Cause for Concern?: Tubby, recruiting efforts, program direction, etc.

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Barnes Is Decent Coach, Tubby Is Better

Some of Barnes' players make it to NBA. I think Tubby has a better track record (over 15 years) than Barnes in terms of players-to-NBA.

Texas is a great place to recruit. Austin is a great city. Weather is gorgeous. No pressure to W at football school. Kansas is the dominant Big 12 program, not Texas.
 

Don't Fret

Scotty Hopson who plays for Tennessee, supposed to be this big one and done guy chose Tennessee over UK. He was from Hopkinsville, KY, a Mcdonalds AA but he's been pretty sub par for the Vols in 2 years on the court. Tubby never recruited that kid and neither did Gillispie. I don't know if Hopson will make the NBA, he might but his chances are no better than the guy from Kentucky we took, Darius Miller.

There's not huge talent up your way, izzo has got detroit locked down, the northeastern kids end up in the big east. So you have to get Juco guys about every year and hope to land 1 or 2 out of state and the best your state can produce, that's about it. But sometimes even the local kids aren't a good fit as you guys are well aware of.

Chicago is about the only other city close enough and many of those kids end up at the more elite programs. How many kids from the south want to spend a winter in Minnesota? Apparently Sampson III and that's about it.
 

notagopherfan said:
Scotty Hopson who plays for Tennessee, supposed to be this big one and done guy chose Tennessee over UK. He was from Hopkinsville, KY, a Mcdonalds AA but he's been pretty sub par for the Vols in 2 years on the court. Tubby never recruited that kid and neither did Gillispie. I don't know if Hopson will make the NBA, he might but his chances are no better than the guy from Kentucky we took, Darius Miller.

There's not huge talent up your way, izzo has got detroit locked down, the northeastern kids end up in the big east. So you have to get Juco guys about every year and hope to land 1 or 2 out of state and the best your state can produce, that's about it. But sometimes even the local kids aren't a good fit as you guys are well aware of.

Chicago is about the only other city close enough and many of those kids end up at the more elite programs. How many kids from the south want to spend a winter in Minnesota? Apparently Sampson III and that's about it.
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More kentucky fans.... Actually we have NO juco players on our team, and there is more talent in the midwest than in the south. I don't know if you have noticed, but the SEC is a weak basketball conference. If you don't agree, please look at the players that have and are coming out of Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, Indiana, Ohio etc. who has kentucky producd in talent lately that is actually from kentucky? pretty sure your "recruits" if you can't call them paid employees are not from the south in 2011.
 

Go Gophs eh? said:
Actually we have NO juco players on our team
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Come again?

WYCRQNOCDSGZHCG.20091021212649.jpg


Go Gophs eh? said:
who has kentucky producd in talent lately that is actually from kentucky?
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What's your point? Kentucky doesn't have to recruit Kentucky to be successful. They can more or less pick and choose from the top players in the country. Minnesota cannot be successful without doing well in Minnesota and the surrounding states.
 

TM is not just some juco player we picked up to fill roster spots, he was a scholarship player from Marquette who was a 4 star recruit and is form Minnesota, thats a hell of a big difference from Bostick and Carter
 


Go Gophs eh? said:
TM is not just some juco player we picked up to fill roster spots, he was a scholarship player from Marquette who was a 4 star recruit and is form Minnesota, thats a hell of a big difference from Bostick and Carter
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Is he, or is he not, a JuCo recruit?
 


Go Gophs eh? said:
Is he, or is he not your average no name JuCo recruit?
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Good job avoiding the question.

I didn't see anywhere in his post that he said "average no name" juco.

Please go ahead and point that out for me. K, thanks.
 

I take it you think almost all juco players aren't very good.

