Bob Stein says Kill rescued and righted a football program riddled with incompetence

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dpodoll68 said:
It's opinion-based, of course, but I think most would agree that 1983 was far worse than 2007, and 2010 doesn't even belong in the conversation.
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1983 - Gophers scored 181 points and gave-up 518. The season without hope....
 

maxwellsmart said:
It's right there for all to see. Improved fundamentals. Increased discipline. Better speed. Coaching staff stability. True leadership. Get over the won-lost dog and pony show and take a look.
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If you are of the belief that even if Kill goes 2-6 in conference this season and 2-6 next conference season his job is safe you are being naive.
 

Iceland12 said:
1983 - Gophers scored 181 points and gave-up 518. The season without hope....
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Gave up 50+ in 6 of 11 games that year.
Scored under 20 points 7 times.
Lost by 39 or more 6 times.

2007 by comparison:
Never gave up 50+ points in 12 games.
Scored under 20 points 4 times.
Worst loss was by 27.
7 of the losses were by a TD or less.
 

scools12 said:
If you are of the belief that even if Kill goes 2-6 in conference this season and 2-6 next conference season his job is safe you are being naive.
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He never said that. He is saying, to this point, you have to look at other things besides wins and losses. Turning around a program does take time. Most everyone would agree that if we go 2-6 the next two years, he should be on the hot seat.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Gave up 50+ in 6 of 11 games that year.
Scored under 20 points 7 times.
Lost by 39 or more 6 times.

2007 by comparison:
Never gave up 50+ points in 12 games.
Scored under 20 points 4 times.
Worst loss was by 27.
7 of the losses were by a TD or less.
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I think its also important to remember that we only had two out of conference games in 1983, and one of them was 12-1, #2 in AP poll Nebraska (the other was the season's lone win against hapless Rice). So all of the 1983 losses were either to B1G competition or the second best team in the country.

In 2007, our one win was against a weak out of conference opponent, and we also had losses to Bowling Green, Florida Atlantic, and North Dakota State (which accounted for 3 of the 7 losses by a TD or less). The 1983 team did not have opportunities to pick up a second win against the likes of NDSU and Florida Atlatnic like 2007 did.

I am not saying that the 1983 team was better, obviously all of the stats given about margin of victory are signficant. I just think there is a little more nuance to the comparison.
 


Iceland12 said:
1983 - Gophers scored 181 points and gave-up 518. The season without hope....
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It's like watching a car crash in slow motion...

Sat, Sep 10 Rice - at Dallas, Texas 21 - 17 (W)
Sat, Sep 17 Nebraska 1 at Lincoln, Neb. 13 - 84 (L)
Sat, Sep 24 Purdue - Metrodome 20 - 32 (L)
Sat, Oct 01 Ohio State 8 at Columbus, Ohio 18 - 69 (L)
Sat, Oct 08 Indiana - at Bloomington, Ind. 31 - 38 (L)
Sat, Oct 15 Wisconsin - Metrodome 17 - 56 (L)
Sat, Oct 22 Northwestern - at Evanston, Ill. 8 - 19 (L)
Sat, Oct 29 Michigan State - at East Lansing, Mich. 10 - 34 (L)
Sat, Nov 05 Illinois 6 Metrodome 23 - 50 (L)
Sat, Nov 12 Michigan 9 Metrodome 10 - 58 (L)
Sat, Nov 19 Iowa 11 at Iowa City, Iowa 10 - 61 (L)
 

GophersInIowa said:
He never said that. He is saying, to this point, you have to look at other things besides wins and losses. Turning around a program does take time. Most everyone would agree that if we go 2-6 the next two years, he should be on the hot seat.
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If there are two more 2-6 seasons, I think he should be off the seat. I don't think that will happen though, watching how bad the likes of MSU (55 points against Youngstown notwithstanding), Iowa, and Indiana have looked, I have to feel like we can take 2 of those 3 and find an upset somewhere else.
 

