Brewster fires back: "This is the same group of kids that beat Illinois and Iowa"

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FreakyDeke said:
Will someone from the "Kill is throwing the players under the bus" camp please explain this for me... There is a difference between "These players suck and there's no hope for them" and "The talent level right now is not what it needs to be because we are playing an unbelievable amount of freshman and the upperclassmen haven't been coached well (I'm sure he wouldn't say that, but it's true) and many are playing different positions." So why do you assume he means the first? The latter is the truth, and it's not the players faults, so why would they be offended that he says so?
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Okay, I'll bite. Everything is subject to interpretation but here are the quotes from his presser that stuck out to me.

"I think a guy at Nebraska said it best. I believe it was Frank Solich, who was head coach, is that you recruit them tough. You can't make them tough. You recruit good tacklers, you know. That's all part of the recruiting process."

- Implies to me that toughness / tackling are something you have to recruit for (an innate ability), which current players lack

"We can't do what we did at Northern Illinois last year because we're not gifted enough. Hell, we've got to quit trying to do it, because we can't. Don't ask somebody to do something they can't do. So we've got to do something different. That doesn't mean a drastic change. But we've got to simplify some things. Then if it just doesn't you know, somebody just runs over the top of you whatever, there ain't nothing you can do about that as a coach. But we're not mentally or physically doing what we need to do right now. I'm not throwing the kids under the bus, that's our responsibility. We got what we got. So mentally we have to reach them. This is more a mental thing than it is a physical thing. But you can't change anything physical."

- This paragraph is all over the place but I will note that when even Jerry has to check himself by saying "I'm not throwing the kids under the bus", that means he basically is. It's like saying "I'm not a racist, but..." Also note that "we're not gifted enough". How are his players supposed to react when they here over and over again they do not have enough talent and are physically unable to compete against teams? This may very well be the case, but from a team morale standpoint I have a hardtime believing it is helpful to repeat it after every loss.

As I stated, he definitely is taking some of blame but I don't see what harping on the physical and talent deficiencies of this teams does to improve anything for this year. The players he has are what they are. The only thing pointing out the talent shortfalls of this team does is help Jerry when answering his critics. There are other quotes from Sid columns, strib articles, and his radio show that more or less repeat what is said here.

To show I am somewhat even-handed, here is a clip from the presser where I think he does a great job:

"I can tell you right now a couple of them, as soon as University of Michigan went boom, boom, boom and scored, I think our kids went `Oh, no, here we go.' That's our MO. So you've got to fight out of that MO. Some of those younger kids, you know, you throw Tufts out there and Marcus Jones, they haven't been here long enough. They just go play. They don't know the difference. Tufts goes over, catches the ball, gets the heck knocked out of him. He doesn't know. Some of the older kids have been through some very difficult situations and mentally we just don't have a fight back mentality. Is that the kids' fault? No. It's our program's fault, and right now it's my fault because I'm the head coach. But I'm trying to change a mentality that's been embedded a little bit, and that's not easy to do. Shoot, we're working at it. I can tell that you. Lot of people go, "Coach, are you negative? Are you down?" No. It's a challenge. It's a great challenge. I came in Sunday, and we went to work. Hey, this is what we've got to do, man. Here it is. All right?"

Acknowledges the issues with the team, and promises to work to correct them without saying our team is physically unable to compete (which is probably true - the players just don't need to be reminded of it every week by the coach).

Anyways, Jerry needs four years and should get the backing of the fanbase and the admin. Maybe if the media sends Jerry a formal letter to state they understand the team has talent deficiencies we can stop hearing about it from the head coach
 

Throwing Players under the Bus?

I am baffled by the fact that so many believe Kill is throwing his players under the bus.

Lets be real, after hearing Brewster constantly use excessive praise for his players at pressers, it is no wonder people are saying Jerry Kill, is throwing his players under the bus, but Jerry Kill is not throwing his players under the bus. I guarantee you he is telling the players the same things, but if they are not listening when he is directly addressing them, he needs to use the public stage to get to them. Coach Kill is saying things about his team that can all be worked on by a player every day; focus on each play, academics, and building strength. He is simply using the public forum to get to these guys.
 

The bus was a Dodge Caravan

Never hang your dirty laundry out on the laundry line.

First, you have to fix the problem. Then you speak of the results. Mentioning a problem is not like teaching the kids the right way. Reminding them that they are broken, isn't like getting them prepared. It is the antithesis of preparation. Do. Not undue, which is a euphemism that confuses what actually occurs to "undo" a problem. If you want to train them to do something right. Do it incrementally. They get it right, let them know. Move to the next upgrade. They do it right, let them know. That feedback is not praise, it is reinforcing that they did it right. It has a secondary benefit of reinforcing work ethic and system structure. There is never a good reason to be negative.
 

