BTN Picks Gophers to Finish Last in Conference

[dpodoll68]

Maybe just let it go.

No. Thanks, though.

It's not that big of a deal

Obviously, I disagree. I'm not going to let people push their agendas without saying something, especially when they're using blatantly false information to do so.

 

[BarnBurner]

Maybe just let it go. It's not that big of a deal, the season is over.

He cant let it go. Still loves tubby. Wont let it go.

Even though tubby woefully underperformed for 6 seasons, he is still the best of the best for barbie doll.

Tied for 7th is an accomplishment for barbie.

 

[dpodoll68]

He cant let it go.

Damn right. I will never let factual inaccuracies go. If people would just stick to facts, I'd never have to correct anyone. People get sooo defensive when called out for being wrong, which says a lot about them and their position.

Still loves tubby.

Wrong. Never did love Tubby. I love my wife and kids. I have respect for Tubby, and know that he is a good coach who got the shaft. None of that has anything to do with what place the Gophers finished in 2012-13.

Even though tubby woefully underperformed for 6 seasons

Wrong.

he is still the best of the best for barbie doll

Who's that?

Tied for 7th is an accomplishment for barbie.

Again, who?

 

[jaymil]

No. Thanks, though.



Obviously, I disagree. I'm not going to let people push their agendas without saying something, especially when they're using blatantly false information to do so.

Pushing their agenda which is the fact that we had a disappointing season? Let them push all they want, they are right. Finishing 7th instead of 9th doesn't make me feel one bit better about how the season turned out. Clearly YOU are pushing an agenda by how seriously you take this 7th and 9th business despite how insignificant it is.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Yarina picks us last. Pregame.com has us as 35-1 odds to win the National Championship next year. Both are wrong!

I'll maintain my position that I'll be happy as a clam if we finish with more than 6 conference wins. That does fall somewhere in between those two disparate predictions.

 

[Dr.Don]

If we tie for last place in the Big Ten next year, does that mean we ended up eleventh or twelfth?

 

[dpodoll68]

Pushing their agenda which is the fact that we had a disappointing season?

No, their agenda to make Tubby's record at Minnesota appear worse than it is/was. (P.S. "we had a disappointing season" is an opinion, not a fact.)

Let them push all they want, they are right.

No. Their "facts" are categorically false. That's the entire point of the conversation. Try to keep up.

Finishing 7th instead of 9th doesn't make me feel one bit better about how the season turned out.

Good for you. Still doesn't mean that the Gophers finished 9th.

Clearly YOU are pushing an agenda by how seriously you take this 7th and 9th business despite how insignificant it is.

Yes, I am pushing an agenda - the agenda of facts and telling the truth. I've never been anything but forthright about this. It's not news to anyone, except you apparently.

And virtually everyone would disagree that it's "insignificant". If factually stating standings and finishes is "insignificant", why do they keep standings? Why do they keep score? Everyone can just participate and get a ribbon. Whether they win or lose is "insignificant".

 

[BarnBurner]

Damn right. I will never let factual inaccuracies go. If people would just stick to facts, I'd never have to correct anyone. People get sooo defensive when called out for being wrong, which says a lot about them and their position.



Wrong. Never did love Tubby. I love my wife and kids. I have respect for Tubby, and know that he is a good coach who got the shaft. None of that has anything to do with what place the Gophers finished in 2012-13.



Wrong.



Who's that?



Again, who?

Shaft? Please.

Underperformed for 6 seasons. You love him. Wont admit it. The Big 10 results - you should familiarize yourself with them.

Barbie doll - did you tell Young Pitino that he cant win at MN since history has dictated the future results?

 

[Parski1]

Shaft? Please.

Underperformed for 6 seasons. You love him. Wont admit it. The Big 10 results - you should familiarize yourself with them.

Barbie doll - did you tell Young Pitino that he cant win at MN since history has dictated the future results?

C'mon...he's a good coach...nobody used the word "love".