MNVCGUY said:
People think I hate Kill because I am critical of him. I don't hate the guy, I am just not as sold on him as many of the posters in here seem to be. There is no doubt Kill is a better head football coach than Brewster but to date his on the field results have not been even to the level of Brewsters and in regards to talent Kill inherited far more talent than Brew did when he took over.
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I don't think you hate Kill. I just think you're "that kind of fan". I choose not to be that kind of fan. I believe in Kill for two very important reasons:

1) He's done it before, multiple times AND, perhaps more importantly, he's done it with the same staff. I think continuity of staff is massively underrated.

2) I CHOOSE to believe that this season will be better than last, and that next season will be better than this season. I choose to be "that kind of fan", rather than your kind of fan. I couldn't imagine going through the season, going through the year with the mentality that the future is hopeless, things aren't getting better, etc. I would rather believe things are improving and be incorrect than to think things constantly suck, and be proven right sometimes. How dreadful that must be....

I'll tell you one thing, I absolutely unequivocally have to give you an "A" for effort. I can't recall anyone that I've seen try SO hard and pick their words SO carefully to convey a message of total negativity and while trying not to sound like a troll or just be blatantly negative. You work tremendously hard, there's no doubt about it.
 

By the strength of their defense...

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
If there are two more 2-6 seasons, I think he should be off the seat. I don't think that will happen though, watching how bad the likes of MSU (55 points against Youngstown notwithstanding), Iowa, and Indiana have looked, I have to feel like we can take 2 of those 3 and find an upset somewhere else.
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I fear you greatly underestimate MSU. They will win quite a few games with their defense/toughness before this 2013 season has been completed. I hope I am wrong, but, I think Sparty will have a pretty fair Conference record. Their defense will help their offense out in SO many ways in 2013....field position...take aways...defenses can help score a LOT of points. In fact, it looks to me as though they should pretty much be "in" every game they have left. Their next game, Notre Dame should tell just how well their defense can keep them "in" games. I suppose, Notre Dame should be favored... Maybe I will be proven completely wrong, but, I think they will be a handful for the Irish at South bend. And then, look for them to go 4-0 to start the Conference run. They are at iowa, host Indiana and Purdue and are at Illinois. They then host Michigan, have a bye and travel to Lincoln. I'd favor Michigan, call Nebraska a slight favorite. Their game in Evanston against Northwestern should be very interesting. They close the Conference season out entertaining our Gophers in East Lansing.

I could easily see MSU going 5-3 in the conference or maybe even 6-2. That defense is the BEST defense in the Conference...I fear. MSU will be a real challenge for every team remaining on their schedule. I really do hope I am way off base and wrong. But, when Sparty plays defense...it is like men against boys, I fear. I really wouldn't feel too over-confident against MSU...
 



Someone mentioned Mason and Stein's "10-year" reference would seem to indict him as well.

Brewster failed. He tried, but the bottom line spoke for itself. But we haven't been consistently good as a program since the early-1960s so there's been a lot of bumbling over there. Brewster was simply the Popeye Moment where "it's all we can stand and can't stand no more." Granted, we had some good teams in the 1960s and 1970s that would have been bowl-bound in the current bowl-eligible environment, but the program has been a mess.

I'm not totally sold on Kill, but things have looked better in a number of ways than they have since Gutekunst was here (without the plethora of bone-headed penalties). We'll just have to see how things turn out.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
I don't think you hate Kill. I just think you're "that kind of fan". I choose not to be that kind of fan. I believe in Kill for two very important reasons:

1) He's done it before, multiple times AND, perhaps more importantly, he's done it with the same staff. I think continuity of staff is massively underrated.

2) I CHOOSE to believe that this season will be better than last, and that next season will be better than this season. I choose to be "that kind of fan", rather than your kind of fan. I couldn't imagine going through the season, going through the year with the mentality that the future is hopeless, things aren't getting better, etc. I would rather believe things are improving and be incorrect than to think things constantly suck, and be proven right sometimes. How dreadful that must be....

I'll tell you one thing, I absolutely unequivocally have to give you an "A" for effort. I can't recall anyone that I've seen try SO hard and pick their words SO carefully to convey a message of total negativity and while trying not to sound like a troll or just be blatantly negative. You work tremendously hard, there's no doubt about it.
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Nicely said, Ogee
 





highwayman said:
It's like watching a car crash in slow motion...