AgonyTrain said:
Okay, I'll bite. Everything is subject to interpretation but here are the quotes from his presser that stuck out to me.

"I think a guy at Nebraska said it best. I believe it was Frank Solich, who was head coach, is that you recruit them tough. You can't make them tough. You recruit good tacklers, you know. That's all part of the recruiting process."

- Implies to me that toughness / tackling are something you have to recruit for (an innate ability), which current players lack

"We can't do what we did at Northern Illinois last year because we're not gifted enough. Hell, we've got to quit trying to do it, because we can't. Don't ask somebody to do something they can't do. So we've got to do something different. That doesn't mean a drastic change. But we've got to simplify some things. Then if it just doesn't you know, somebody just runs over the top of you whatever, there ain't nothing you can do about that as a coach. But we're not mentally or physically doing what we need to do right now. I'm not throwing the kids under the bus, that's our responsibility. We got what we got. So mentally we have to reach them. This is more a mental thing than it is a physical thing. But you can't change anything physical."

- This paragraph is all over the place but I will note that when even Jerry has to check himself by saying "I'm not throwing the kids under the bus", that means he basically is. It's like saying "I'm not a racist, but..." Also note that "we're not gifted enough". How are his players supposed to react when they here over and over again they do not have enough talent and are physically unable to compete against teams? This may very well be the case, but from a team morale standpoint I have a hardtime believing it is helpful to repeat it after every loss.

As I stated, he definitely is taking some of blame but I don't see what harping on the physical and talent deficiencies of this teams does to improve anything for this year. The players he has are what they are. The only thing pointing out the talent shortfalls of this team does is help Jerry when answering his critics. There are other quotes from Sid columns, strib articles, and his radio show that more or less repeat what is said here.

To show I am somewhat even-handed, here is a clip from the presser where I think he does a great job:

"I can tell you right now a couple of them, as soon as University of Michigan went boom, boom, boom and scored, I think our kids went `Oh, no, here we go.' That's our MO. So you've got to fight out of that MO. Some of those younger kids, you know, you throw Tufts out there and Marcus Jones, they haven't been here long enough. They just go play. They don't know the difference. Tufts goes over, catches the ball, gets the heck knocked out of him. He doesn't know. Some of the older kids have been through some very difficult situations and mentally we just don't have a fight back mentality. Is that the kids' fault? No. It's our program's fault, and right now it's my fault because I'm the head coach. But I'm trying to change a mentality that's been embedded a little bit, and that's not easy to do. Shoot, we're working at it. I can tell that you. Lot of people go, "Coach, are you negative? Are you down?" No. It's a challenge. It's a great challenge. I came in Sunday, and we went to work. Hey, this is what we've got to do, man. Here it is. All right?"

Acknowledges the issues with the team, and promises to work to correct them without saying our team is physically unable to compete (which is probably true - the players just don't need to be reminded of it every week by the coach).

Anyways, Jerry needs four years and should get the backing of the fanbase and the admin. Maybe if the media sends Jerry a formal letter to state they understand the team has talent deficiencies we can stop hearing about it from the head coach
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Excellent response, thank you. I don't remember hearing him say "we're not gifted enough." I guess I can see that being taken negatively, but really compared to Michigan and their recruiting advantages, it probably goes without saying. I'm not sure I agree with him about not being able to coach good tackling. I'll give him toughness, that's probably true.
 

Oneoldgopher said:
Never hang your dirty laundry out on the laundry line.

First, you have to fix the problem. Then you speak of the results. Mentioning a problem is not like teaching the kids the right way. Reminding them that they are broken, isn't like getting them prepared. It is the antithesis of preparation. Do. Not undue, which is a euphemism that confuses what actually occurs to "undo" a problem. If you want to train them to do something right. Do it incrementally. They get it right, let them know. Move to the next upgrade. They do it right, let them know. That feedback is not praise, it is reinforcing that they did it right. It has a secondary benefit of reinforcing work ethic and system structure. There is never a good reason to be negative.
Click to expand...

You call it negativity, I call it honest appraisal. There is a difference between the two. Anyways you cant always be like "nice job guy", "your doing great". The players need some honest feedback, and he is telling them so. This is not a time for straight positivity, it is a time for realism with positivity mixed in to keep the players spirits up. Isn't that exactly what kill is doing?
 


dpodoll68 said:
In-state OL recruits, 2008:

Joe Schafer - 6 BCS offers, including MN; signed with WI, washed out of football within 2 years

Roszell Gayden - Committed to MN, academically ineligible, played at Auburn after going JuCo, now attending Winona St. and not playing football

Tim Sauer - Signed with NIU, no I-A offers

Brewster should've signed 1-2 OL in the 2008 class, but some alleged in-state indifference had nothing to do with it.
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Actually, Sauer is at FCS UNI (Northern Iowa) and not FBS NIU (Northern Illinois), but your point is well taken.
 

