Black Iowa players critical of strength coach

Donate To GopherHole

Some of this stuff sounds - to me at least - more like culture clash than out-and-out racism.

It's not the 50's anymore. Coaches are not going to be able to say and do things that were accepted once upon a time.

Players are gaining more rights - and with that will come demands for more personal expression.

but - whether you think it's racist or not - it's not a good look given the current political climate. When Roger Goodell is telling players they have the right to express themselves on political issues, college programs that try to stick to the old-school approach are going to have a tougher time.
 


Word said:
What loyalty? Just from the recruiting process?
Click to expand...
Could be wrong, but thinking of all the years he lived in Iowa, has some friends down there and probably was going to Iowa games for some time now and that connected him with the players.

I'd be curious to know if Fleck is still contacting him despite being a Iowa commit and also to see if this issue in Iowa blows up all the more. Perhaps there is a side of Kirk that people haven't seen and don't want to be part of that.

The boy's father is of course involved in the Christian community. Perhaps this is not the culture he wants his son to be apart of. Perhaps what loyalty he has is being shadowed by something better out there that he could be apart of. Change is always possible for a 17 year old.
 

Maybe the Iowa program is/has been treating players of African ancestry unfairly. But, logically, there's also a higher probability that former players will come out against Ferentz and his staff because he is the longest-tenured coach in college football (I believe). He has had more players in his system than any other head coach.
 


I usually don’t jump to conclusions on things like this, if it’s a couple players, but there are literally dozens, and it came on so quickly. For that many former players to speak out against the program, it has to be more than just a clash of cultures. It’s overwhelming. Has something like this ever happened at other programs?
 

Pompous Elitist said:
We weren’t there to witness the context and tone of the incidents but some of it sounds more like intergenerational differences or culture clash than outright racism but I’m open to someone convincing me otherwise. Clearly abuse, harassment is not ok but where that line is seems to differ for different people. If coaches cannot enforce their culture or rules or attempt to prepare their guys in their particular way for life after school then I’m not sure where athletics as we currently understand it goes, or going further where society goes. Respect should always predominate every interaction particularly when there is a power difference. That said, players need to understand the methods and rationale of the culture, preferably before signing day, and like PJF expectations and culture should be clearly laid down on paper so any misunderstandings can be discussed beforehand. We could all be more thoughtful with our words - here is an example linked below. Was the following a subtle racist incident or a bad joke in poor taste? Clearly the player was insulted and we should respect that.


Click to expand...
Culture clash at Iowa meant act like a white person who grew up in Bumblefuck, IA.
 


Plato said:
Culture clash at Iowa meant act like a white person who grew up in Bumblefuck, IA.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the respectful comment. Is that painted on the wall in ten foot letters? Fire Ferentz now!
 




Gonna be pretty tough for them to keep him around after this. The Hawkeye board is blowing up.
 

btowngopher said:
Gonna be pretty tough for them to keep him around after this. The Hawkeye board is blowing up.
Click to expand...
Agree. I’d say there’s about a 1 in 4 chance Doyle keeps his job. But he is Kirk Ferentz’s BFF.
 

KillerGopherFan said:
Agree. I’d say there’s about a 1 in 4 chance Doyle keeps his job. But he is Kirk Ferentz’s BFF.
Click to expand...
I think Doyle is definitely gone.
Brian Ferentz might have to be fired as well.
Kirk himself is probably trying to backtrack as much as he can to not be associated with all of this even though as the head coach he should hold himself ultimately accountable for what went on.
 



GopherGuy8 said:
I think Doyle is definitely gone.
Brian Ferentz might have to be fired as well.
Kirk himself is probably trying to backtrack as much as he can to not be associated with all of this even though as the head coach he should hold himself ultimately accountable for what went on.
Click to expand...

I agree about Kirk being ultimately responsible. A question I have is how could this have been going on for so many years and Kirk either didn't know about it, or if he did know, he didn't stop it. Not asking you directly, just a question floating around my empty head. This could get very ugly for Whyowa.
 

This is the 2nd scandal involving Doyle and the strength program, the other being the rhabdomyolysis scandal. In both cases, Doyle was accused of being overly rough.

I don’t think Brian Ferentz will be fired b/c Kirk will save him, but his chances of taking over for Kirk have gone down significantly.
 

