to be negative, I'm just realistic when I see people making up stuff like 'we played all of our games close', 'Ben only inherited Ihnen', 'the coaching was great last year' when all of those are false.
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Did you look at the margins that I posted? We were literally in all but a handful of games. For every game that we "hit some 3's at the end to make the final appear closer," there were also games where the other team pulled away late to make a close game appear less competitive.
GopherWeatherGuy said:
Recruiting couldn't have started any worse than it did, we finished last in the B1G and routinely had our doors blown off in conference play, we were last in the conference in defense, and now we have another thin roster that is expected by most to finish 12th-14th in the conference again this season.
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Weren't you just suggesting to me earlier that I was short changing our recruits by not counting them? Now "recruiting couldn't have started any worse?" I presume that you are including transfers? I would say Battle and Willis would disagree and a few others were solid but not spectacular- about what I would expect for a new head coach walking in the door without any film.

You were watching a different channel than I did. This team did not "routinely get their doors blown off." Johnson and company got this rag-tag team to play competitively despite the short-comings of the players.

Where do you get that this year's roster is thin? Last year was the year where we had only a handful of players at time. This roster has some proven top-end talent at the top and some young and inexperienced depth- it is certainly not 'thin.'

Many here are seeing reason for new optimism after suffering with great inconsistency over Pitino's tenure. Let's let them play at least one game in 2022 before we write this team off.
 

I don’t know why you guys rip on Pitino’s recruiting so much. He got some very good players and would probably still be here if Reggie could have stayed eligible and Oturu hadn’t left too early for the pros.

On paper he put some good lineups out there and was consistently hosed by scandals and injuries. Kalesheur’s lost shooting didn’t help either.
 

ecoperson said:
Of course 'hottest coach' has something to do with it. It is the sole reason that people were irked that Johnson was hired. They wanted a coach with a stronger resume... including one that had been a head coach. Fleck had just won big at W. MI with a well-known brand and Pitino had a name. Huge head start that allowed them to get into a player's living room. Bateman doesn't even pick up the phone, let alone sign here if Fleck was not the hottest coaching name out there.

Of course, we should count Pitino's 2nd class. That class was solely built on the relationships that he built. Sadly it shows Pitino's lack of relationship building as he was forced to take 2 flyers on raw players that, ironically, he had an even weaker relationship with. Unless you are a stud head coach moving from one blue blood to another ala Roy Williams or Bill Self, I think a coach's first class should not be held against them.

I know that I am cherry picking. I encourage you to do the same. Go look up the highest rating for every B1G recruit and get back with me.

If you want to use the composite, tell me how many teams have 2 or more recruits ranked higher than Christie.

I am only interested in this class because this entire conversation was spurred by your tamping down the excitement over Evans committing here by confidently asserting that "Other B1G teams continue to add Evans level recruits as well." No one cares about the other teams at this point. We only care about or recent LACK of success recruiting 5* talent from out of state- let alone from MN. We'll let the games speak for themselves later.

Did you look at the margins that I posted? We were literally in all but a handful of games. For every game that we "hit some 3's at the end to make the final appear closer," there were also games where the other team pulled away late to make a close game appear less competitive.

Weren't you just suggesting to me earlier that I was short changing our recruits by not counting them? Now "recruiting couldn't have started any worse?" I presume that you are including transfers? I would say Battle and Willis would disagree and a few others were solid but not spectacular- about what I would expect for a new head coach walking in the door without any film.

You were watching a different channel than I did. This team did not "routinely get their doors blown off." Johnson and company got this rag-tag team to play competitively despite the short-comings of the players.

Where do you get that this year's roster is thin? Last year was the year where we had only a handful of players at time. This roster has some proven top-end talent at the top and some young and inexperienced depth- it is certainly not 'thin.'

Many here are seeing reason for new optimism after suffering with great inconsistency over Pitino's tenure. Let's let them play at least one game in 2022 before we write this team off.
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PJ's 2nd class counts, Pitino's 2nd class counts because of 'relationships', but BJ's 2nd class doesn't count because he 'doesn't have relationship's' even though he had been recruiting the college landscape for 13 years including 5 years to the U. Nonsensical. Bateman picked up the phone when MN called because he didn't have any other P5 offers at the the time. He would have listened to any P5 coach.

Now you want me to cherry pick because you're cherry picking? No, that's not how you do data analysis. But I wouldn't expect anything different from you.

What proven top end talent does this roster have? Battle was very good on a very bad team last season. Garcia is a top talent, but still has a lot to prove on the court. Neither have played for a winning team. The rest are ?s. Yes we are incredibly thin, especially at guard. We have 11 scholarship players available this year, 1 of those was a walk-on in Ramberg, 1 was a very mediocre player at a bad, lower level program in Samuels, and 5 are true freshman who we have no idea how good or bad they will be, especially Henley, Ola-Joseph, and Betts who are complete roll of the dice development players.

We lost 17 B1G games last season by an average of 12 ppg. Yeah we are definitely watching a different channel, I know I am watching the Gophers though.
 

beatles said:
What is with your obsession with Wisconsin recruiting white kids from Minnesota? It’s quite bizarre.
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Their obsession is being a troll. Put them on ignore, and when they realize that they get no response, they'll just go away.
 


you can choose to find reasons to be optimistic, or you can choose to find reasons to be pessimistic, and in each case you can make a credible argument to support your point of view.

because it's not a "yes or no" type of question. it's more of an essay question, where grading depends on multiple factors including personal preference of the person doing the grading.

I had a college prof who use to grade assignments with statements like "it doesn't do anything for me."

in the end, if you like Ben, you're more likely to be optimistic. If you have questions about Ben, you're more likely to be pessimistic.

If you do have questions about Ben, I just hope they're based on basketball issues, and not on how ---- or why ---- he was hired.
 

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