 

[920/414 Gopher]

I wish this thread could just go back to bashing Brent Yarina at the very least.

 

[jovs]

Seems to me there is a decent amount of talent, can they develop and play with a little bit of confidence, if that happens I think they could surprise some people next year, they need a power forward and an additional scorer, maybe the emergence of Buggs or one of the newcomers and they could be every bit as good as last years team. Eliason showed some offensive skills at the end of the season, there may not be that big of a drop off at center.

 

[Dr.Don]

I have a question for all GopherHolers:

With all the expertise displayed on GopherHole by GopherHolers, have we ever had anyone hired by a college to do any scouting/recruiting?

 

[...]

I have a question for all GopherHolers:

With all the expertise displayed on GopherHole by GopherHolers, have we ever had anyone hired by a college to do any scouting/recruiting?

GW has been "HOTLY PURSUED talent."

I've been on both sides - as a hiring manager and as a HOTLY PURSUED talent...

 

[howieramone]

Seems to me there is a decent amount of talent, can they develop and play with a little bit of confidence, if that happens I think they could surprise some people next year, they need a power forward and an additional scorer, maybe the emergence of Buggs or one of the newcomers and they could be every bit as good as last years team. Eliason showed some offensive skills at the end of the season, there may not be that big of a drop off at center.

I agree jovs. One the best things I saw this year was when EE finally started looking for his shot. I like Wally and Buggs, and Coach P. is certainly looking everywhere for addtional pieces. Can't wait til we stick the press on them at the Barn.

 

[BarnBurner]

Pushing their agenda which is the fact that we had a disappointing season? Let them push all they want, they are right. Finishing 7th instead of 9th doesn't make me feel one bit better about how the season turned out. Clearly YOU are pushing an agenda by how seriously you take this 7th and 9th business despite how insignificant it is.

 

[OSUfan]

I think SS mentioned a key point. A coaching change can make a significant improvement in the play of a team even with many of the same players. Often guys play better after a fresh start, when things had gone stale. Will be interesting to see what Pitino can get out of this roster.

 

[Goldy Gopher]

I have a question for all GopherHolers:

With all the expertise displayed on GopherHole by GopherHolers, have we ever had anyone hired by a college to do any scouting/recruiting?

I coach college football at a JC so I do a lot of scouting and recruiting in regards to football.

 

[underground629]

How exactly did he get the shaft?

I have respect for Tubby, and know that he is a good coach who got the shaft.

 

[march madness]

I think Indiana will be in play for spots 4-7 with their graduation and nba losses. They remind me of how many on this board thought Ohio St. would be "way down" losing Sullinger and Buford and I pointed out how many 4 and 5 star guys they have on their roster. They will be talented but young for sure. And having a leader like Craft is huge. I am not sure what kind of leaders are left at Indiana. PG Ferrell, espn #3 pg of '12, sf Holloway #10 sf., Noah Vonleh #3pf 2013, T. Williams #10 sf, Fisher #7 center, Hanner M-P #15 sf '12. Plenty of talent here but little experience.
pg Ferrell
sg Abell
sf Sheehy
pf Vanleh
c Hanner M-P

Bench: F Hollowell, c Jurkin, wing Robinson, F Williams, c fisher
They could have a really deep team. Fisher may redshirt he need lots of weight.

 

[dpodoll68]

How exactly did he get the shaft?

I have challenged everyone on the board on multiple occasions to find a coach (who was clean) that was fired immediately after doing the following:

A) made the Tournament
B) won a game in the Tournament
C) had his best season at the school
D) had the school's best season in 23 years

You can no doubt find a handful who meet the criteria for A (Ben Howland being a recent example), but I doubt you'll find any for B-D. And Tubby met ALL FOUR. Since I've asked the question multiple times and gotten zero responses, I'm going to assume firing a coach immediately after achieving this level of success is unprecedented in the history of college basketball. Thus, you'd be hard-pressed to make an argument that his termination was "fair". Now, I understand that the world isn't "fair" and that things like this happen.

