Big Ten Basketball: Early grades for each teams 2023 offseason moves (14. Minnesota Golden Gophers – Grade: F)

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howeda7 said:
Ihnen and Betts will both be better than Battle if fans will just believe!
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Get current. Betts and Christie and it is a massive upgrade from 22-23. I don’t know where CBJ plays Ihnen. Could be several places.
 




GopherWeatherGuy said:
Lol, Ihnen and Betts combined won't average half of what Battle does this year.
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We'll double back to this. I think they will if Ihnen is healthy and I also think that the pair will not be low efficiency shot chuckers who average less than a point per shot. Both will play better defense and pass the ball. If they each play 18 minutes (split Battle's time) I think we are better off for it.
I'm not going to bet, (we don't need each other's money) or have one of us banished for a year, I just think it might be better than you think. This IS an interesting question you pose though!!
 



bga1 said:
We'll double back to this. I think they will if Ihnen is healthy and I also think that the pair will not be low efficiency shot chuckers who average less than a point per shot. Both will play better defense and pass the ball. If they each play 18 minutes (split Battle's time) I think we are better off for it.
I'm not going to bet, (we don't need each other's money) or have one of us banished for a year, I just think it might be better than you think. This IS an interesting question you pose though!!
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Isaiah Ihnen's last season:
.96 points per shot
1.5 assists per 40 minutes

Jameson Battle last year:
.99 points
2.0 assists per 40 minutes
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
Isaiah Ihnen's last season:
.96 points per shot
1.5 assists per 40 minutes

Jameson Battle last year:
.99 points
2.0 assists per 40 minutes
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So you are trying to tell me that Ihnen is about the same as last year's version of Battle? Ihnen averaged 10 rebounds per 40- Battle averaged 4 per 40. Oh an by the way a frosh Ihnen averaged 1.08 pts per shot.
 
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Bob_Loblaw said:
Good coaches find a way to not get lost in the game. It's difficult (no doubt), but if you are constantly abandoning your game plan because of getting lost in the game, it's a coaching failure.

This actually bothered me a bit in Battle's first game back when the coach said he was only going to play him like 20 minutes and then played him 40. It showed that he got lost in the moment. I think Ben does this quite a bit (it's something he'd probably admit he needs to improve). I actually think it's one of the things that can improve with experience.

We saw this same thing with Pitino with allocating minutes to certain players. He'd talk about getting Carr or someone more rest and then get lost in the game. I think it wore Carr out.
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Very well-stated.

Game plans are obviously produced for a reason. After studying an opponent, looking at game film, strategizing individual matchups, you draw up as comprehensive a plan as possible saying look, this is what we aim to do. These are their strengths and weaknesses as compared to our strengths and weaknesses. These are the things we're wanting to try and exploit. These are the things we need to be wary of. These are the times and situations in which we're gonna do this, or this, or this, and on and on and on. That is the essence of coaching.

Of course we know that things will almost never go according to plan, because chaos, randomness, humanity, but you want to try and have contingencies in place no matter what in order to compensate for as many variables as best you possibly can and you have to be able to adjust your plan at any time due to circumstance, but if you truly believe in yourself, your coaches and your players, you cannot just abandon your plan altogether. If you're getting lost within the game such that you can't, won't, or don't stick to the plan, then what's the point of even having one? Then it simply becomes playground ball where you're merely reacting to your opponent as opposed to trying to dictate to them.

It is hard. It is very hard, but you have to try and adhere as much as possible to the plan you've devised.
 

as far as Battle, it seems fairly clear (to me, at least) that he was not coming back, one way or the other.

I have no inside info, so this is just speculation, but:
--I think Battle really intended to pursue pro opportunities, but got some feedback that going pro might not be his best option.
--and then, someone stepped up with a NIL offer that looked better than marginal pro prospects.

bottom line is still the same - he wasn't coming back. I look at Battle the way I would look at a graduating Senior, so I really don't count him as a loss.

out with the old, in with the new.
 

howeda7 said:
And that was with Betts shattering Battle's confidence by dominating him in practice... 😎
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Something shattered his confidence and for this summer, since we don't know who or what it was, I for one certainly like to think it is Betts!
 

Tough competition in practice makes some players great. It hurts others. Good luck Jamison. Take it easy on us, please!
 





bga1 said:
So you are trying to tell me that Ihnen is about the same as last year's version of Battle? Ihnen averaged 10 rebounds per 40- Battle averaged 4 per 40. Oh an by the way a frosh Ihnen averaged 1.08 pts per shot.
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Ihnen's sample size is tiny. I don't think extrapolating stats from 3-4 years ago of a guy who played 5 minutes/game means much.
 

bga1 said:
Something shattered his confidence and for this summer, since we don't know who or what it was, I for one certainly like to think it is Betts!
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If that were remotely true, they should have pulled his redshirt ASAP. He'll obviously be turning pro long before he uses up all 4 years.
 

bga1 said:
So you are trying to tell me that Ihnen is about the same as last year's version of Battle? Ihnen averaged 10 rebounds per 40- Battle averaged 4 per 40. Oh an by the way a frosh Ihnen averaged 1.08 pts per shot.
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I tried to tell you exactly what I told you. You said Ihnen will pass the ball better and not shoot for under 1 pt per shot. Well, he was worse at those two things than Battle.

