Both Gach

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TheBarnyard said:
Both Gach is not an NBA player and never will be. I’m just hoping he improves as a college player. To me it looks like he doesn’t truly love the game. He’s just going through the motions.

NBA teams are much more likely to give Robbins a shot than they are Carr. Carr, at most could be a backup point guard. I’m curious, does the board think he is better than Tyus Jones was? I sure as heck don’t. He plays in the NBA because he’s a true facilitator. Teams looking for pure scorers are not looking at 6’1 guys.
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You did not just say Tyus Jones was better in college than Marcus Carr. Are you blind? Carr hits several shots A NIGHT that Tyus has never attempted in his life. The only reason Tyus got drafted as high as he did was because they won a natty and he attended Duke.
 

Parcival said:
You did not just say Tyus Jones was better in college than Marcus Carr. Are you blind? Carr hits several shots A NIGHT that Tyus has never attempted in his life. The only reason Tyus got drafted as high as he did was because they won a natty and he attended Duke.
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Tyus was a smarter player, more physical, better defender and more of a facilitator. But as a scorer, Carr is much more efficient and he is someone you HAVE to stop in order to beat the Gophers. Tyus was not ever that type of player in college.

Carr will also be drafted. Look at guys like the kid from Purdue a few years back. He to me, profiles as a very very similar player to Carr and he was an early 2nd round pick.
 

Parcival said:
You did not just say Tyus Jones was better in college than Marcus Carr. Are you blind? Carr hits several shots A NIGHT that Tyus has never attempted in his life. The only reason Tyus got drafted as high as he did was because they won a natty and he attended Duke.
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Not worth engaging in a conversation with you. We have widely different opinions obviously. I look at the player as a whole. Apparently you only look at the shots they are capable of making...
 

Go Gophs said:
Tyus was a smarter player, more physical, better defender and more of a facilitator. But as a scorer, Carr is much more efficient and he is someone you HAVE to stop in order to beat the Gophers. Tyus was not ever that type of player in college.

Carr will also be drafted. Look at guys like the kid from Purdue a few years back. He to me, profiles as a very very similar player to Carr and he was an early 2nd round pick.
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Thank you for helping to clarify. I agree with you 100 percent. I have never said Carr won’t get drafted. I just don’t think he is an NBA player. This means I don’t see longevity in his time in the NBA.

Tyus will always positively contribute to any team because he can do many different things. Carr is only a scorer and sometimes a rather selfish scorer at that.
 

I think Gach and Johnson are both 50/50 to come back next year. I'm not sure what the status of over-seas leagues are, but I'm guessing there's not a ton of $ to be made at the moment and neither of them will make an NBA roster and maybe not even a G-league roster IMO.
 


TheBarnyard said:
Not worth engaging in a conversation with you. We have widely different opinions obviously. I look at the player as a whole. Apparently you only look at the shots they are capable of making...
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I also look at the player as a whole. And Carr is a much better player than Tyus was in college. It's not close either - for you to suggest that Tyus is better than Carr makes me think you either went to Duke or know nothing about basketball.
 

Parcival said:
I also look at the player as a whole. And Carr is a much better player than Tyus was in college. It's not close either - for you to suggest that Tyus is better than Carr makes me think you either went to Duke or know nothing about basketball.
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I agree Carr is a better college player than Tyus. You have to factor in that Tyus played on a 2014-2015 Duke team with SIX players who ended up seeing NBA minutes; it illustrates the completely different position these two were in. Tyus was allowed to be a facilitator, while Carr is the focal point of the opposing defense pretty much every night. Carr played with one player (Oturu) last season who made the NBA. From this year's roster, *maybe* it ends up being another 1 or 2.
 

Parcival said:
I also look at the player as a whole. And Carr is a much better player than Tyus was in college. It's not close either - for you to suggest that Tyus is better than Carr makes me think you either went to Duke or know nothing about basketball.
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I strongly disagree with you. Also you have to remember Tyus only played one year as a freshman. Marcus Carr is 21 years old. Do you want to make a bet on who will have the longer NBA career? Name your amount.
 

TheBarnyard said:
I strongly disagree with you. Also you have to remember Tyus only played one year as a freshman. Marcus Carr is 21 years old. Do you want to make a bet on who will have the longer NBA career? Name your amount.
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We are talking about who is a better college player, aren't we?
 