Sat, Sep 10 Rice - at Dallas, Texas 21 - 17 (W)
Sat, Sep 17 Nebraska 1 at Lincoln, Neb. 13 - 84 (L)
Sat, Sep 24 Purdue - Metrodome 20 - 32 (L)
Sat, Oct 01 Ohio State 8 at Columbus, Ohio 18 - 69 (L)
Sat, Oct 08 Indiana - at Bloomington, Ind. 31 - 38 (L)
Sat, Oct 15 Wisconsin - Metrodome 17 - 56 (L)
Sat, Oct 22 Northwestern - at Evanston, Ill. 8 - 19 (L)
Sat, Oct 29 Michigan State - at East Lansing, Mich. 10 - 34 (L)
Sat, Nov 05 Illinois 6 Metrodome 23 - 50 (L)
Sat, Nov 12 Michigan 9 Metrodome 10 - 58 (L)
Sat, Nov 19 Iowa 11 at Iowa City, Iowa 10 - 61 (L)
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Pretty sure, even though I've tried to forget, that game was here in the Metrodome.
 

I have a big-time weakness - I love to watch "Love it or List it" on HGTV. For those who have never seen the show homeowners give a designer/builder money to remodel their homes, and at the end they have to choose between staying in the updated digs or buying a new home.

Anyway, this discussion reminds me of that show. What always happens is the designers/builders find there is a bad foundation on the home, there's asbestos all over or the roof is shot, and the cost of those fixes takes away from the new jetted tubs and modern kitchens on the original wish list.

The homeowners are ALWAYS indignant - they feel they didn't get what they paid for. They act as if a solid foundation and asbestos removal are bad things. And some of you are acting just like that.

Kill made it clear on the day he was introduced he was not a quick-fix artist. He has done a fantastic job of shoring up the foundation of the program and putting together a roster capable of competing in the Big Ten. His next step will be to find the players who will take us to the next level and give us the wins and championships we all desire.

Years 4-5 of his tenure are when we should be looking for the good stuff. Patience is required.
 

50PoundHead said:
Someone mentioned Mason and Stein's "10-year" reference would seem to indict him as well.



Hmmmmm. Stein also was very critical of the LEADERSHIP which would, of course, the prexys AND the AD's. macturi came on board in 2002...just a bit under ten years from Kill's hire date. macturi failed horribly in providing support for the football program from day one of his tenure. In 2002, Coach Mason was a year away from having the FIRST Ten Game Win Season achieved by a football coach at the University of Minnesota in a VERY long time dung the 2003 season. Certainly Stein wouldn't be lumping that 2003 season in with ANYTHING macturi and Brewster came up with.

It remains to be seen whether Coach Kill will ever achieve a 10 win season here at the University of Minnesota. I CERTAINLY do hope he can accomplish that. But, we do KNOW that macturi provided literally NO support for the football program at the time Coach Mason was there. That would have included that 2002 through 2006 time frame. Obviously, Coach Mason had put together the majority of the 2003 team that had 10 wins BEFORE macturi had totally failed to support the football program. Mason did that on his own, based mostly on the support Tom Moe had given the football program.( Certainly Stein could NOT have knocked the Mason/Tom Moe days of being the management and administration of Golden Gopher Football. Why, Mason turned out All-American Players and All-Big Ten Players. Even during the 2006 season Spaeth was winning all kinds of awards! That indicates GOOD coaching, management and savy and know-how on the part of the coaching staff.) The failed brewball game day Saturday experience included the 2007, 2008, 2009 and part of the 2010 season. Coach Kill coached his first game here during the 2011 season. The ten years previous to the Kill Era would have included the 2001 through the 2011 seasons. Actually, Mason had some success during some of those seasons. Mason did NOT get diddly squat support from macturi or prexy b between that 2002 and 2006 part of his tenure though, did he fiftypoundhead? They extended him ONLY because the NEEDED him to get the stadium.
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highwayman said:
It's like watching a car crash in slow motion...