That's also really neat about Ihnen averaging 1.08 points per shot in the previous season. Battle averaged 1.23 points per shot the previous season.
 

Rockraven said:
Tough competition in practice makes some players great. It hurts others. Good luck Jamison. Take it easy on us, please!
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You realize you're talking about one of the worst Big 10 basketball teams in history? We did not have tough competition at practice. The players who actually played were terrible and the players they were scrimmaging against were worse. That was the worst team Battle has played on since HS. He wasn't broken by the competition at practice.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
You realize you're talking about one of the worst Big 10 basketball teams in history? We did not have tough competition at practice. The players who actually played were terrible and the players they were scrimmaging against were worse. That was the worst team Battle has played on since HS. He wasn't broken by the competition at practice.
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Keep trying. You’re saying Battle fell apart for no reason?
 

howeda7 said:
Ihnen and Betts will both be better than Battle if fans will just believe!
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I wish Battle was still on this roster we all know what kind of player he is capable of being but take away the name and look at the production from last year.
37% FG%
44% 2P%
31% 3P%
1.2 FTA
3.8 TRB
1.7 AST
12.6 FGA averaging 12.4 points

No doubt he will probably be better next year in Ohio St but I would also bet we have someone on this roster that can contribute more than the version of Battle we had last year.
 

Cooper was slow footed, but did have some nice assists, and also dribbled too much. Battle had a nice first year, but the lack of other shooters didnt take any pressure off him. As for him going NBA? Really? He is a nice shooter when free, and maybe will do better in a program with a couple scorers better than he is. I do like him, but he can’t carry a team by himself. That said, when he tore himself loose from the scrum to hug his GMA after the game winner, was one of the finer moments in the barns history!
 

bga1 said:
I disagree. If you don't have the speed, experience and strength, you have a ceiling defensively.

Last year, Cooper couldn't stop his man, Battle couldn't and four guys who could were green and got lost at times. It got better late in the year.
Defense needs to be excellent this year. We have enough experience and better speed. Even Betts had a year to learn. The only contributor who will not have the experience is Christie.

I think there are.
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I agree there is a ceiling. But, we were no where near it. Elite athletes do make things easier but you can still be a good defensive team with what we had.

Sure, players have weaknesses, deficiencies, limitations but in the case of college…who recruited the roster?
In the case of high school, college, pros- if what you got is what you got roster wise then you still need to coach to the strengths of what you have. We had a zone roster.

But, it’s not that simple. You still need a coach who is gifted in analysis, scheme, teaching, motivation, mindset, what you’ll accept, emphasis etc etc You need to put them in position to succeed.
Same players, two different coaches are going get very different results if one coach is elite.
 

Rockraven said:
Keep trying. You’re saying Battle fell apart for no reason?
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The idea that Battle fell apart this last year because he was getting mentally dominated by Betts in practice is one of the all time most idiotic basketball takes ever. Not calling you an idiot by any means, but that is one of the most laughable takes of all time. Easy there pilgrim, you may be getting a bit too excited.
 

Rockraven said:
Keep trying. You’re saying Battle fell apart for no reason?
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No, I have made it abundantly clear, I think Battle was worse last year because he was played out of position. I said it would happen before the season started.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I tried to tell you exactly what I told you. You said Ihnen will pass the ball better and not shoot for under 1 pt per shot. Well, he was worse at those two things than Battle.

That's also really neat about Ihnen averaging 1.08 points per shot in the previous season. Battle averaged 1.23 points per shot the previous season.
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Rebounds? Defense?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
You realize you're talking about one of the worst Big 10 basketball teams in history? We did not have tough competition at practice. The players who actually played were terrible and the players they were scrimmaging against were worse. That was the worst team Battle has played on since HS. He wasn't broken by the competition at practice.
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Ben played and has now coached some of the worst big ten basketball teams in 30 years! Amazing !
 


bga1 said:
Rebounds? Defense?
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Are you asking my opinion on who will be better at rebounding and defense?

I was commenting on your post where you said we shouldn't expect inefficient shooting from Ihnen and that he'll be a better passer. He will not bring those things, I'm glad you've seen the light and we can dismiss that silly argument.

IF we are now pivoting to my opinion on how Ihnen will be at defense and rebounding, that's fine.

Assuming he is healthy, I think Ihnen would be an OK player on defense if he's playing SF. I think he'd actually be a pretty good defensive player if he's playing the post. Rebounding, he will be a good rebounder.

If Ihnen is playing the 4/5 next season, I think he'll be a decent player. I've been told there are just no minutes at the 4 because we have Garcia, but if Ben can somehow find a way to play him at the 4, I think he could be effective there.

If he's playing the 3, I think he'll struggle. He might be OK on defense but it will absolutely gum up our entire offense by having a wing who cannot dribble, cannot shoot, and has shown absolutely zero guard skills (I thought the same thing with Battle and Battle has at least the mirage of some guard skills).
 


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