WriterGoph said:
I agree Carr is a better college player than Tyus. You have to factor in that Tyus played on a 2014-2015 Duke team with SIX players who ended up seeing NBA minutes; it illustrates the completely different position these two were in. Tyus was allowed to be a facilitator, while Carr is the focal point of the opposing defense pretty much every night. Carr played with one player (Oturu) last season who made the NBA. From this year's roster, *maybe* it ends up being another 1 or 2.
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You make good points. It is different playing with other NBA players. Maybe I am phrasing it wrong, I just like Tyus’s game more and I think it translates better to the NBA.

thanks for giving me logical counterpoints and not just saying “you know nothing about basketball”.

I have blocked Parcival.
 


TheBarnyard said:
You make good points. It is different playing with other NBA players. Maybe I am phrasing it wrong, I just like Tyus’s game more and I think it translates better to the NBA.

thanks for giving me logical counterpoints and not just saying “you know nothing about basketball”.

I have blocked Parcival.
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I'd agree that it's probably 85-90% chance that Tyus has a longer NBA career than Carr. He definitely - at this point - does the other things better that they'd want out of a 3rd string PG. Now, I think if someone is looking for a scoring PG off the bench, Carr could be a really good fit.
 

WriterGoph said:
I'd agree that it's probably 85-90% chance that Tyus has a longer NBA career than Carr. He definitely - at this point - does the other things better that they'd want out of a 3rd string PG. Now, I think if someone is looking for a scoring PG off the bench, Carr could be a really good fit.
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I agree with you 100 percent and you guys are right Carr is probably the better college player. You brought up good points and reeled me in as I was getting ahead of myself. I just didn’t appreciate Parcival being so aggressive about it. I think there was a little confusion on where the conversation was going.

Also, Carr shows some flashes of being a very selfish player and those kind of players really turn me off. Sometimes he starts hunting his shots.
 



TheBarnyard said:
I agree with you 100 percent and you guys are right Carr is probably the better college player. You brought up good points and reeled me in as I was getting ahead of myself. I just didn’t appreciate Parcival being so aggressive about it. I think there was a little confusion on where the conversation was going.

Also, Carr shows some flashes of being a very selfish player and those kind of players really turn me off. Sometimes he starts hunting his shots.
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Carr frustrates me for 5 game minutes to the point I say he sucks...He plays sloppy D, doesn't box out, misses 3 forced shots and has a turnover. Then the next 5 minutes he has a steal, 10 points, 3 rebounds, and 3 assists. Then I say he's the best gopher I have seen in 10 years.

Evaluating him just makes my head hurt.
 

tmvander said:
Carr frustrates me for 5 game minutes to the point I say he sucks...He plays sloppy D, doesn't box out, misses 3 forced shots and has a turnover. Then the next 5 minutes he has a steal, 10 points, 3 rebounds, and 3 assists. Then I say he's the best gopher I have seen in 10 years.

Evaluating him just makes my head hurt.
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I feel the same way. I start getting really mad and frustrated watching him force shots and his guy get in the lane at will. I start thinking he’s selfish and then he bangs in two 22 footers in a row and I go quiet. I just wish he let the game come to him more often on the offensive end and gave more consistent effort on the defensive end.
 

tmvander said:
Carr frustrates me for 5 game minutes to the point I say he sucks...He plays sloppy D, doesn't box out, misses 3 forced shots and has a turnover. Then the next 5 minutes he has a steal, 10 points, 3 rebounds, and 3 assists. Then I say he's the best gopher I have seen in 10 years.

Evaluating him just makes my head hurt.
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Just wait till Pitino's mind fuck starts to work and he turns into the second 5 minutes player all the time!

That will most likely coincide with Gabe rediscovering his shot, last seen against Louisville in the NCAAs!
 

Dakota2 said:
Rodney and Both don't belong in the same sentence. Gach has been a disappointment but so have Trey and Ihnen. All pretty much for the same reason. So far none has shown much ability to shoot.
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Both has been very similar production wise to Rodney so far.

Their games are not that similar as Both is more of a finesse player and Rodney relied more on pure athleticism but so far at this point in their careers, they are very similar in terms of what they’ve accomplished the the caliber of player they are/were.

Both reminds me more of a less polished, less skilled Rashad Vaugn in terms of style of play.
 

die hard gopher said:
Both has been very similar production wise to Rodney so far.

Their games are not that similar as Both is more of a finesse player and Rodney relied more on pure athleticism but so far at this point in their careers, they are very similar in terms of what they’ve accomplished the the caliber of player they are/were.

Both reminds me more of a less polished, less skilled Rashad Vaugn in terms of style of play.
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Speaking of Rashad Vaughn...blast from the past. Hadn't thought of him in awhile. Surprised to see it appears he is already out of professional basketball. Looks like his NBA career lasted parts of 2-3 seasons and then he ended up in the Ukrainian League, but only made it 6 games.
 

