CBS: Florida withdraws scholarship offer to QB Marcus Stokes after video surfaces of him rapping racial slur

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Six to Eight said:
Nice ad hominem attack. Safe to assume you prefer an extremely polarized society with highly subjective rules and inconsistent enforcement.
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I prefer my life to yours, I'll tell you that much.

Carry on.
 



I blame Bleed for this, thanks for chumming the board for the extreme far righties!
 


Gophers1992 said:
Is the frustration that white people can’t use the word, or that block people can? Either way that’s weird.
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The frustration is that it's just a word and with every other word we read it in context (the way words are meant to be read). In this one instance, with just these one types of people, it's strict liability. If the word is said, you're dead. I think it makes the kid look stupid but at this point I can't tell if that's because I think the act was so bad or that he should know the world will have this fake reaction to it (probably a mix of both). Either way, the reaction also drastically outweighs the "crime".

I have no interest in saying the word and I don't care if black people want to say the word however that doesn't mean if I see someone disproportionately punished for it, I can't notice that disproportionality.

The topic of this thread is clearly whether or not you agree with the Marcos Stokes' punishment. So the whole "why do you want to say the word so bad" thing is a cop out. It's not like the posters here shoe-horned it into some other topic - - it IS the topic here. You're trying to guilt people away from having an opinion that is different from yours.

Do you think it would be proportionate punishment for a player to lose their scholarship if they were caught singing along to a popular song with incredibly misogynist lyrics?
What if the lyrics celebrated violence?
What if they were homophobic?
Would that standard be the same if the player was black or white?
 




Gopher028 said:
Let me put it as simple as necessary...

If white people cant say it, black people cant say it.
If black people CAN say it, white people CAN say it.

It's a two way street or the street is closed.
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Nope :)
 


Do I understand the following correctly -- when the original rapper rapped this word it was not a racial slur but when a white person quoted the rapper it became a racial slur. Can context matter in situations like these?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
The frustration is that it's just a word and with every other word we read it in context (the way words are meant to be read). In this one instance, with just these one types of people, it's strict liability. If the word is said, you're dead. I think it makes the kid look stupid but at this point I can't tell if that's because I think the act was so bad or that he should know the world will have this fake reaction to it (probably a mix of both). Either way, the reaction also drastically outweighs the "crime".

I have no interest in saying the word and I don't care if black people want to say the word however that doesn't mean if I see someone disproportionately punished for it, I can't notice that disproportionality.

The topic of this thread is clearly whether or not you agree with the Marcos Stokes' punishment. So the whole "why do you want to say the word so bad" thing is a cop out. It's not like the posters here shoe-horned it into some other topic - - it IS the topic here. You're trying to guilt people away from having an opinion that is different from yours.

Do you think it would be proportionate punishment for a player to lose their scholarship if they were caught singing along to a popular song with incredibly misogynist lyrics?
What if the lyrics celebrated violence?
What if they were homophobic?
Would that standard be the same if the player was black or white?
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1. The kid isn't "dead" he simply lost a scholarship. He will get one somewhere else. This idea that his life is now over is a complete overreaction.
2. I don't think there's a standard punishment that needs to apply in any given scenario. The University of Florida has the right to decide whether or not they want this kid on their team. They are not obligated to keep a kid's scholarship for one reason or another.

Again, I don't think Stokes is some white hood wearing overt racist, he is simply getting a life lesson. As long as he learns from it and makes better decisions going forward, he will be just fine.
 



Gophers1992 said:
1. The kid isn't "dead" he simply lost a scholarship. He will get one somewhere else. This idea that his life is now over is a complete overreaction.
2. I don't think there's a standard punishment that needs to apply in any given scenario. The University of Florida has the right to decide whether or not they want this kid on their team. They are not obligated to keep a kid's scholarship for one reason or another.

Again, I don't think Stokes is some white hood wearing overt racist, he is simply getting a life lesson. As long as he learns from it and makes better decisions going forward, he will be just fine.
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(1) I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I hope this was an intentional example of ignoring context when analyzing language. I clearly do not think Stokes was sentenced to death or somehow spontaneously combusted from saying the word. It was a figure of speech.

(2) Of course it doesn't need to apply. I'm not saying Florida CAN'T pull the scholarship, I'm just saying that in my opinion it was not a proper reaction. This thread is about whether or not that punishment was appropriate, I think we all understand that it's legal.

I don't know anything about Stokes. Maybe he is racist and maybe he is an awful person, I have no idea.

More or less, I was answering your question as to why someone would think the punishment was inappropriate and not want to use the word (or care if black people used the word).
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
(1) I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I hope this was an intentional example of ignoring context when analyzing language. I clearly do not think Stokes was sentenced to death or somehow spontaneously combusted from saying the word. It was a figure of speech.

