Buggs/Ellenson on par with big 3?

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Golden_Sloth

Golden_Sloth

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Hey G'Holers,

Been lurking for a few months now, and am just starting to get into the recruiting talk. I was looking at espn's recruiting profiles and was surprised to see that Wally Ellenson and Charles Buggs both have a higher "Scout Grade" than Reid Travis, and not far behind Jones and Vaughn.

This is what they have for grades:

Tyus Jones: 96
Rashad Vaughn: 93
Wally Ellenson: 90
Charles Buggs: 89
Reid Travis: 87


Are Ellenson & Buggs actually this highly regarded? I was under the impression that the big 3 were a LOT better than any recruits we've landed in recent years.
 

Neither Ellenson nor Buggs were in their top 150. All three of the Minnesota players are. Perhaps the difference in grades are in the methodology, which may have changed. Also, you're comparing senior marks to junior marks. ESPN may increase the marks accordingly in a few months. Finally, this year's freshman class could simply be better than the Big 3's class, although I hope that's not true as this year's freshman aren't nearly as strong as last year's class.
 

I believe the grading system changed dramatically this past year. The Big 3 are under the new system and Buggs and Ellenson were under the old system. Under the new grading system Buggs and Ellenson would more likely be in the mid to low 70s, thus far behind the Big 3.
 

Golden_Sloth said:
Hey G'Holers,

Been lurking for a few months now, and am just starting to get into the recruiting talk. I was looking at espn's recruiting profiles and was surprised to see that Wally Ellenson and Charles Buggs both have a higher "Scout Grade" than Reid Travis, and not far behind Jones and Vaughn.

This is what they have for grades:

Tyus Jones: 96
Rashad Vaughn: 93
Wally Ellenson: 90
Charles Buggs: 89
Reid Travis: 87


Are Ellenson & Buggs actually this highly regarded? I was under the impression that the big 3 were a LOT better than any recruits we've landed in recent years.
Click to expand...

If you're talking about ESPN's rankings, they just completely changed the grading scale for players. It's a lot harder now to crack a 90 as a "Scout Grade."
 

Golden_Sloth said:
Hey G'Holers,

Been lurking for a few months now, and am just starting to get into the recruiting talk. I was looking at espn's recruiting profiles and was surprised to see that Wally Ellenson and Charles Buggs both have a higher "Scout Grade" than Reid Travis, and not far behind Jones and Vaughn.

This is what they have for grades:

Tyus Jones: 96
Rashad Vaughn: 93
Wally Ellenson: 90
Charles Buggs: 89
Reid Travis: 87


Are Ellenson & Buggs actually this highly regarded? I was under the impression that the big 3 were a LOT better than any recruits we've landed in recent years.
Click to expand...
ESPN changes their ranking systems almost every year so it's really hard to compare with different years. Rashad and Tyus are way better than Buggs and Ellenson. If Reid excels playing with Tyus he'll probably bump up to a five star.
 




When It comes to rating and projecting 17-18 year olds, the very best you can hope for is about 65% prediction at the next level. At that age there can be as much as a 4 year development difference. Meaning high school players can be 16 -20 years in development. There is the can't miss high school player who disappears on the college stage. More often its the late bloomer who stars. Basing a 3 star rating on players who just finished their junior year, is premature. Think of the top recruiting schools every year. Duke, Kansas, North Carolina. Surely they get the players they want. What happens, can't the coach coach the talent? Recruiting is a crap shoot. If 2 of three recruits pan out, play meaningful minutes, an contribute that about the best you can hope for. If 1 becomes all conference, that is icing. The Big 3 in Minnesota. All in the top 150 at their position. Mark this down, only one and maybe only one will start and contribute at the next level. And I can't tell you which one.
 

husker70 said:
When It comes to rating and projecting 17-18 year olds, the very best you can hope for is about 65% prediction at the next level. At that age there can be as much as a 4 year development difference. Meaning high school players can be 16 -20 years in development. There is the can't miss high school player who disappears on the college stage. More often its the late bloomer who stars. Basing a 3 star rating on players who just finished their junior year, is premature. Think of the top recruiting schools every year. Duke, Kansas, North Carolina. Surely they get the players they want. What happens, can't the coach coach the talent? Recruiting is a crap shoot. If 2 of three recruits pan out, play meaningful minutes, an contribute that about the best you can hope for. If 1 becomes all conference, that is icing. The Big 3 in Minnesota. All in the top 150 at their position. Mark this down, only one and maybe only one will start and contribute at the next level. And I can't tell you which one.
Click to expand...