Nepotism is never a good look and then to apparently come off as an *** to some of the players. Won’t be sad to see Ferentz Jr. have to make his own way in the world.
 

I am very glad this post did not become very political. I'm very proud of everyone it seems everything is becoming political these days.
 

Iowa, finally, voted out white supremacist Steve King. So that is another step in the right direction!
 

This thing is going to boil over. Here is a list of former Iowa players speaking out:

James Daniels
Rafael Eubanks
Mike Daniels
Adam Gettis
Sean Draper
Amani Hooker
Tevaun Smith
Laron Taylor
Marcel Joly
Aaron Mends
Toren Young
Faith Ekakitie
Jaleel Johnson
Greg Mabin
Darian Cooper
Reggie Spearman
DJ Johnson
Jordan Lomax
Cedric Boswell
Manny Rugamba
Anthony Gair
Maurice Fleming



 

short ornery norwegian said:
Some of this stuff sounds - to me at least - more like culture clash than out-and-out racism.

It's not the 50's anymore. Coaches are not going to be able to say and do things that were accepted once upon a time.

Players are gaining more rights - and with that will come demands for more personal expression.

but - whether you think it's racist or not - it's not a good look given the current political climate. When Roger Goodell is telling players they have the right to express themselves on political issues, college programs that try to stick to the old-school approach are going to have a tougher time.
Click to expand...

I want to start by saying I don't disagree with your main points at all, and I'm sure this idea of a "culture clash" is exactly what many Iowans would argue. I'd also point out that in the minds of many, "culture" is simply code for racism that's acceptable because everyone does it. For example, it might be commonplace in small town Iowa to make jokes about African Americans such as those noted above -- robbing liquor stores, coming from the "ghetto", sagging -- but just because it's common and therefore part of the "culture" doesn't make it less racist. The only way to root it out is to point it out and make it less socially acceptable.
 

alchemy2u said:
What is it with these strength coaches that tend to have this "out dated" macho mentality and still use ridicule as the primary method of motivation? Wasn't it the strength coach at Maryland that tore that program apart (or at least brought to light the problems).
Click to expand...

I agree. My understanding is that beyond being strength coaches they are often cast as the "bad cop" of the program. Some head coaches used to act this way back in the day, but now they tend to outsource that to the strength coach and some other down-the-chain staffers. Allows them to have "discipline" while keeping their own reputations and jobs safe in the age of video and social media.
 


This. Kirk reaching out to the players and listening to their perspectives is really all he can do and maybe there will be some movement to common ground and incremental change. We don’t know what he knew or when he knew it. Do the players listed want dialogue and changes to the program and certain staff or retribution ie dismantling of the Iowa program from the top down?

 

Pompous Elitist said:
This. Kirk reaching out to the players and listening to their perspectives is really all he can do and maybe there will be some movement to common ground and incremental change. We don’t know what he knew or when he knew it. Do the players listed want dialogue and changes to the program and certain staff or retribution ie dismantling of the Iowa program from the top down?

Click to expand...

The only thing I can add here is that after 21 years, how much change is he and his staff going to willing to implement? It's a tough line to manage.

They have a system they adhere to and believe works. And as a result, Kirk Ferentz has earned the reputation for being extremely "old school." He bans social media use by his players during the season and apparently tries to control everything from their haircuts to their tattoos.

A whole lot of the Iowa faithful are chalking this up to these guys being inherently weak, spoiled, uppity or just plain wrong. They seem to like the way the older Ferentz runs things.

With the shear amount of players coming forward, I think we can infer there is a major problem within Iowa football. Is it Doyle specifically? Is it Doyle and Brian Ferentz? Does the older Ferentz whole-heartedly agree with the way Doyle and his son interact with the players? And after 21 years, how willing is he going to be to actually tweak the formula?

It's a tough situation.
 

MRJ said:
The only thing I can add here is that after 21 years, how much change is he and his staff going to willing to implement? It's a tough line to manage.

They have a system they adhere to and believe works. And as a result, Kirk Ferentz has earned the reputation for being extremely "old school." He bans social media use by his players during the season and apparently tries to control everything from their haircuts to their tattoos.

A whole lot of the Iowa faithful are chalking this up to these guys being inherently weak, spoiled, uppity or just plain wrong. They seem to like the way the older Ferentz runs things.

