Chip: I said it last year and will say it again: Gophers basketball is in really good hands with Ben Johnson.

[Dakota2]

Of course 'hottest coach' has something to do with it. It is the sole reason that people were irked that Johnson was hired. They wanted a coach with a stronger resume... including one that had been a head coach. Fleck had just won big at W. MI with a well-known brand and Pitino had a name. Huge head start that allowed them to get into a player's living room. Bateman doesn't even pick up the phone, let alone sign here if Fleck was not the hottest coaching name out there.

Of course, we should count Pitino's 2nd class. That class was solely built on the relationships that he built. Sadly it shows Pitino's lack of relationship building as he was forced to take 2 flyers on raw players that, ironically, he had an even weaker relationship with. Unless you are a stud head coach moving from one blue blood to another ala Roy Williams or Bill Self, I think a coach's first class should not be held against them.

I know that I am cherry picking. I encourage you to do the same. Go look up the highest rating for every B1G recruit and get back with me.

If you want to use the composite, tell me how many teams have 2 or more recruits ranked higher than Christie.

I am only interested in this class because this entire conversation was spurred by your tamping down the excitement over Evans committing here by confidently asserting that "Other B1G teams continue to add Evans level recruits as well." No one cares about the other teams at this point. We only care about or recent LACK of success recruiting 5* talent from out of state- let alone from MN. We'll let the games speak for themselves later.

Did you look at the margins that I posted? We were literally in all but a handful of games. For every game that we "hit some 3's at the end to make the final appear closer," there were also games where the other team pulled away late to make a close game appear less competitive.

Weren't you just suggesting to me earlier that I was short changing our recruits by not counting them? Now "recruiting couldn't have started any worse?" I presume that you are including transfers? I would say Battle and Willis would disagree and a few others were solid but not spectacular- about what I would expect for a new head coach walking in the door without any film.

You were watching a different channel than I did. This team did not "routinely get their doors blown off." Johnson and company got this rag-tag team to play competitively despite the short-comings of the players.

Where do you get that this year's roster is thin? Last year was the year where we had only a handful of players at time. This roster has some proven top-end talent at the top and some young and inexperienced depth- it is certainly not 'thin.'

Many here are seeing reason for new optimism after suffering with great inconsistency over Pitino's tenure. Let's let them play at least one game in 2022 before we write this team off.

That's a lot of time spent responding to a clown who has nothing to say in the first place.

 

[salzie]

What is with your obsession with Wisconsin recruiting white kids from Minnesota? It’s quite bizarre.

That and ripping leidner is all he's got

 

[beatles]

That and ripping leidner is all he's got

And KFAN. Can’t forget about that.

 

[MNJay]

Huh?

You're already predicting 16 losses for the Johnson-led Gophers in the 2023-24 season? Based on the roster as I see it today, I do not see that happening. Let's let Johnson coach his 2nd season first before we try to project his 3rd year.

No...just to clear my post up... I was being sarcastic. I think it's absurd (or disingenuous) when guys on here say that we need to hold Coach Johnson accountable for his 16 conference losses.

If we start to win...no doubt they will still add in those 16 losses and say his overall record isn't good.

 

[ecoperson]

PJ's 2nd class counts, Pitino's 2nd class counts because of 'relationships', but BJ's 2nd class doesn't count because he 'doesn't have relationship's' even though he had been recruiting the college landscape for 13 years including 5 years to the U. Nonsensical. Bateman picked up the phone when MN called because he didn't have any other P5 offers at the the time. He would have listened to any P5 coach.

Now you want me to cherry pick because you're cherry picking? No, that's not how you do data analysis. But I wouldn't expect anything different from you.

What proven top end talent does this roster have? Battle was very good on a very bad team last season. Garcia is a top talent, but still has a lot to prove on the court. Neither have played for a winning team. The rest are ?s. Yes we are incredibly thin, especially at guard. We have 11 scholarship players available this year, 1 of those was a walk-on in Ramberg, 1 was a very mediocre player at a bad, lower level program in Samuels, and 5 are true freshman who we have no idea how good or bad they will be, especially Henley, Ola-Joseph, and Betts who are complete roll of the dice development players.

