Black Iowa players critical of strength coach

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Dig into the retweets and replies. There are many former players telling similar stories.
 

Is that the same guy that almost killed some players a few years ago.

Followed that link and reading a few of the comments on this, and on the coaches reply, will not help Iowa recruiting. Ones that talk about needing to join the Iowa culture, get tough, "that is not racist", stupid dumbass guys, NDH signs in the weight room, just because Iowa encourages them to act like decent people, grow the fck up, etc.... There are quite a few comments condemning the actions, but many like these that show the root of the real problems.
 

The answer is no, Kirk. I have to wonder how the collared shirt rule is playing in the MN locker room. These guys have it all figured out.


“Several former Iowa football players are speaking out about the negative experiences they and other black players had while in the program.

Former Iowa offensive lineman James Daniels, now with the Chicago Bears, tweeted Friday night, "There are too many racial disparities in the Iowa football program. Black players have been treated unfairly for far too long." Daniels' tweet prompted responses from several other black players who competed for Iowa.

Former Iowa running back Toren Young, who in January declared for the NFL draft with one year of eligibility remaining, tweeted that black players at Iowa learned to "conform to white culture" when inside the football facility. He later deleted his tweet.

Former Hawkeyes defensive back Amani Hooker, now with the Tennessee Titans, tweeted, "I remember whenever walking into the facility it would be difficult for black players to walk around the facility and be themselves. As if the way you grew up was the wrong way or wasn't acceptable & that you would be judge by that and it would impact playing time." Former Iowa defensive back Marcel Joly tweeted, "I remember when I used to wear my tank tops in the facility, I used to get called in the coaches office because I had too much tattoos and it wasn't the 'Iowa culture' or the 'Iowa Way.'"

Former Iowa players Greg Mabin and Tevaun Smith praised Daniels and others for bringing up issues that had affected black players there.

Iowa coach Kirk Ferentz said Friday that he was "saddened" to hear the comments from former players.

..."Certainly, we come from different backgrounds, different beliefs, all those kinds of things," Ferentz said Wednesday. "But we all agree on something and we all agree to work together and have respect for each other. The essence of any relationship in life is realizing we're not always going to agree on items or topics, but can we all find mutual middle ground and have respect for each other's opinions?"”

www.espn.com

Former Iowa players criticize program's culture

After former Iowa offensive lineman James Daniels tweeted that black players in the program "have been treated unfairly for far too long," other players also shared their negative experiences.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
 




alchemy2u said:
Is that the same guy that almost killed some players a few years ago.

Followed that link and reading a few of the comments on this, and on the coaches reply, will not help Iowa recruiting. Ones that talk about needing to join the Iowa culture, get tough, "that is not racist", stupid dumbass guys, NDH signs in the weight room, just because Iowa encourages them to act like decent people, grow the fck up, etc.... There are quite a few comments condemning the actions, but many like these that show the root of the real problems.
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That was when thirteen Iowa football players succumbed to rhabdomyolysis from strenuous workouts.

It may be totally unrelated, but at that time people in MMA were taking supplements like that suppressed the pain receptors. They over exercised and the results is muscle wasting. Most people recover. Serious consequences like kidney failure requiring kidney dialysis can result.

abcnews.go.com

Thirteen University of Iowa Football Players Hospitalized

Thirteen University of Iowa football players remain hospitalized after becoming ill with what the university says is a muscle syndrome called rhabdomyolysis. Rhabdomyolysis occurs when muscle is destroyed and the pigment in it that makes it red, called myoglobin, gets into the kidneys and can...
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com
 

Are we going to see a "Me Too" movement in college football/sports in general that unmask years of mistreatment not necessarily on racial lines?
 



PSU would be similar to the " me too " movement but I don't think you are going to see many programs that ignore sexual abuse. These players are reporting racist treatment and you are correct we could start hearing about more programs that have racist coaches.
 


Being a tough coach has historically involved some things that these days would be interpreted differently than the past.
 

We weren’t there to witness the context and tone of the incidents but some of it sounds more like intergenerational differences or culture clash than outright racism but I’m open to someone convincing me otherwise. Clearly abuse, harassment is not ok but where that line is seems to differ for different people. If coaches cannot enforce their culture or rules or attempt to prepare their guys in their particular way for life after school then I’m not sure where athletics as we currently understand it goes, or going further where society goes. Respect should always predominate every interaction particularly when there is a power difference. That said, players need to understand the methods and rationale of the culture, preferably before signing day, and like PJF expectations and culture should be clearly laid down on paper so any misunderstandings can be discussed beforehand. We could all be more thoughtful with our words - here is an example linked below. Was the following a subtle racist incident or a bad joke in poor taste? Clearly the player was insulted and we should respect that.


 



Based on what I've seen online, there is a lot of fire behind this smoke.

Doyle is almost certainly gone imo. There have apparently been specific incidents quoted, including one that joked black people don't join rowing teams because they don't like "boats in water." Statements like that are a fireable offense imo. I would therefore be shocked if Doyle is still employed as of Monday.