Sat, Sep 10 Rice - at Dallas, Texas 21 - 17 (W)
Sat, Sep 17 Nebraska 1 at Lincoln, Neb. 13 - 84 (L)
Sat, Sep 24 Purdue - Metrodome 20 - 32 (L)
Sat, Oct 01 Ohio State 8 at Columbus, Ohio 18 - 69 (L)
Sat, Oct 08 Indiana - at Bloomington, Ind. 31 - 38 (L)
Sat, Oct 15 Wisconsin - Metrodome 17 - 56 (L)
Sat, Oct 22 Northwestern - at Evanston, Ill. 8 - 19 (L)
Sat, Oct 29 Michigan State - at East Lansing, Mich. 10 - 34 (L)
Sat, Nov 05 Illinois 6 Metrodome 23 - 50 (L)
Sat, Nov 12 Michigan 9 Metrodome 10 - 58 (L)
Sat, Nov 19 Iowa 11 at Iowa City, Iowa 10 - 61 (L)
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It has taken me 30 years to forget all of that. Thanks for nothing.
 

highwayman said:
It's like watching a car crash in slow motion...

Sat, Sep 10 Rice - at Dallas, Texas 21 - 17 (W)
Sat, Sep 17 Nebraska 1 at Lincoln, Neb. 13 - 84 (L)
Sat, Sep 24 Purdue - Metrodome 20 - 32 (L)
Sat, Oct 01 Ohio State 8 at Columbus, Ohio 18 - 69 (L)
Sat, Oct 08 Indiana - at Bloomington, Ind. 31 - 38 (L)
Sat, Oct 15 Wisconsin - Metrodome 17 - 56 (L)
Sat, Oct 22 Northwestern - at Evanston, Ill. 8 - 19 (L)
Sat, Oct 29 Michigan State - at East Lansing, Mich. 10 - 34 (L)
Sat, Nov 05 Illinois 6 Metrodome 23 - 50 (L)
Sat, Nov 12 Michigan 9 Metrodome 10 - 58 (L)
Sat, Nov 19 Iowa 11 at Iowa City, Iowa 10 - 61 (L)
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I think the opener was in Houston, not Dallas.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
 

JerryKillFan said:
I have a big-time weakness - I love to watch "Love it or List it" on HGTV. For those who have never seen the show homeowners give a designer/builder money to remodel their homes, and at the end they have to choose between staying in the updated digs or buying a new home.

Anyway, this discussion reminds me of that show. What always happens is the designers/builders find there is a bad foundation on the home, there's asbestos all over or the roof is shot, and the cost of those fixes takes away from the new jetted tubs and modern kitchens on the original wish list.

The homeowners are ALWAYS indignant - they feel they didn't get what they paid for. They act as if a solid foundation and asbestos removal are bad things. And some of you are acting just like that.

Kill made it clear on the day he was introduced he was not a quick-fix artist. He has done a fantastic job of shoring up the foundation of the program and putting together a roster capable of competing in the Big Ten. His next step will be to find the players who will take us to the next level and give us the wins and championships we all desire.

Years 4-5 of his tenure are when we should be looking for the good stuff. Patience is required.
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What you say is fair. Though I think we need to parse some of the skeptical comments that are being made. Some people are upset that we are not there yet, and I agree we need patience. But what some other people are saying (and how I feel) is that just because we have rebuilt the foundation and removed the asbestos does not mean that the house is going to automatically look good. They are necessary first steps, Kill has done a good job doing them, and I trust in Kill to build us a house we will be happy with and am thrilled to have him as a coach. I just think it is premature to start making claims that he has rescued the program. We've still got a long way to go. At the end of the day, my judgment on him will be on where we've gotten to, not on how good of a job he did fixing the foundation and the asbestos.
 


EG#9 said:
I don't even know where to begin. Tim Brewster was 3-5 in the B1G IN YEAR 2, he was 3-5 in the B1G IN YEAR 3. I am of the opinion that 3-5 is not acceptable BUT we've seen nothing better than 2-6 so far from Jerry Kill. I am so sick of hearing how Jerry Kill is doing these great things when the facts show recruiting has been at the very bottom of the B1G and the B1G performance has not been better than what we saw in Brewster's 4th and final year when the team went 2-6.