That's really funny stuff you wrote there.
 



Wally Ellenson

Golden_Sloth said:
Hey G'Holers,

Been lurking for a few months now, and am just starting to get into the recruiting talk. I was looking at espn's recruiting profiles and was surprised to see that Wally Ellenson and Charles Buggs both have a higher "Scout Grade" than Reid Travis, and not far behind Jones and Vaughn.

This is what they have for grades:

Tyus Jones: 96
Rashad Vaughn: 93
Wally Ellenson: 90
Charles Buggs: 89
Reid Travis: 87


Are Ellenson & Buggs actually this highly regarded? I was under the impression that the big 3 were a LOT better than any recruits we've landed in recent years.
Click to expand...

Wally Ellenson (and hopefully his brother Henry) will fit in very well with Coach Pitino's system and be an important player (starter) for the Minnesota Gophers basketball team
 

minnesotafisherman said:
Wally Ellenson (and hopefully his brother Henry) will fit in very well with Coach Pitino's system and be an important player (starter) for the Minnesota Gophers basketball team
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I actually told someone that here in Wisconsin right after Coach was hired. Wally will be much more of a fit than the pass-pass-pass-stand around-pass to Dre offense Tubby ran.
 

WhoFellDownTheGopherHole? said:
Charles Buggs is going to be everyone's favorite player on this team within two years' time.
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tumblr_m6ha2uyfh71rwcc6bo1_400.gif


He's going to be what we hoped Rodney would eventually become.
 

StCroix said:
I actually told someone that here in Wisconsin right after Coach was hired. Wally will be much more of a fit than the pass-pass-pass-stand around-pass to Dre offense Tubby ran.
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That's cause Tubby essentially recruited to play the style that Pitino plays for the most part. He just hasn't gone to it, for whatever reason, as often as it sounds like Pitino has/hopefully will. Almost every guy on the roster, outside of maybe Big Mo, is more suited for an uptempo game than they are for a half-court game. That's part of what gives me a little hope that maybe we can be better than I anticipate next season.

I can't lie, I do have high hopes for Buggs, he just looks like a guy we'll really embrace as time goes on from his personality, and hopefully his game as well.
 




Odd how things sometimes work out. Monson before he left signed a pretty underwhelming two man class of Nolen and Hoffarber. That turned out to be a very productive duo that helped Tubby get off to a better than expected start. I am thinking that Tubby may have handed Pitino the same gift in Buggs and Ellenson.
 

Side comment: I didn't realize until now that Wally is only 6'4". For some reason, I thought he was 6'7" or 6'8".
 

bga1 said:
Odd how things sometimes work out. Monson before he left signed a pretty underwhelming two man class of Nolen and Hoffarber. That turned out to be a very productive duo that helped Tubby get off to a better than expected start. I am thinking that Tubby may have handed Pitino the same gift in Buggs and Ellenson.
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To be fair, Hoffarber was a top 100 player.
 

joshvanklomp said:
Side comment: I didn't realize until now that Wally is only 6'4". For some reason, I thought he was 6'7" or 6'8".
Click to expand...

He is the shrimp of the 3 Ellenson boys. Ellwood is 6-7 and Henry is about 6-8, 6-9
 

bga1 said:
Odd how things sometimes work out. Monson before he left signed a pretty underwhelming two man class of Nolen and Hoffarber. That turned out to be a very productive duo that helped Tubby get off to a better than expected start. I am thinking that Tubby may have handed Pitino the same gift in Buggs and Ellenson.
Click to expand...

I think Tubby may have intended to hand Pitino an even bigger gift.
 

husker70 said:
When It comes to rating and projecting 17-18 year olds, the very best you can hope for is about 65% prediction at the next level. At that age there can be as much as a 4 year development difference. Meaning high school players can be 16 -20 years in development. There is the can't miss high school player who disappears on the college stage. More often its the late bloomer who stars. Basing a 3 star rating on players who just finished their junior year, is premature. Think of the top recruiting schools every year. Duke, Kansas, North Carolina. Surely they get the players they want. What happens, can't the coach coach the talent? Recruiting is a crap shoot. If 2 of three recruits pan out, play meaningful minutes, an contribute that about the best you can hope for. If 1 becomes all conference, that is icing. The Big 3 in Minnesota. All in the top 150 at their position. Mark this down, only one and maybe only one will start and contribute at the next level. And I can't tell you which one.
Click to expand...