I also agree, understand, and accept that Teague was fully within his rights and his responsibilities to make the decision. What I do have a problem with is people pretending that Tubby was fired for some sort of god-awful performance, when in reality it was mostly a case of a new broom sweeping clean.

I also resent that some people can't believe or accept the fact that a person can feel that Tubby was treated unjustly and was disappointed at how things went down, while simultaneously still being excited for a new hire and fully in support of the selection.

When I counter the revisionist historians with the actual facts of Tubby's tenure, I get called a "Tubby apologist", often while being called stupid infantile nicknames. So be it. I'm not going to stop. The man committed the horrible crime of not living up to many's outsized expectations. Some talk about him like he banged their wife or killed their sister.

 

[howieramone]

I have challenged everyone on the board on multiple occasions to find a coach (who was clean) that was fired immediately after doing the following:

A) made the Tournament
B) won a game in the Tournament
C) had his best season at the school
D) had the school's best season in 23 years

You can no doubt find a handful who meet the criteria for A (Ben Howland being a recent example), but I doubt you'll find any for B-D. And Tubby met ALL FOUR. Since I've asked the question multiple times and gotten zero responses, I'm going to assume firing a coach immediately after achieving this level of success is unprecedented in the history of college basketball. Thus, you'd be hard-pressed to make an argument that his termination was "fair". Now, I understand that the world isn't "fair" and that things like this happen.

I also agree, understand, and accept that Teague was fully within his rights and his responsibilities to make the decision. What I do have a problem with is people pretending that Tubby was fired for some sort of god-awful performance, when in reality it was mostly a case of a new broom sweeping clean.

I also resent that some people can't believe or accept the fact that a person can feel that Tubby was treated unjustly and was disappointed at how things went down, while simultaneously still being excited for a new hire and fully in support of the selection.

When I counter the revisionist historians with the actual facts of Tubby's tenure, I get called a "Tubby apologist", often while being called stupid infantile nicknames. So be it. I'm not going to stop. The man committed the horrible crime of not living up to many's outsized expectations. Some talk about him like he banged their wife or killed their sister.

+1 I would add or eats little children.

 

[Bad Gopher]

I have challenged everyone on the board on multiple occasions to find a coach (who was clean) that was fired immediately after doing the following:

A) made the Tournament
B) won a game in the Tournament
C) had his best season at the school
D) had the school's best season in 23 years

You can no doubt find a handful who meet the criteria for A (Ben Howland being a recent example), but I doubt you'll find any for B-D. And Tubby met ALL FOUR. Since I've asked the question multiple times and gotten zero responses, I'm going to assume firing a coach immediately after achieving this level of success is unprecedented in the history of college basketball. Thus, you'd be hard-pressed to make an argument that his termination was "fair". Now, I understand that the world isn't "fair" and that things like this happen.

I also agree, understand, and accept that Teague was fully within his rights and his responsibilities to make the decision. What I do have a problem with is people pretending that Tubby was fired for some sort of god-awful performance, when in reality it was mostly a case of a new broom sweeping clean.

I also resent that some people can't believe or accept the fact that a person can feel that Tubby was treated unjustly and was disappointed at how things went down, while simultaneously still being excited for a new hire and fully in support of the selection.

When I counter the revisionist historians with the actual facts of Tubby's tenure, I get called a "Tubby apologist", often while being called stupid infantile nicknames. So be it. I'm not going to stop. The man committed the horrible crime of not living up to many's outsized expectations. Some talk about him like he banged their wife or killed their sister.

In my opinion:

There were performance issues or there would have been no firing. It was not a matter of cleaning house for the sake of cleaning house.

I respectfully disagree that he was treated unjustly. There is no injustice in dismissing someone for performance issues and paying him a generous severance.