(2) Of course it doesn't need to apply. I'm not saying Florida CAN'T pull the scholarship, I'm just saying that in my opinion it was not a proper reaction. This thread is about whether or not that punishment was appropriate, I think we all understand that it's legal.

I don't know anything about Stokes. Maybe he is racist and maybe he is an awful person, I have no idea.

More or less, I was answering your question as to why someone would think the punishment was inappropriate and not want to use the word (or care if black people used the word).
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I know you didn't mean he's dead, I just was saying that people who are throwing words like "canceled" around are overreacting. It's impossible to say what a proper reaction is because there's no one size fits all answer there. I wouldn't have done what UF did, but I don't think that makes it inappropriate. I'm not outraged by him saying the word, and I'm not outraged by the consequences he is facing, but to act like there isn't a different meaning when a white person uses the word vs a black person is ignoring a lot of history behind how the word has been used. If someone has a problem with that double standard, what assumptions can we make other than that they are frustrated that white people can't say it, or that black people can? It simply should not matter to people, as it's very easy to not use the word.
 

Gophers1992 said:
1. The kid isn't "dead" he simply lost a scholarship. He will get one somewhere else. This idea that his life is now over is a complete overreaction.
2. I don't think there's a standard punishment that needs to apply in any given scenario. The University of Florida has the right to decide whether or not they want this kid on their team. They are not obligated to keep a kid's scholarship for one reason or another.

Again, I don't think Stokes is some white hood wearing overt racist, he is simply getting a life lesson. As long as he learns from it and makes better decisions going forward, he will be just fine.
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It's rare I defend anything Florida, but no commitment yet, so? Also if you were in the interviewing process, you can lose a job if they don't like your social media posts/ profile.
 

Gopher028 said:
Nope, what? You're trying to say certain groups can say things other groups can't say? LMAO!!!!!!!!!! Nope :)
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Lol this is the last time I'll address on here for those on here that have no idea what they are talking about.

Certain groups say words internally that outsiders are NOT allowed to say. Some examples that come to mind.

The F word in the gay community, I have gay friends that say this word to other gay people all the time. I would NEVER say this word, not my place. Do I care that they say it? NOT AT ALL. Not my place to dictate how they choose to re-purpose a word originally used for hate to show solidarity within THEIR group. Can I have opinions on it? Sure free country, but really not my place to say IF ICANT SAY IT NOBODY CAN!! Imagine the short sightedness.

Another example is the B word to describe women. I have heard certain women call other women this as a term of joking endearment. I think we all understand the context of the word is a little different when a man says it no?

If you or anyone else has a problem with not being able to say a word because your "group" really isn't entitled to say it based on society in a scenario IDENTICAL but even MORE sensitive to my previous examples, you should ask yourself, why do you feel the need to say it at all? IF you don't feel the need why do you feel the need to dictate that others who can don't say it? A look in the mirror is required.

Last point I'll make is that all of you are spineless on here poking out your chests, because truth is you wouldn't say shit in real life if you heard a black person say it much less tell them to stop saying that word, or if you want to humor me and say you have confronted someone for saying it, what was their reaction? You would mumble under your breath and keep it moving.
 

kix4kix said:
Lol this is the last time I'll address on here for those on here that have no idea what they are talking about.

Certain groups say words internally that outsiders are NOT allowed to say. Some examples that come to mind.

The F word in the gay community, I have gay friends that say this word to other gay people all the time. I would NEVER say this word, not my place. Do I care that they say it? NOT AT ALL. Not my place to dictate how they choose to re-purpose a word originally used for hate to show solidarity within THEIR group. Can I have opinions on it? Sure free country, but really not my place to say IF ICANT SAY IT NOBODY CAN!! Imagine the short sightedness.

Another example is the B word to describe women. I have heard certain women call other women this as a term of joking endearment. I think we all understand the context of the word is a little different when a man says it no?

If you or anyone else has a problem with not being able to say a word because your "group" really isn't entitled to say it based on society in a scenario IDENTICAL but even MORE sensitive to my previous examples, you should ask yourself, why do you feel the need to say it at all? IF you don't feel the need why do you feel the need to dictate that others who can don't say it? A look in the mirror is required.

Last point I'll make is that all of you are spineless on here poking out your chests, because truth is you wouldn't say shit in real life if you heard a black person say it much less tell them to stop saying that word, or if you want to humor me and say you have confronted someone for saying it, what was their reaction? You would mumble under your breath and keep it moving.
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Imagine how cool it would be if there was a book with all the spoken words of its respective language that could actually define what those words mean. But instead we just have folks making the shit up as they go.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
The frustration is that it's just a word and with every other word we read it in context (the way words are meant to be read). In this one instance, with just these one types of people, it's strict liability. If the word is said, you're dead. I think it makes the kid look stupid but at this point I can't tell if that's because I think the act was so bad or that he should know the world will have this fake reaction to it (probably a mix of both). Either way, the reaction also drastically outweighs the "crime".