It's almost shocking how confused and oblivious you are.
 

Gopherguy0723 said:
To be fair, Hoffarber was a top 100 player.
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There was a lot of debate about what Hoff was. Monson was attempting to get Hoff to walk on at one point. I don't think he was looked at as a concensus top 100, although he might have made some lists.
 

husker70 said:
Mark this down, only one and maybe only one will start and contribute at the next level. And I can't tell you which one.
Click to expand...

Stick to being a Husker sycophant on the football board. This is even less of a strong suit for you.
 

Vaughn and Jones are both the number one rated players at their position, they're more likely to be one and done than be bust. While it is true that if you go back and look at the espn 100 from say four or five years ago you'll see a number of guys who didn't pan out, but the very cream of the crop i.e the Derik Rose and Kyrie Irvings of the would always make it and that's were Vaughn and Jones fall in. Travis seems like a bright kid with a good head on his shoulders, not the type of kid who would have problems. Pending the players' health I thing the big 3 all have great college careers
 

I'm hoping that Ellenson and Buggs are in that category, but I can't believe they are even close. Jones and Vaughn look incredible, I can't imagine that Ellenson and Buggs wouldn't have been starting at the U last year if they were in the same world as Jones and Vaughn.

That's not to insult those guys, I'm excited to see what happens with them next year.

As far as Buggs. . .I consider him to be Paul Carter, how close am I?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
As far as Buggs. . .I consider him to be Paul Carter, how close am I?
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Way off, at least from an athleticism point of view. I think Buggs probably has a better jumper and handles. Carter was a hybrid forward that leaned toward a PF in college. Buggs is a hybrid forward that leans closer to a SF. I've posted this video a million times, but you can tell Buggs has Rodney type athleticism with a much better handle and jumper...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=oJAFzt983ao#t=48s

I think Carter was around 6'7 and Buggs is 6'9 so he's got a little more height as well.
 

I get the feeling by the hype on GH that Buggs could be a bust.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I'm hoping that Ellenson and Buggs are in that category, but I can't believe they are even close. Jones and Vaughn look incredible, I can't imagine that Ellenson and Buggs wouldn't have been starting at the U last year if they were in the same world as Jones and Vaughn.

That's not to insult those guys, I'm excited to see what happens with them next year.

As far as Buggs. . .I consider him to be Paul Carter, how close am I?
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Why did you have to bring Carter up? Every time I think of the class of Carter, Bostick, Sampson, Iverson and Joseph I think about what might have been if Tubby could have been able to motivate them and get them all to play to their potential. A ton of athleticism there.
 

joshvanklomp said:
Side comment: I didn't realize until now that Wally is only 6'4". For some reason, I thought he was 6'7" or 6'8".
Click to expand...

Wally is 6-4 to 6-5 but plays bigger due to his jumping ability. His younger brothers are taller but don't jump as well. With that being said, the youngest brother Henry is a very skilled big man that will have more offers than either of his older brothers. I hope we get to watch both Wally and Henry in maroon and gold.
 

goldengophers said:
I get the feeling by the hype on GH that Buggs could be a bust.
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Nah, he just might turn out to be what most expected for a mid 3 star kid. But there's no denying that he possesses some tantalizing skill sets that if all harnessed well, could turn him into quite a player, and that's why people are excited to see him in action out there for real. He's just a very intriguing player.
 

bga1 said:
Why did you have to bring Carter up? Every time I think of the class of Carter, Bostick, Sampson, Iverson and Joseph I think about what might have been if Tubby could have been able to motivate them and get them all to play to their potential. A ton of athleticism there.
Click to expand...

Carter was one of the best recruiting gems of the Tubby era. It was just Tubby and the U's bad luck that he had to transfer out for family reasons. I don't know what ever happened to his sister, but last reports I heard (around the time he was transferring) were not good. Hopefully she ended up being alright though.
 

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