 

[BarnBoy]

I have challenged everyone on the board on multiple occasions to find a coach (who was clean) that was fired immediately after doing the following:

A) made the Tournament
B) won a game in the Tournament
C) had his best season at the school
D) had the school's best season in 23 years

You can no doubt find a handful who meet the criteria for A (Ben Howland being a recent example), but I doubt you'll find any for B-D. And Tubby met ALL FOUR. Since I've asked the question multiple times and gotten zero responses, I'm going to assume firing a coach immediately after achieving this level of success is unprecedented in the history of college basketball. Thus, you'd be hard-pressed to make an argument that his termination was "fair". Now, I understand that the world isn't "fair" and that things like this happen.

I also agree, understand, and accept that Teague was fully within his rights and his responsibilities to make the decision. What I do have a problem with is people pretending that Tubby was fired for some sort of god-awful performance, when in reality it was mostly a case of a new broom sweeping clean.

I also resent that some people can't believe or accept the fact that a person can feel that Tubby was treated unjustly and was disappointed at how things went down, while simultaneously still being excited for a new hire and fully in support of the selection.

When I counter the revisionist historians with the actual facts of Tubby's tenure, I get called a "Tubby apologist", often while being called stupid infantile nicknames. So be it. I'm not going to stop. The man committed the horrible crime of not living up to many's outsized expectations. Some talk about him like he banged their wife or killed their sister.

Outsized expectations?

• Finish in the upper half of the B1G.. just once
• Don't collapse at the end of B1G seasons
• Try to hold onto most of your good recruits
• Develop players

Should we keep going?

Fair? Fair is honoring the severance. Fair is telling the nation in a press conference that he's an upstanding guy and we just needed to go a different direction.

Just because you can't find a precedent for your cherry-picked criteria, doesn't mean it wasn't fair.

 

[bga1]

I have challenged everyone on the board on multiple occasions to find a coach (who was clean) that was fired immediately after doing the following:

A) made the Tournament
B) won a game in the Tournament
C) had his best season at the school
D) had the school's best season in 23 years

You can no doubt find a handful who meet the criteria for A (Ben Howland being a recent example), but I doubt you'll find any for B-D. And Tubby met ALL FOUR. Since I've asked the question multiple times and gotten zero responses, I'm going to assume firing a coach immediately after achieving this level of success is unprecedented in the history of college basketball. Thus, you'd be hard-pressed to make an argument that his termination was "fair". Now, I understand that the world isn't "fair" and that things like this happen.

I also agree, understand, and accept that Teague was fully within his rights and his responsibilities to make the decision. What I do have a problem with is people pretending that Tubby was fired for some sort of god-awful performance, when in reality it was mostly a case of a new broom sweeping clean.

I also resent that some people can't believe or accept the fact that a person can feel that Tubby was treated unjustly and was disappointed at how things went down, while simultaneously still being excited for a new hire and fully in support of the selection.

When I counter the revisionist historians with the actual facts of Tubby's tenure, I get called a "Tubby apologist", often while being called stupid infantile nicknames. So be it. I'm not going to stop. The man committed the horrible crime of not living up to many's outsized expectations. Some talk about him like he banged their wife or killed their sister.

dp- Tubby met all the metrics for "average" for 6 years (his best coaching years were years 1 and 2). It's not that he had an average year last year-it's that he was average every year. Top that off with a general lack of enthusiasm for the job shown by Tubby and add to that the fact that he had worn out the fan base and you have a firing. Reason- no logical expectation for improvement.

 

[howieramone]

dp- Tubby met all the metrics for "average" for 6 years (his best coaching years were years 1 and 2). It's not that he had an average year last year-it's that he was average every year. Top that off with a general lack of enthusiasm for the job shown by Tubby and add to that the fact that he had worn out the fan base and you have a firing. Reason- no logical expectation for improvement.

You're right, let's keep piling on.

 

[dpodoll68]

Just because you can't find a precedent for your cherry-picked criteria, doesn't mean it wasn't fair.