I do think that Both is an underrated passer, one of the few guys who is willing to make the quick easy pass and keep the ball moving on rotations. Still have a lot id want to see out of him, but that part of his game Ive liked so far.
 

There are some people in here that are VERY defensive of Gophers players and I have to think have not seen a lot of NBA basketball or how it works. I had this same argument with people last year who said Oturu was going to be a lottery pick and just a great NBA player and i said meh 2nd rounder and bench guy. People take that as a knock, it certainly is not, its TOUGH to get to the NBA. Oturu was a friggen stud here, doesnt mean anything for being an nba player.

In terms of Tyus vs Marcus, boy how you can say Marcus is way better I am just shocked by. Lets compare apples to apples. Tyus and Marcus both played in the ACC as starting freshman PG's. Tyus averaged more points, rebounds, assists, steals, shot better (neither shot great) and less TO's. Not to mention their win shares are not even remotely close. Now, Tyus absolutely benefited from having Okafor/Winslow/Etc around him, but he also was the MOP of the final four and was their most important player. As mentioned above, CARR IS AWESOME, hes great for us. But you honestly think if we took took Tyus at 21 and put him on this team we would be worse? Thats a bad take if you think that, not only would he be far more efficient but he is an absolute monster on defense and just a better floor general.

In terms of the NBA, Tyus was always destined to be the 3rd guard on a team. He doesnt have the size, athletic ability, or shot to be a 30+ min guy posting huge numbers. He is perfect in Memphis as Ja's backup and a good starter for short stretches. For Carr, I honestly think it is a stretch that he gets drafted. The 34.4% 3pt percentage is where NBA teams need him to improve. The Carsen Edwards comparison is fair, but I think he got a NCAA bump from going off that year. Could Carr do that, absolutely, i just dont know if i see that.

To recap, this is not a hate post on marcus, the dude is perfect for our team, hes awesome in college. That does not mean a lot in the NBA. Patrick Williams didnt start at FSU and put up 9 ppg in 22 minutes, he went 4th overall because he has potential. When teams get into pick 40-50, is Marcus "better" than those guys, sure but NBA teams see a 6'1 PG who isnt an elite shooter and is 21 vs an 18 yr old from Spain who is 6'9 and shot 38% and they take him instead. Ultimately i see carr a lot like Nate Mason, a guy who is a good G league player and bounces back and forth from the G league to the nba. He will have a career playing pro bball either in the G leauge/nba bench or in Europe. But it feels like some people in here think he is Allen Iverson!
 

leib0039 said:
There are some people in here that are VERY defensive of Gophers players and I have to think have not seen a lot of NBA basketball or how it works. I had this same argument with people last year who said Oturu was going to be a lottery pick and just a great NBA player and i said meh 2nd rounder and bench guy. People take that as a knock, it certainly is not, its TOUGH to get to the NBA. Oturu was a friggen stud here, doesnt mean anything for being an nba player.

In terms of Tyus vs Marcus, boy how you can say Marcus is way better I am just shocked by. Lets compare apples to apples. Tyus and Marcus both played in the ACC as starting freshman PG's. Tyus averaged more points, rebounds, assists, steals, shot better (neither shot great) and less TO's. Not to mention their win shares are not even remotely close. Now, Tyus absolutely benefited from having Okafor/Winslow/Etc around him, but he also was the MOP of the final four and was their most important player. As mentioned above, CARR IS AWESOME, hes great for us. But you honestly think if we took took Tyus at 21 and put him on this team we would be worse? Thats a bad take if you think that, not only would he be far more efficient but he is an absolute monster on defense and just a better floor general.

In terms of the NBA, Tyus was always destined to be the 3rd guard on a team. He doesnt have the size, athletic ability, or shot to be a 30+ min guy posting huge numbers. He is perfect in Memphis as Ja's backup and a good starter for short stretches. For Carr, I honestly think it is a stretch that he gets drafted. The 34.4% 3pt percentage is where NBA teams need him to improve. The Carsen Edwards comparison is fair, but I think he got a NCAA bump from going off that year. Could Carr do that, absolutely, i just dont know if i see that.

To recap, this is not a hate post on marcus, the dude is perfect for our team, hes awesome in college. That does not mean a lot in the NBA. Patrick Williams didnt start at FSU and put up 9 ppg in 22 minutes, he went 4th overall because he has potential. When teams get into pick 40-50, is Marcus "better" than those guys, sure but NBA teams see a 6'1 PG who isnt an elite shooter and is 21 vs an 18 yr old from Spain who is 6'9 and shot 38% and they take him instead. Ultimately i see carr a lot like Nate Mason, a guy who is a good G league player and bounces back and forth from the G league to the nba. He will have a career playing pro bball either in the G leauge/nba bench or in Europe. But it feels like some people in here think he is Allen Iverson!
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Thank you, spot on
 

leib0039 said:
There are some people in here that are VERY defensive of Gophers players and I have to think have not seen a lot of NBA basketball or how it works. I had this same argument with people last year who said Oturu was going to be a lottery pick and just a great NBA player and i said meh 2nd rounder and bench guy. People take that as a knock, it certainly is not, its TOUGH to get to the NBA. Oturu was a friggen stud here, doesnt mean anything for being an nba player.