Whether this filters to the top and Ferentz remains to be seen. But if players continue to speak out, it's going to be very bad for Iowa.

 

The 13 player rhabdo incident alone should have been enough to fire Doyle. I agree he probably won’t survive this no matter the veracity of the newer claims and obviously if true he should be fired. Opinion seems split on Kirk Ferentz but emotions are so high right now who knows?
 

Pompous Elitist said:
The 13 player rhabdo incident alone should have been enough to fire Doyle. I agree he probably won’t survive this no matter the veracity of the newer claims and obviously if true he should be fired. Opinion seems split on Kirk Ferentz but emotions are so high right now who knows?
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In checking out the Iowa forums on this, they're mostly blaming the players, calling them soft, claiming they just don't get it, Kirk is being persecuted and all the usual knee-jerk, protect the program at-all costs nonsense you see from a fanbase. It's basically your stereotypical response to being informed their precious program actually doesn't do things "the right way."

Naturally, the truth is nobody knows for sure. But considering this is Iowa we're talking about, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.
 

MRJ said:
In checking out the Iowa forums on this, they're mostly blaming the players, calling them soft, claiming they just don't get it, Kirk is being persecuted and all the usual knee-jerk, protect the program at-all costs nonsense you see from a fanbase. It's basically your stereotypical response to being informed their precious program actually doesn't do things "the right way."

Naturally, the truth is nobody knows for sure. But considering this is Iowa we're talking about, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.
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Like I said most of the stuff outside of the Doyle allegations seem like routine program culture stuff. No tweeting during the season, dress code, behavior codes. Change my mind.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Like I said most of the stuff outside of the Doyle allegations seem like routine program culture stuff. No tweeting during the season, dress code, behavior codes. Change my mind.
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I don't need to change your mind on anything. And asking me to do so really isn't the point here since I don't necessarily disagree with you. It's a question of whether the racism brought by Doyle is accepted and encouraged as part of the greater football culture at Iowa. The fact that he's been there for 21 years along with Ferentz isn't exactly a glowing endorsement of the overall football culture at Iowa.

With that said, if Ferentz didn't know about these things, then firing Doyle is the only step that needs to be taken. But it seems there at least needs to be some questions asked.
 

Despite all this recruiting is going well for them in my opinion. Also no one has de committed that I'm aware of. I suppose Kirk will say, yea, some people don't want to work as hard etc., to be successful blowing it off.

Will be interesting to see what happens in the next couple weeks. Doubt if Fleck will blast another program rather to focus on the positives of coming here instead in my opinion the right thing to do. Things have a way of back firing eventually if you take the negative route.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
We weren’t there to witness the context and tone of the incidents but some of it sounds more like intergenerational differences or culture clash than outright racism but I’m open to someone convincing me otherwise. Clearly abuse, harassment is not ok but where that line is seems to differ for different people. If coaches cannot enforce their culture or rules or attempt to prepare their guys in their particular way for life after school then I’m not sure where athletics as we currently understand it goes, or going further where society goes. Respect should always predominate every interaction particularly when there is a power difference. That said, players need to understand the methods and rationale of the culture, preferably before signing day, and like PJF expectations and culture should be clearly laid down on paper so any misunderstandings can be discussed beforehand. We could all be more thoughtful with our words - here is an example linked below. Was the following a subtle racist incident or a bad joke in poor taste? Clearly the player was insulted and we should respect that.


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Agreed. Iowa is old school and is slow to adapt to generational changes. Are there racial biases? Abuse of authority or power? Socioeconomic/Cultural differences? Don't know for sure on the first one. It sounds like there is truth to abusiveness. There always has been disparities with poor vs well off, rural vs urban, etc... of kids committing to play college football.

These are seventeen, eighteen, nineteen year-old impressionable kids. Like PJ Fleck have said, each kid is unique and you have to learn to talk to them individually with empathy in order to motivate them. Some kids are more fragile than others.

Iowa has a system that is proven successful for years and they have stuck with it. They probably are slow to recognize or "listen" to the changes with the new decade of kids.

Coaches have to increasingly learn to listen, adapt, cater, and talk to these new generation kids.

I ran across this Generational Differences Chart some time ago. This is a little dated, but you can see the point. I don't remember where I got it. Material culture has changed. My grand kids have no clue what a dial telephone or typewriter is. Young kids are digitally connected.
 

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MRJ said:
I don't need to change your mind on anything. And asking me to do so really isn't the point here since I don't necessarily disagree with you. It's a question of whether the racism brought by Doyle is accepted and encouraged as part of the greater football culture at Iowa. The fact that he's been there for 21 years along with Ferentz isn't exactly a glowing endorsement of the overall football culture at Iowa.

With that said, if Ferentz didn't know about these things, then firing Doyle is the only step that needs to be taken. But it seems there at least needs to be some questions asked.
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Coaching in general has undergone a major shift in what kind of behavior is accepted and I would bet some of the old guard have a tough time with that. Have to be careful about labeling someone as a racist but there certainly seem to be enough examples of Doyle's behavior to say there is an issue there as long as it can be proven that he actually said what he is being accused of saying. Will be surprised if these allegations that are being made by former players don't lead to him being fired.