Go Gophs eh? said:
TM is not just some juco player we picked up to fill roster spots, he was a scholarship player from Marquette who was a 4 star recruit and is form Minnesota, thats a hell of a big difference from Bostick and Carter
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Not saying that at all, However, how many JuCo players were 4 star recruits who already played a season at a big time school in the Big East, most JuCo players are either developing or had trouble with grades or attitude, Trevor had none of those traits
 

dpodoll,

Just an FYI, Monson did take the team to the 2005 NCAA tournament.
 

notagopherfan said:
Scotty Hopson who plays for Tennessee, supposed to be this big one and done guy chose Tennessee over UK. He was from Hopkinsville, KY, a Mcdonalds AA but he's been pretty sub par for the Vols in 2 years on the court. Tubby never recruited that kid and neither did Gillispie. I don't know if Hopson will make the NBA, he might but his chances are no better than the guy from Kentucky we took, Darius Miller.

There's not huge talent up your way, izzo has got detroit locked down, the northeastern kids end up in the big east. So you have to get Juco guys about every year and hope to land 1 or 2 out of state and the best your state can produce, that's about it. But sometimes even the local kids aren't a good fit as you guys are well aware of.

Chicago is about the only other city close enough and many of those kids end up at the more elite programs. How many kids from the south want to spend a winter in Minnesota? Apparently Sampson III and that's about it.
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BOTH Tubby AND Gillispie recruited Hopson. But he wanted to be "shown the love" more.

Minnesota has >>> than Kentucky (in HS ranks). Not even close.

Southern players signed by Tubby at Minnesota are Sampson III from Atlanta and Hollins from Memphis.
 

notagopherfan said:
Scotty Hopson who plays for Tennessee, supposed to be this big one and done guy chose Tennessee over UK. He was from Hopkinsville, KY, a Mcdonalds AA but he's been pretty sub par for the Vols in 2 years on the court. Tubby never recruited that kid and neither did Gillispie. I don't know if Hopson will make the NBA, he might but his chances are no better than the guy from Kentucky we took, Darius Miller.

There's not huge talent up your way, izzo has got detroit locked down, the northeastern kids end up in the big east. So you have to get Juco guys about every year and hope to land 1 or 2 out of state and the best your state can produce, that's about it. But sometimes even the local kids aren't a good fit as you guys are well aware of.

Chicago is about the only other city close enough and many of those kids end up at the more elite programs. How many kids from the south want to spend a winter in Minnesota? Apparently Sampson III and that's about it.
Click to expand...

Joke for you.

What do you call a Kentuckian with 4 teeth?

Siamese twins.
 



True, but Trevor still counts as a juco player. Plenty of very good juco players out there.

Go Gophs eh? said:
Not saying that at all, However, how many JuCo players were 4 star recruits who already played a season at a big time school in the Big East, most JuCo players are either developing or had trouble with grades or attitude, Trevor had none of those traits
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"5) Tubby is to blame for Royce White doing all the idiotic things he has done, and for Trevor Mbakwe being charged with a felony? He is responsible for Al Nolen being a dumba$$ and not keeping himself eligible? I mean, seriously? If you truly believe any of those things, you may as well stop following Gopher sports, because you will never be satisfied."

I think the point many people are missing is exactly that: Tubby is to blame for those things. How much of a crystal ball do you need to predict Royce and Trevor are going have issues? Their
high school careers were filled with issues. If a guy gets kicked out of a sports friendly high school for cheating, among his other red flags, are you still recruiting him? If a guy has been to what? 5 different high schools and colleges in 5 years and is constantly auditioning new homes in high school and college....you can't see issues coming? Is it a credit to win those recruiting battles? How many good coaches do you think passed on both?

It is 2010, you got double figures in people on the basketball staff and you can't keep a player elgible? That is negligence on the staff's part.

Switching to coaching: Tubby's quote: "Damian Johnson is the best defender I have ever coached" He didn't guard Evan Turner because?

Better than Monson is not the $2million threshold.
 

60's Guy said:
"5) Tubby is to blame for Royce White doing all the idiotic things he has done, and for Trevor Mbakwe being charged with a felony? He is responsible for Al Nolen being a dumba$$ and not keeping himself eligible? I mean, seriously? If you truly believe any of those things, you may as well stop following Gopher sports, because you will never be satisfied."