For everyone that thinks Kill is throwing players "under the bus," please answer this.

What do you want him to say? He's at a press conference and just got beat 58-0. A reporter asks, "Coach, what happened out there?" Do you want him to say that we're close, we just have to tweak a few things in practice? He's giving his honest assessment of where the team is at. If players can't handle that, they should be at Hamline, not in the B1G.
 

There are two sides to every story.

Personally I find no value what so ever in constantly, publicly stating that the players have no talent. In fact I would argue if it is true, it is down right mean to state it...over and over. If they suck yesterday they will suck tomorrow, there is nothing they can do about it if they are talentless (lol).

I'm as old school as anybody but, this has nothing to do with motivation or being honest. It's the opposite, these public tirades serve only one purpose. To reassign and deflect blame. I don't know that he needs to do this (deflect). This is not his team (he let's us know that everytime he mentions NI). Coach Kill was left an inexperienced team (especially the lines). Some of these guys WILL garner all conference mentioning at some point (go ahead and laugh I believe it will be true), but right now they are god awful. It's not their fault, it's to be expected. That's why true freshman don't play at most successfull programs. Coach Kill and his staff will coach them up. They will learn and adapt to the culture he is creating here and the program will be better.

Coach will and should be given 4 years minimum; regardless of W's or L's. He should also not give a damn what folks think about this team losing to NMSU, NDSU and 0-58. It won't matter one bit when they are winning in 4 years. Right now he is embarrassed and responding badly, I believe...I know he will come to regret some of the responses/statements he has made.

As to the players; if they don't respond after getting called out on a weekly basis, it is apparent coach Kill is indeed 100% correct and they are a group of heartless/pride less individuals (my words not his). Asside from talking about their mothers what else can he say? They need to get a pair, have some damn pride! You might not win but at least let the other team know they were in a fight?

On a side note; I absolutley loved Tim Brewsters response. I'm not saying he was right or wrong but I know why he did it. While the current staff may not consider these "their guys.” Brewster still does.
 

victor04 said:
You call it negativity, I call it honest appraisal. There is a difference between the two. Anyways you cant always be like "nice job guy", "your doing great". The players need some honest feedback, and he is telling them so. This is not a time for straight positivity, it is a time for realism with positivity mixed in to keep the players spirits up. Isn't that exactly what kill is doing?
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Just because humanity has used humiliation to advance individual gain doesn't mean that humiliation is a useful tool when better tools are available.
I don't believe in propping up someone emotionally. If they do need propping up, maybe they need a mental health exam instead. There is a major difference in the long term gain of a person declaring someone to be at fault for a systemic problem out of their control and coaching them on means to compensate for their lack of ability in speed, or endurance, or whatever quality that put them at a disadvantage. It is best to have that conversation before the game.

"It is most likely, Mr. Rallis, that you will be slower than Mr. All World Sprinter. To allow you a chance to make the play, we propose doing this...."
If Mr. Rallis gets beat on a play where the compensation strategy failed to work, is it the players fault? No. It was the failure of the plan to compensate. At that point, going all world negative on the player does absolutely nothing for you or the player. It is a tantrum. It might get some adrenalin going, but the cost of that rush is a fairly big crash emotionally as it wears off. The consequences will probably end in an infraction as primitive instincts click on and override the mind. So, let's say the coach rips a new orifice on a player. The player gets a big adrenalin rush. By the time he runs onto the field, the rush is already diminishing and the mind is still trying to return to normal operations until the play is run. The flag is tossed. The player is called back to the bench, and the coach starts screaming at him again for failing to think. Repeat the vicious cycle and eventually a good player ends up on the bench because the coach destroyed him. Both the coach and the player are frustrated because they don't understand what happened.

I don't like blowing sunshine up some guys ass. I believe in training people in how to succeed and recognizing that failure comes with the territory. We need to teach the player that another play is coming and we will adjust the plan to suit the situation and move on. It is great to be gifted, but it is better to be gifted and smart about how we treat people. The history of football is full of gifted athletes getting lost in the crazy "manliness" thing and never playing well because of it. Smart football players keep their emotions checked at the door. They play to their strengths. They plan to exploit their opponents weakness. And, they stay away from finger pointing and instead show leadership by coaching positively what must be done. No sunshine. Just pure, rational thought.

Jerry Rice, mid range speed, all world work ethic to prepare for games. Payoff, best receiver in the history of the game. After a few years, coaches stopped talking to him. The reason they stopped talking is that they had nothing to say to improve his game. Jerry caught most of his TDs in the 4th quarter. If the coaches started to yell at him in the first quarter that he didn't make the plays, well, that would be short sighted and detrimental to Jerry. All of our guys have mid level speed. We are not slow and we are not fast. We can be successful if the right plan is made and the right adjustments made during the game. You can not possibly begin to be successful by tossing players under the bus, ever.
 