You can defend Jerry Kill's ability/right to coach the Gophers without giving credit for things that have not yet been accomplished.
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Tim Brewster did not go 2-6 in that 4th and final year if you recall. They were spiraling toward 0-8 before the firing and Jeff Horton salvaging a couple wins at the end at Illinois and home against Iowa. The program was in shambles football-wise and academically and our team had no identity on either side of the football. We have not done better than 2-6 in conference yet but you can see that we have a system on offense and defense, that we have coaches who are organized and whose names don't change every year, and that we have players who are staying eligible and progressing in school. The framework has been put in place for future success. Can it be built upon? I hope so and my prediction is yes, but at least we have a framework now.
 


bleedsmaroonandgold said:
I just think it is premature to start making claims that he has rescued the program. We've still got a long way to go. At the end of the day, my judgment on him will be on where we've gotten to, not on how good of a job he did fixing the foundation and the asbestos.
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I agree. There are few quick fixes in college football so I'm willing to be patient. This job is far from done.

If we get to years four and five of his tenure and the wins aren't forthcoming then he's fair game. I don't think that will be the case, though.
 

My bad, in 2012 Syracuse was in a 4 way tie for the Big East title (they had the worst record of those 4 teams, so they were better than I gave them credit for but let's not pretend they were elite (they finished 8-5)
 

edma0012 said:
My bad, in 2012 Syracuse was in a 4 way tie for the Big East title (they had the worst record of those 4 teams, so they were better than I gave them credit for but let's not pretend they were elite (they finished 8-5)
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Don't let facts get in the way of your argument, bud.
 

edma0012 said:
My bad, in 2012 Syracuse was in a 4 way tie for the Big East title (they had the worst record of those 4 teams, so they were better than I gave them credit for but let's not pretend they were elite (they finished 8-5)
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They played Northwestern, Minnesota, and USC in the nonconference. Against a bad slate of teams, they could have easily been 11-2. They absolutely destroyed Sugar Bowl champion Louisville.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
I don't think you hate Kill. I just think you're "that kind of fan". I choose not to be that kind of fan. I believe in Kill for two very important reasons:

1) He's done it before, multiple times AND, perhaps more importantly, he's done it with the same staff. I think continuity of staff is massively underrated.

2) I CHOOSE to believe that this season will be better than last, and that next season will be better than this season. I choose to be "that kind of fan", rather than your kind of fan. I couldn't imagine going through the season, going through the year with the mentality that the future is hopeless, things aren't getting better, etc. I would rather believe things are improving and be incorrect than to think things constantly suck, and be proven right sometimes. How dreadful that must be....

I'll tell you one thing, I absolutely unequivocally have to give you an "A" for effort. I can't recall anyone that I've seen try SO hard and pick their words SO carefully to convey a message of total negativity and while trying not to sound like a troll or just be blatantly negative. You work tremendously hard, there's no doubt about it.
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So anyone who is critical of the program is labeled "that kind of fan"?

to your point 1st - He and his staff should be given credit for what they have accomplishded at previous stops. They just haven't done it at this level as of yet. You can believe they will but what has happened previously has no relationship to what might happen at Minnesota. Somehow according to you rather seeing it happen than simply believing it will happen makes you "that kind of fan.

Having the continuity of staff is probably helpful when taking a job such as Minnesota's but it is to some extent overrated. From my understanding members of the staff have had other offers and have decided to remain with Kill. Why didn't they leave? Maybe they stayed out of loyality, maybe the job offers weren't that great or maybe they don't have any higher coaching aspirations. If this staff has success at Minnesota we will see if other job offers come or not which will show us how the staff is viewed by others.

to your 2nd point - nowhere in MNVCGUY's post did he say the future was hoepless. But again anything critical of Kill and his program is viewed by you as "that kind of fan" Obviously to you being critical is not allowed.
 

GopherSteak said:
I went fishing with my uncle's and grandpa yesterday and we were all upset that the press wanted Kill to step down. There are few coaches like him, and chances are most won't consider coming to the U. Don't let him go Norwood.
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You strike me as someone who is intelligent, insightful, and extremely wise.
 



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