I have no interest in saying the word and I don't care if black people want to say the word however that doesn't mean if I see someone disproportionately punished for it, I can't notice that disproportionality.

The topic of this thread is clearly whether or not you agree with the Marcos Stokes' punishment. So the whole "why do you want to say the word so bad" thing is a cop out. It's not like the posters here shoe-horned it into some other topic - - it IS the topic here. You're trying to guilt people away from having an opinion that is different from yours.

Do you think it would be proportionate punishment for a player to lose their scholarship if they were caught singing along to a popular song with incredibly misogynist lyrics?
What if the lyrics celebrated violence?
What if they were homophobic?
Would that standard be the same if the player was black or white?
Click to expand...
Thank you for this thoughtful response. This is the first post that I disagree with in here where I have seen actually containing some nuance to the question at hand.

While I disagree with your opinion, your alternative examples being relevant, and your comment regarding the goal of most posters in here goal being to 'address the disproportionality of punishment', I can acknowledge that you at least acknowledged the complexities of this topic. Any controversial topic is not black and white. No pun intended.
 
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goldengophers said:
I blame Bleed for this, thanks for chumming the board for the extreme far righties!
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Yes. Everyone with an opinion "right" of yours is clearly that. When I review the posts, it's like it's a KKK meeting in here. ;)
 

kix4kix said:
Thank you for this thoughtful response. This is the first post that I disagree with in here where I have seen actually containing some nuance to the question at hand.

While I disagree with your opinion, your alternative examples being relevant, and your comment regarding the goal of most posters in here goal being to 'address the disproportionality of punishment', I can acknowledge that you at least acknowledged the complexities of this topic. Any controversial topic is not black and white. No pun intended.
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Well said, I don't totally agree with Bob but he does typically have logical, well thought-out responses to every topic, including this one.
 

kix4kix said:
Thank you for this thoughtful response. This is the first post that I disagree with in here where I have seen actually containing some nuance to the question at hand.

While I disagree with your opinion, your alternative examples being relevant, and your comment regarding the goal of most posters in here goal being to 'address the disproportionality of punishment', I can acknowledge that you at least acknowledged the complexities of this topic. Any controversial topic is not black and white. No pun intended.
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Dude. Use Grammarly next time. Seriously. https://www.grammarly.com/
 

kix4kix said:
Lol this is the last time I'll address on here for those on here that have no idea what they are talking about.
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I doubt it.

kix4kix said:
Certain groups say words internally that outsiders are NOT allowed to say. Some examples that come to mind........
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You just gave a set of examples of the philosophy that you personally ascribe to. You gave no rationale as to why that should be the ideal for everyone in our society. As in, fluid and exclusive standards on who can say what and when. If we can get passed the personal insults, I'd ask you not to regurgitate tribal doctrine, and give some actual logic.

I'm not holding my breath, because I think the topic is actually just the standard old theme of human competition and struggle for power. Not to be confused with ethics.
 




Bob_Loblaw said:
The frustration is that it's just a word and with every other word we read it in context (the way words are meant to be read). In this one instance, with just these one types of people, it's strict liability. If the word is said, you're dead. I think it makes the kid look stupid but at this point I can't tell if that's because I think the act was so bad or that he should know the world will have this fake reaction to it (probably a mix of both). Either way, the reaction also drastically outweighs the "crime".

I have no interest in saying the word and I don't care if black people want to say the word however that doesn't mean if I see someone disproportionately punished for it, I can't notice that disproportionality.

The topic of this thread is clearly whether or not you agree with the Marcos Stokes' punishment. So the whole "why do you want to say the word so bad" thing is a cop out. It's not like the posters here shoe-horned it into some other topic - - it IS the topic here. You're trying to guilt people away from having an opinion that is different from yours.

Do you think it would be proportionate punishment for a player to lose their scholarship if they were caught singing along to a popular song with incredibly misogynist lyrics?
What if the lyrics celebrated violence?
What if they were homophobic?
Would that standard be the same if the player was black or white?
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I agree with this.
It is my understanding from my very limited exposure that Black rappers use the N-word with abandon and frequently.
If he was merely, I will not use singing for rap isn't singing to me, using the words that are in the song why is it a big deal.
FL was tied in knots over a QB they promised $$$$ that they did not have and used this episode as an excuse to pull the scholarship of this kid.
 

It would be awesome if Jackson State gave him a scholarship!
 



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