Sportsfan24 said:
There are two sides to every story.

Personally I find no value what so ever in constantly, publicly stating that the players have no talent. In fact I would argue if it is true, it is down right mean to state it...over and over. If they suck yesterday they will suck tomorrow, there is nothing they can do about it if they are talentless (lol).

I'm as old school as anybody but, this has nothing to do with motivation or being honest. It's the opposite, these public tirades serve only one purpose. To reassign and deflect blame. I don't know that he needs to do this (deflect). This is not his team (he let's us know that everytime he mentions NI). Coach Kill was left an inexperienced team (especially the lines). Some of these guys WILL garner all conference mentioning at some point (go ahead and laugh I believe it will be true), but right now they are god awful. It's not their fault, it's to be expected. That's why true freshman don't play at most successfull programs. Coach Kill and his staff will coach them up. They will learn and adapt to the culture he is creating here and the program will be better.

Coach will and should be given 4 years minimum; regardless of W's or L's. He should also not give a damn what folks think about this team losing to NMSU, NDSU and 0-58. It won't matter one bit when they are winning in 4 years. Right now he is embarrassed and responding badly, I believe...I know he will come to regret some of the responses/statements he has made.

As to the players; if they don't respond after getting called out on a weekly basis, it is apparent coach Kill is indeed 100% correct and they are a group of heartless/pride less individuals (my words not his). Asside from talking about their mothers what else can he say? They need to get a pair, have some damn pride! You might not win but at least let the other team know they were in a fight?

On a side note; I absolutley loved Tim Brewsters response. I'm not saying he was right or wrong but I know why he did it. While the current staff may not consider these "their guys.” Brewster still does.
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+1

You stated what I have been trying to communicate in a much more concise manner
 

Some conclusions I think any reasonable person should reach, including Gopher players

- When a team gets beat by 58 points they have a talent problem with the starters
- When a team gets beat by 58 points they are thin - if not they'd have successfully subbed for the players who were overwhelmed
- A new coach is under no obligation to fulfill the promises of the last coach, nor is he likely to apologize for their shortcomings because he didn't recruit them
- A new coach is going to play younger guys over older guys all other things being equal
- A new coach is going to play his own recruits ahead of someone else's recruits all other thing being equal

Given the above, I'm not that surprised at what has transpired. I'll note that to their credit I actually haven't heard any complaints from the Gophers upperclassmen or former players yet either. It is mostly from select members of the press and the message boards. I'm not sure why we're making such a big deal out of this.

Besides, if the upperclassmen didn't want this all they needed to do was beat N. Illinois, South Dakota, and Northwestern last year, but like I said, I haven't heard them complaining.
 


badgergopher said:
Some conclusions I think any reasonable person should reach, including Gopher players

Given the above, I'm not that surprised at what has transpired. I'll note that to their credit I actually haven't heard any complaints from the Gophers upperclassmen or former players yet either. It is mostly from select members of the press and the message boards. I'm not sure why we're making such a big deal out of this.

Besides, if the upperclassmen didn't want this all they needed to do was beat N. Illinois, South Dakota, and Northwestern last year, but like I said, I haven't heard them complaining.
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You hit the nail on the head. I noted in another post, do some of our fans REALLY think Kill is sending the same message to them each and every day in practice, every week for the last two months that he does in giving little blurbs to the media? Do you really think the players are that stupid?

This is a non-issue, likely perpetuated by the folks that don't like Kill and/or are of the genre who think everybody that participates should get a trophy.
 



In the University of Minnesota athletic department, no one is ever thrown under the bus.
 

After watching brewball for the better and (all too frequently) for the worst part of four seasons, I hope to NEVER hear his name mentioned again. He wasn't credible when he was here and now that he is no longer here, it is incredible that anyone would pay any attenion to anything he may ever have to say.
 


@oneoldgopher

I can see where you are coming from, but the Jerry Rice comparison is hard to jump on board with. When you do everything right of course no one is going to say anything, the gophers are not doing everything right, last time I checked anyways. This is a critical juncture in Kills short gopher career. He is changing the players attitudes and seeing who will answer to his challenge. Like it or not, college football is a ego driven game, much bravado. Thats why these guys play the game, they like the larger than life feel in addition to the competitiveness of the game.

And anyways, like a poster said a few before me, he is just talking to the media in the end, he is obligated to do it, but not obligated to tell us the truth. In the end he isn't telling us what he really thinks, more just what he wants us to hear, and I am fine with that.
 

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