In terms of Tyus vs Marcus, boy how you can say Marcus is way better I am just shocked by. Lets compare apples to apples. Tyus and Marcus both played in the ACC as starting freshman PG's. Tyus averaged more points, rebounds, assists, steals, shot better (neither shot great) and less TO's. Not to mention their win shares are not even remotely close. Now, Tyus absolutely benefited from having Okafor/Winslow/Etc around him, but he also was the MOP of the final four and was their most important player. As mentioned above, CARR IS AWESOME, hes great for us. But you honestly think if we took took Tyus at 21 and put him on this team we would be worse? Thats a bad take if you think that, not only would he be far more efficient but he is an absolute monster on defense and just a better floor general.

In terms of the NBA, Tyus was always destined to be the 3rd guard on a team. He doesnt have the size, athletic ability, or shot to be a 30+ min guy posting huge numbers. He is perfect in Memphis as Ja's backup and a good starter for short stretches. For Carr, I honestly think it is a stretch that he gets drafted. The 34.4% 3pt percentage is where NBA teams need him to improve. The Carsen Edwards comparison is fair, but I think he got a NCAA bump from going off that year. Could Carr do that, absolutely, i just dont know if i see that.

To recap, this is not a hate post on marcus, the dude is perfect for our team, hes awesome in college. That does not mean a lot in the NBA. Patrick Williams didnt start at FSU and put up 9 ppg in 22 minutes, he went 4th overall because he has potential. When teams get into pick 40-50, is Marcus "better" than those guys, sure but NBA teams see a 6'1 PG who isnt an elite shooter and is 21 vs an 18 yr old from Spain who is 6'9 and shot 38% and they take him instead. Ultimately i see carr a lot like Nate Mason, a guy who is a good G league player and bounces back and forth from the G league to the nba. He will have a career playing pro bball either in the G leauge/nba bench or in Europe. But it feels like some people in here think he is Allen Iverson!
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All of this. I couldn’t agree more with all of it. You did a better job summarizing what I was trying to get at.
 

Both Gach has NBA level talent no doubt, but the skills are lacking. For his frame + natural ability he should get to the rim more.
 

kix4kix said:
Both Gach has NBA level talent no doubt, but the skills are lacking. For his frame + natural ability he should get to the rim more.
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At his size you need masterful skill level. Below average shot, below handle and not close to outstanding defender. He should be a incredible defender.
 

Go Gophs said:
Tyus was a smarter player, more physical, better defender and more of a facilitator. But as a scorer, Carr is much more efficient and he is someone you HAVE to stop in order to beat the Gophers. Tyus was not ever that type of player in college.

Carr will also be drafted. Look at guys like the kid from Purdue a few years back. He to me, profiles as a very very similar player to Carr and he was an early 2nd round pick.
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Carsen Edwards? There are similarities but I'd probably pick Carsen Edwards. Does Carr's game transfer to the NBA? Carr is projected to make less than half the threes Edwards did his last year at Purdue.
I do Totally agree if you play the Gophers you have to stop Carr!
 


You can't compare Carr to Carson Edwards.

Carr is a PG. Edwards is a SG.

Any coach would take Edwards 10 out of 10 times because the guy could shoot. Pair Edwards with any competent PG and you more than make up for any lost offensive production from Carr. They aren't comparable.

Carr and Edwards in the same backcourt, now that would be something! Especially the way Carr has been playing lately, not forcing, looking for others.
 


Otis said:
You can't compare Carr to Carson Edwards.

Carr is a PG. Edwards is a SG.

Any coach would take Edwards 10 out of 10 times because the guy could shoot. Pair Edwards with any competent PG and you more than make up for any lost offensive production from Carr. They aren't comparable.

Carr and Edwards in the same backcourt, now that would be something! Especially the way Carr has been playing lately, not forcing, looking for others.
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I could have swore carsen edwards was purdue's pg in his time there.
 

I can't fathom that Gach and NBA are mentioned in the same sentence because he doesn't even look like a Division 1 caliber player. I'm guessing if he were 6'3 instead of 6'6 he wouldn't even be playing college basketball.
 

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