For Ferentz's part, I hope at the very least he listens to these former players and takes a good hard look at how they are doing things down there. I also think there is a very good chance this could end up hurting them in recruiting if former black players keep on speaking out about the treatment they received while they were at Iowa. Will be interesting to see where it goes from here.
 

#2Gopher said:
Despite all this recruiting is going well for them in my opinion. Also no one has de committed that I'm aware of. I suppose Kirk will say, yea, some people don't want to work as hard etc., to be successful blowing it off.

Will be interesting to see what happens in the next couple weeks. Doubt if Fleck will blast another program rather to focus on the positives of coming here instead in my opinion the right thing to do. Things have a way of back firing eventually if you take the negative route.
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Correct me if I am wrong but didn't this all just happen the past few hours? Any impact on recruiting is unlikely to kick in that fast. Kirk needs to be very careful in how he responds to this because his comments are going to be put under a microscope given what is happening across the country in the wake of George Floyd's murder.

I would not expect Fleck to attack or defend Iowa in this case.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Coaching in general has undergone a major shift in what kind of behavior is accepted and I would bet some of the old guard have a tough time with that. Have to be careful about labeling someone as a racist but there certainly seem to be enough examples of Doyle's behavior to say there is an issue there as long as it can be proven that he actually said what he is being accused of saying. Will be surprised if these allegations that are being made by former players don't lead to him being fired.

For Ferentz's part, I hope at the very least he listens to these former players and takes a good hard look at how they are doing things down there. I also think there is a very good chance this could end up hurting them in recruiting if former black players keep on speaking out about the treatment they received while they were at Iowa. Will be interesting to see where it goes from here.
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At a minimum, that would be a good PR move.
 

hungan1 said:
Agreed. Iowa is old school and is slow to adapt to generational changes. Are there racial biases? Abuse of authority or power? Socioeconomic/Cultural differences? Don't know for sure on the first one. It sounds like there is truth to abusiveness. There always has been disparities with poor vs well off, rural vs urban, etc... of kids committing to play college football.

These are seventeen, eighteen, nineteen year-old impressionable kids. Like PJ Fleck have said, each kid is unique and you have to learn to talk to them individually with empathy in order to motivate them. Some kids are more fragile than others.

Iowa has a system that is proven successful for years and they have stuck with it. They probably are slow to recognize or "listen" to the changes with the new decade of kids.

Coaches have to increasingly learn to listen, adapt, cater, and talk to these new generation kids.

I ran ran across this Generational Differences Chart some time ago. This is a little dated, but you can see the point. I don't remember where I got it. Material culture has changed. My grand kids have no clue what a dial telephone or typewriter is. Young kids are digitally connected.
Click to expand...

Long chart. Looks like some of it was lifted from the Strauss/Howe Generations and The Fourth Turning books that were influential twenty years ago or so. Whoever put it together probably should have differentiated the Greatest Generation and the Silents as Strauss and Howe did because the worldviews of those generations was markedly different.

I'm in my mid-60s and one thing that doesn't get mentioned a whole lot that I think contributes greatly to the discussion is the casual nature of racism in the entertainment media of my youth. So many lazy and wrong-headed caricatures of different races and ethnicities. I think that has contributed to the issue of how one generation just can't figure out how the Frito Bandito is in anyway racist. It's like "Hey. That was a funny character. I'm sure no one meant anything by it." Older folks just need to dial it back a little bit.
 


Pompous Elitist said:
Like I said most of the stuff outside of the Doyle allegations seem like routine program culture stuff. No tweeting during the season, dress code, behavior codes. Change my mind.
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It really only matters what the players' perception and opinions are. If black players feel stifled in the culture, that's all that some other black players need to hear. But they give two shits what Iowa's or any fans think is "normal".
 

WriterGoph said:
It really only matters what the players' perception and opinions are. If black players feel stifled in the culture, that's all that some other black players need to hear. But they give two shits what Iowa's or any fans think is "normal".
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Regular one on ones between the players and the coaches are important. Football is like a mass counseling program.
 

WriterGoph said:
It really only matters what the players' perception and opinions are. If black players feel stifled in the culture, that's all that some other black players need to hear. But they give two shits what Iowa's or any fans think is "normal".
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It’s true players can choose to go to any program they wish based on their perceptions and the opinions of others. I do think it is important to discuss whether Ferentz and others are crossing lines of conduct in terms of discrimination and prejudice because that has other more serious implications. For example, is disallowing or discouraging tattoos or restricting certain behaviors and language actually culturally insensitive, or a way for Ferentz to try to instill life skills and illustrate how broader society perceives such things. Is it possible some players just don’t like to be told what to do or how to behave?
 


What is it with these strength coaches that tend to have this "out dated" macho mentality and still use ridicule as the primary method of motivation? Wasn't it the strength coach at Maryland that tore that program apart (or at least brought to light the problems).
 

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