I think the point many people are missing is exactly that: Tubby is to blame for those things. How much of a crystal ball do you need to predict Royce and Trevor are going have issues? Their
high school careers were filled with issues. If a guy gets kicked out of a sports friendly high school for cheating, among his other red flags, are you still recruiting him? If a guy has been to what? 5 different high schools and colleges in 5 years and is constantly auditioning new homes in high school and college....you can't see issues coming? Is it a credit to win those recruiting battles? How many good coaches do you think passed on both?

It is 2010, you got double figures in people on the basketball staff and you can't keep a player elgible? That is negligence on the staff's part.

Switching to coaching: Tubby's quote: "Damian Johnson is the best defender I have ever coached" He didn't guard Evan Turner because?

Better than Monson is not the $2million threshold.
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That's your FIRST post?

Any future posts will only get better because your first one is one of the dumbest I've ever read.
 


anonymous said:
dpodoll,

Just an FYI, Monson did take the team to the 2005 NCAA tournament.
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Yes, I'm aware. In fact, I vividly remember watching that Vincent Grier-led team lose to Iowa St. from the weight room at Columbia Heights, where I was substitute teaching for the PE teacher.

What's your point?
 

Should we expect Tubby to win a Big Ten title here? Is it a reasonable expectation?
 


minngg said:
Should we expect Tubby to win a Big Ten title here? Is it a reasonable expectation?
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If it isn't, he's overpaid at $2.5 mil/year.

It was my belief and understanding that the reason we brought Tubby here and made him one of the top paid coaches in the country was for exactly the reason you stated; to win, or at least heavily compete for Big 10 titles.

If we aren't paying him for that, we can find plenty of quality coaches around the country that can get us 6-7th place finishes without spending 1/2 that money.

Granted, I don't think it could happen right away given the state of the program he took over. However, if he doesn't win or heavily compete for a Big 10 title in the next 3-4 years, I'll personally say that he isn't worth the money we're paying him.

Are those expectations too high?

For all of the stats that FoT runs off about Tubby being one of the top few coaches in the game today, with all of the conference titles he has won, and all of his career wins, asking for ONE Big 10 title, or at least heavily competing for it (2nd) in his first 7 years at the U should NOT be expecting too much.

Just to give you some persective, here are some of the top coaches in the Big 10, and their number of Big 10 titles (Tubby is paid more than all of them except Izzo, with more head coaching experience at the D1 level than anyone on the list as well, having 4 more years than Izzo):

Tom Izzo - 6 Big 10 titles, 4 titles in his first 6 years in the league
Bo Ryan - 3 Big 10 titles in his first 7 years in the league
Thad Matta - 3 Big 10 titles in his first 6 years in the league
Bruce Weber - 2 Big 10 titles in his first 3 years in the league
Matt Painter - 1 Big 10 title in his first 6 years in the league

If Tubby can't even win ONE Big 10 title in his first 7 years, given that track record above; I think we're seriously overpaying him.
 

I concur. If Tubby's here for another 4-7 years, I would expect a Big Ten championship of some sort (preferably of the regular-season variety) in his first 7 to 10 seasons. Not unrealistic at all.
 

SelectionSunday said:
I concur. If Tubby's here for another 4-7 years, I would expect a Big Ten championship of some sort (preferably of the regular-season variety) in his first 7 to 10 seasons. Not unrealistic at all.
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This is reasonable. Except for me it needs to be a regular season title. To me the Big Ten tournament is far less significant except for it's impact on bubble teams and seeding. Most any team can get hot for 3-4 days.
 

ShowinGoldyLove said:
If it isn't, he's overpaid at $2.5 mil/year.

It was my belief and understanding that the reason we brought Tubby here and made him one of the top paid coaches in the country was for exactly the reason you stated; to win, or at least heavily compete for Big 10 titles.

If we aren't paying him for that, we can find plenty of quality coaches around the country that can get us 6-7th place finishes without spending 1/2 that money.

Granted, I don't think it could happen right away given the state of the program he took over. However, if he doesn't win or heavily compete for a Big 10 title in the next 3-4 years, I'll personally say that he isn't worth the money we're paying him.

Are those expectations too high?