We lost 17 B1G games last season by an average of 12 ppg. Yeah we are definitely watching a different channel, I know I am watching the Gophers though.

Last post on subject… THIS is Johnson’s 2nd class. He HAS had time to build relationships and he appears to be good at getting in on talent early. This is his program now as head coach. Walking in the front door as head coach is significantly different. Johnson and Pitino clashed over recruiting which is one of the reasons he left.

Battle was just named first team so most don’t feel that he was only good on a bad team. Garcia put up good #s in his first year with 13.0 ppg / 6.6 rpg- albeit on a team that finished under .500. His highlights included 28 pts at Villanova and 24 pts in Marquette’s 83-70 win over the Tar Heels in the Smith Center.

Garcia left NC mid season last year due to family issues. He most certainly proved it on the court. He averaged 9.0 ppg / 5.5 rpg despite dealing with distractions. He had a game high 26/8 vs. #6 Purdue.

Cooper was a highly sought transfer that suits this team’s needs well. Samuels has been a solid player including a strong game last year against Stanford. The fresh were all receiving offers and attention from other Power 5 schools. Betts blew up this summer and was gaining significant attention.

This team may have lost by an average of 12 ppg last year but clearly punched above their weight and were gamers… despite a brand new roster of less heralded players. Many saw promise in the leadership under these difficult circumstances. Pitino-led teams lost by much higher margins in the past.
We will soon find out how the team does in year 2 with Johnson at the helm. Go Gophers!

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Easy on the name calling.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Ben wasn’t being ushered into a winning program ala Gard.

He is building a program, massive difference. Some people in life and subsequently on a forum like this, enjoy/get off on being argumentative. Being right about every subject is their manna from heaven. In my experience, they are not happy people in life and are pissed off about something frequently, are narcissistic and have a limited perspective on what is important in life, i.e. don’t major in the minors.

Evans specifically said he likes Ben’s style of play, as have other recruits as well, IIRC.
Last year was about implementing his system and laying the groundwork for subsequent seasons: building the foundation on rock and not sand, so it will last and weather any storm - learned this from a good friend of mine.

Lastly, Ben had to deal with portal exodus and rebuild the roster on the fly and his recruitment started when he was hired in March.

I am happy with what was achieved on a macro level last year.

 

[golfing18now]

No...just to clear my post up... I was being sarcastic. I think it's absurd (or disingenuous) when guys on here say that we need to hold Coach Johnson accountable for his 16 conference losses.

If we start to win...no doubt they will still add in those 16 losses and say his overall record isn't good.

He's still accountable for his first year record. When people were citing Pitino's record before he was fired, he wasn't give a pass for his record in year three when he reset the roster. BUT.....Ben Johnson would rightly be viewed differently after year three if his first three conference record were
4-16, 10-10, 16-4 vs.
10-10, 10-10, 10-10 vs.
16-4, 10-10, 4-16
even though overall it would be the same record.

I think coaches are evaluated as much as anything against expectations. Expectations were very low last year so most people still have a decent opinion of Ben Johnson thus far. Now let's see what he does on the court in year two with a better roster.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

He's still accountable for his first year record. When people were citing Pitino's record before he was fired, he wasn't give a pass for his record in year three when he reset the roster. BUT.....Ben Johnson would rightly be viewed differently after year three if his first three conference record were
4-16, 10-10, 16-4 vs.
10-10, 10-10, 10-10 vs.
16-4, 10-10, 4-16
even though overall it would be the same record.

I think coaches are evaluated as much as anything against expectations. Expectations were very low last year so most people still have a decent opinion of Ben Johnson thus far. Now let's see what he does on the court in year two with a better roster.