They aren't "cherry-picked". They're the basic criteria for retention for every AQ head coach in the country.

1. Stay clean
2. Make the Tournament

Tubby did both, went more frequently in a 6-year period than any Gopher coach in history, and went further than any Gopher coach in 23 years.

The Big Ten finishes are a "nice to have", but if you're making the Tournament and advancing on an annual or near-annual basis, it's secondary. The most important thing is getting in and advancing. I guarantee you that Michigan fans don't give a sh1t that Michigan was the 5 seed in the BTT, like most posters here are so gd obsessed with the Gophers getting the 9th seed.

 

[jaymil]

They aren't "cherry-picked". They're the basic criteria for retention for every AQ head coach in the country.

1. Stay clean
2. Make the Tournament

Tubby did both, went more frequently in a 6-year period than any Gopher coach in history, and went further than any Gopher coach in 23 years.

The Big Ten finishes are a "nice to have", but if you're making the Tournament and advancing on an annual or near-annual basis, it's secondary. The most important thing is getting in and advancing. I guarantee you that Michigan fans don't give a sh1t that Michigan was the 5 seed in the BTT, like most posters here are so gd obsessed with the Gophers getting the 9th seed.

Can you really compare Tubby to past Gopher coaches? He was being paid a lot of money and expectations were higher than they've ever been (rightly so). For a guy being paid 2.1 million, 3 tourney appearances in 6 years with just 1 tourney win isn't good enough.

 

[BBQ Platypus]

Quite simply, this team didn't pass the eye test for a well-coached team. In fact, the team was remarkably poorly disciplined throughout Tubby's tenure. Whether you count the turnovers, late season collapses (which were clearly at least partially mental - the B1G being tough doesn't explain getting run out of the gym by Purdue), poor academic performance (Al Nolen, anyone?), or endless legal trouble (Royce, Trevor, Saul), there wasn't a single place on or off the court you didn't see turmoil. So while Tubby's teams were more successful than Monson's on the whole, all too often they were nearly as painful to watch - particularly in February.

If he were doing the kind of clean and steady job of turning the program that, say, Tad Boyle is doing in Colorado, I don't think Teague would have been quite so keen on a clean sweep. You can't just look at win-loss totals from a distance. The WAY you do things matters. Teague concluded - not unreasonably in my view - that things weren't being done the right way, particularly not if you expect anything more than mediocrity punctuated by submediocrity.

Tubby was an instant upgrade over Monson who brought us from the fourth quartile of the conference to the third. He also didn't get involved in any major scandals, and is an all-around decent human being. But there's still an awful lot you can fault him for, which is why he's in Lubbock now instead of Minneapolis.

 

[dpodoll68]

Can you really compare Tubby to past Gopher coaches? He was being paid a lot of money and expectations were higher than they've ever been (rightly so). For a guy being paid 2.1 million, 3 tourney appearances in 6 years with just 1 tourney win isn't good enough.

The money thing is a total non-factor to me. As others have said, if Tubby got the same results and we were paying him $1, would you have wanted to keep him forever? A salary is the cost of what it takes to obtain and retain someone's services - nothing more, nothing less. Are you expecting Pitino to be half as successful as you expected Tubby to be because he's getting paid half as much?

 

[jaymil]

The money thing is a total non-factor to me. As others have said, if Tubby got the same results and we were paying him $1, would you have wanted to keep him forever? A salary is the cost of what it takes to obtain and retain someone's services - nothing more, nothing less. Are you expecting Pitino to be half as successful as you expected Tubby to be because he's getting paid half as much?

You said it yourself, $1.2 million was enough to get Pitino here, now if he lives up to people's expectations he'll eventually be paid more than Tubby. From what I can tell from Teague's attitiude, he's willing to spend $2.5 million to a coach who can elevate this program instead of spending $2.1 million to a coach to stay in mediocrity.