For all of the stats that FoT runs off about Tubby being one of the top few coaches in the game today, with all of the conference titles he has won, and all of his career wins, asking for ONE Big 10 title, or at least heavily competing for it (2nd) in his first 7 years at the U should NOT be expecting too much.

Just to give you some persective, here are some of the top coaches in the Big 10, and their number of Big 10 titles (Tubby is paid more than all of them except Izzo, with more head coaching experience at the D1 level than anyone on the list as well, having 4 more years than Izzo):

Tom Izzo - 6 Big 10 titles, 4 titles in his first 6 years in the league
Bo Ryan - 3 Big 10 titles in his first 7 years in the league
Thad Matta - 3 Big 10 titles in his first 6 years in the league
Bruce Weber - 2 Big 10 titles in his first 3 years in the league
Matt Painter - 1 Big 10 title in his first 6 years in the league

If Tubby can't even win ONE Big 10 title in his first 7 years, given that track record above; I think we're seriously overpaying him.
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Absolutely. 25 W per season (average) the rest of his tenure. Big 10 title every 3-4 years. Tubby won 7 conference titles in his first 16 years as HC, averaged 24 W per season.
 

Don't bother posting again...

60's Guy said:
"5) Tubby is to blame for Royce White doing all the idiotic things he has done, and for Trevor Mbakwe being charged with a felony? He is responsible for Al Nolen being a dumba$$ and not keeping himself eligible? I mean, seriously? If you truly believe any of those things, you may as well stop following Gopher sports, because you will never be satisfied."

I think the point many people are missing is exactly that: Tubby is to blame for those things. How much of a crystal ball do you need to predict Royce and Trevor are going have issues? Their
high school careers were filled with issues. If a guy gets kicked out of a sports friendly high school for cheating, among his other red flags, are you still recruiting him? If a guy has been to what? 5 different high schools and colleges in 5 years and is constantly auditioning new homes in high school and college....you can't see issues coming? Is it a credit to win those recruiting battles? How many good coaches do you think passed on both?

It is 2010, you got double figures in people on the basketball staff and you can't keep a player elgible? That is negligence on the staff's part.

Switching to coaching: Tubby's quote: "Damian Johnson is the best defender I have ever coached" He didn't guard Evan Turner because?

Better than Monson is not the $2million threshold.
Click to expand...
 


This thread may have expressed a valid concern initially, but it's quickly turned worthless. Geeze. And who cares how much Tubby makes? Really? I know the AD has to break even and there is a limit, but the basketball program still takes in far more then it pay out. Would you really be happier with Tubby if he made $1.5 million? Does Brewster get a free pass because he makes so little? Salary is a terrible basis for evaluating a college coach.
 


Dumb Because?

"That's your FIRST post?

Any future posts will only get better because your first one is one of the dumbest I've ever read."

I do appreciate your confidence in me. Thank you. I have a question for you: Dumb, because you disagree? (which is not shocking considering your moniker) Or dumb because something I said was not accurate?

Your philosophy can be different, that is your opinion to which you are entitled, but the facts lead me to a different philosophy. We ask players to be accountable all the time. What about coaches who make poor character decisions in recruiting? When the gamble doesn't work and the program suffers, who is accountable for that? You seem to believe the player is and the coach is blameless?
I'm suggesting the behavior was pretty predictable, which puts the blame on the coach.
 

60's Guy said:
"That's your FIRST post?

Any future posts will only get better because your first one is one of the dumbest I've ever read."

I do appreciate your confidence in me. Thank you. I have a question for you: Dumb, because you disagree? (which is not shocking considering your moniker) Or dumb because something I said was not accurate?

Your philosophy can be different, that is your opinion to which you are entitled, but the facts lead me to a different philosophy. We ask players to be accountable all the time. What about coaches who make poor character decisions in recruiting? When the gamble doesn't work and the program suffers, who is accountable for that? You seem to believe the player is and the coach is blameless?
I'm suggesting the behavior was pretty predictable, which puts the blame on the coach.
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The latter. Dumb because your post is inaccurate, as others have agreed (above).

Absolutely Royce White is utterly accountable for his actions.
 

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