I agree with you.

with one quibble:

on "expectations," it depends a lot on who is setting the expectations, and whether they are reasonable expectations. of course, that hinges on what you consider 'reasonable' expectations to be. shoot, this board could run off a 10-page thread just arguing on how to set reasonable expectations, because everyone has their own definition of what is reasonable.

going into the season - without Fox and Ihnen - I would say my baseline expectations for the Gophers would be to have an overall winning record and win enough B1G games so they are not playing on the opening day of the conference tournament.

others might set their sights higher.

 

[WindyCityGopher]

Izzo gave Monson props, gave Tubby props, gave Pitino props. I'm glad he also gave Johnson props. I'm hopeful Ben is the best coach in our lifetime, but whether he's the best or the worst, Izzo will give him props.

Go Gophers!!

Izzo is the absolute king of the condescending pat on the head.

 

[golfing18now]

I agree with you.

with one quibble:

on "expectations," it depends a lot on who is setting the expectations, and whether they are reasonable expectations. of course, that hinges on what you consider 'reasonable' expectations to be. shoot, this board could run off a 10-page thread just arguing on how to set reasonable expectations, because everyone has their own definition of what is reasonable.

going into the season - without Fox and Ihnen - I would say my baseline expectations for the Gophers would be to have an overall winning record and win enough B1G games so they are not playing on the opening day of the conference tournament.

others might set their sights higher.

That's a fair question. I definitely want to see a step forward this year. Maybe without putting too much thought into and without looking at their schedule, I would put the over/under at 8 wins during the conference season.

If they win over 8 games in conference, I would be pleasantly surprised.
If they win less than 8 games in conference, I would be disappointed but not necessarily throwing in the towel on the Johnson regime.

Also need to see player development this year and guys growing for next year.

 

[SelectionSunday]

going into the season - without Fox and Ihnen - I would say my baseline expectations for the Gophers would be to have an overall winning record and win enough B1G games so they are not playing on the opening day of the conference tournament.

others might set their sights higher.

This.

Avoiding Weakling Wednesday is “the thing” for me this season. Do that and there’s clear progress. It means they’ve likely won somewhere between 7-9 conference games.

The idea is to gradually move up in the conference pecking order & pass other programs. And the very first step is to stop hanging out with the company of Nebraska, Northwestern, and Penn State. I’m especially curious how the Gophers & Penn State fare. Both are in Year 2 of what appear to be encouraging hires.

 

[SelectionSunday]

Izzo is the absolute king of the condescending pat on the head.

Yep.

Love Izzo, but he pours it on when talking about other coaches/teams. He’s got some Lou Holtz in him.

 

[jovs]

That's a fair question. I definitely want to see a step forward this year. Maybe without putting too much thought into and without looking at their schedule, I would put the over/under at 8 wins during the conference season.

If they win over 8 games in conference, I would be pleasantly surprised.
If they win less than 8 games in conference, I would be disappointed but not necessarily throwing in the towel on the Johnson regime.

Also need to see player development this year and guys growing for next year.

He got started late last year and the injuries to both Ihnen and Fox is a huge imact, but year to year improvements are going to be reflected probably only in Thompson this year, I expect Battle to be comparable to last year, just aren't going to be that noticeable differences in his game. It is going to be hard to gage improvements. Meshing together the pieces is going to be the difference again, with better talent the results should be improved.

 

[Chico Gopher]

He got started late last year and the injuries to both Ihnen and Fox is a huge imact, but year to year improvements are going to be reflected probably only in Thompson this year, I expect Battle to be comparable to last year, just aren't going to be that noticeable differences in his game. It is going to be hard to gage improvements. Meshing together the pieces is going to be the difference again, with better talent the results should be improved.

Fan perspective of player development is also incredibly subjective. For some, it's mostly stat driven and for others it's stuff that doesn't always show up on the scoresheet. Obviously, areas of needed growth vary from player to player, and again much of it might be areas that we fans might not notice from just watching games. A lot of coaches also have a different perspective of what they're looking for as compared to we fans.