With the shear amount of players coming forward, I think we can infer there is a major problem within Iowa football. Is it Doyle specifically? Is it Doyle and Brian Ferentz? Does the older Ferentz whole-heartedly agree with the way Doyle and his son interact with the players? And after 21 years, how willing is he going to be to actually tweak the formula?

It's a tough situation.
Click to expand...

Your perspective is (I think) dress and behavior codes are inherently racist? I sincerely doubt that’s Ferentz’s perspective. Perhaps they can talk and Ferentz can explain what he’s trying to accomplish with his rules and culture. Maybe it will turn out his rules and program culture are excessively culturally insensitive in 2020. Maybe it will turn out some of the players can explain to Kirk why tattoos or other things are important to their culture, or maybe it will turn out some are “excessively rebellious“ and non-conformational and just a poor fit. I don’t know. Perceptions are not always reality. What I do know is belligerence and lecturing and venomous anger rarely results in positive outcomes. Let’s all try to understand other perspectives.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Your perspective is (I think) dress and behavior codes are inherently racist? I sincerely doubt that’s Ferentz’s perspective. Perhaps they can talk and Ferentz can explain what he’s trying to accomplish with his rules and culture. Maybe it will turn out his rules and program culture are excessively culturally insensitive in 2020. Maybe it will turn out some of the players can explain to Kirk why tattoos or other things are important to their culture, or maybe it will turn out some are “excessively rebellious“ and non-conformational and just a poor fit. I don’t know. Perceptions are not always reality. What I do know is belligerence and lecturing and venomous anger rarely results in positive outcomes. Let’s all try to understand other perspectives.
Click to expand...

Nope. Not even close.

What I'm saying is if there are racist undertones in his program that have made their way in over the years, is he going to be willing to fundamentally change certain aspects of the program? Or is he going to say "this is the way I do things, take it or leave it?"

Doyle has been with him for 21 years and Brian is his son. I find it unlikely he never heard of any of these issues over the years. And If it's determined there is a problem and those two are a big part of it, embracing change is going to be part of the deal. For old-school coaches like Kirk, that usually adds up to asking a lot in their eyes.

I have no problem with dress or behavior codes. Almost every coach in the country has certain expectations regarding dress and behavior. But trying to police kids on their haircuts and tattoos is going to be a problem in today's world. And allowing no social media usage in this day and age is also also going to be a problem. None of that is inherently racist, but those might be some changes that get brought up along with eliminating any potential racism.

Would he be willing to agree to that? I'm honestly not sure. We'll all find out in the coming days.
 

Thank you for the measured tone. I agree things in Iowa City should be evaluated and investigated and some self-examination is in order which I will readily admit applies to me and everyone else reading this. What can we do to be constructive and open lines of communication and understand lack of perspectives and perhaps gaps in knowledge, eg from the majority perspective a particularly embarrassing history which kept many in the black community from building inter generational wealth and stable communities and families.
 

Other than the Pryor incident with the coach telling him that black people don't like boats, none of the former players speaking out gave one example of racism. Im not saying there was or wasn't racism, but Iowa is pretty damned white, 90% to 4% black. If you are coming to Iowa to play football from Chicago, the south or other traditional black cultures, what do you think you are going to walk into?
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Thank you for the measured tone. I agree things in Iowa City should be evaluated and investigated and some self-examination is in order which I will readily admit applies to me and everyone else reading this. What can we do to be constructive and open lines of communication and understand lack of perspectives and perhaps gaps in knowledge, eg from the majority perspective a particularly embarrassing history which kept many in the black community from building inter generational wealth and stable communities and families.
Click to expand...

Fully agree. From my perspective, times like this highlight the difference between hearing and listening. And for many years, I think we've equated hearing what others we're saying in regards to racial issues without really listening.

To say "I hear you" is simply to think that's enough because the words have been spoken and been agreed upon. But really listening is taking it a step further. Really listening involves a deeper engagement and dedication to gaining some level of understanding and empathy. Until now, I feel like it's been a lot of hearing and not a lot of listening. And I'll be honest, I've been just as guilty of it as anyone

Now is simply the time to really listen. Just really listen and go deeper.

From there, we all can start making the changes we clearly need. I just wonder how many people in all walks of life (and especially those who have been fully invested in their respective status quos) will be willing to challenge themselves and accept it.
 

It is hard to keep this conversation just about the Iowa players' criticism of the strength coach. It underscores a greater social disparity and injustice.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom