Big Play Traye Lacking Confiedence

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From Marcus Fuller's blog. If you need a smile on your face, read this. My favorite part:

Hopefully, I can be a first-round draft pick or an All-American or something

Here's to having the best secondary we've had in a while - cheers.
 

are you mocking Traye Simmons implying he can't be a first round pick or All American?

I agree he was every bit as good as Davis and Jenkins with more upside than either of them. It was wise that he stayed because this year he will be the top corner in the Big Ten and one of the top in the country. He should be playing in the SEC against better talent but I am very glad he chose to be a Gopher. He and Carter starting together will give us the best two corners playing at the same time that we have ever had in the history of the program
 

lawrence21 said:
are you mocking Traye Simmons implying he can't be a first round pick or All American?

I agree he was every bit as good as Davis and Jenkins with more upside than either of them. It was wise that he stayed because this year he will be the top corner in the Big Ten and one of the top in the country. He should be playing in the SEC against better talent but I am very glad he chose to be a Gopher. He and Carter starting together will give us the best two corners playing at the same time that we have ever had in the history of the program
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A) I'm not mocking him. I laughed while I read that because it's rare to hear a gopher speak so confidently.

B) Unless Sherels get's hurt, BPT and Carter will not start alongside eachother.
 

I would not say Carter is better then Sherels. Sherels and Traye give us the best corners we've had here in a LONGGGGGGG time.
 

I agree, and I also feel Sherels is a far better cover corner than Traye, why else would every team choose to pick on Traye every single game? The coaches saw something, Traye is good, but I feel a lot of people dont watch him every play and just look at his stats. A few of his picks were thrown to him as if he was the receiver last year.
 


Sherels? are you kidding? He is better than the jokes we have had like Jamal Harris and Trumaine Banks. He is an upgrade over what we had but lets not forget he is a walk on wide receiver. Simmons and Carter are 4 star players and Carter will take over the starting role opposite Simmons mid season. I appreciate Sherels play but he is not as good as Simmons or Carter
 

Mr. Samsonite said:
I agree, and I also feel Sherels is a far better cover corner than Traye, why else would every team choose to pick on Traye every single game? The coaches saw something, Traye is good, but I feel a lot of people dont watch him every play and just look at his stats. A few of his picks were thrown to him as if he was the receiver last year.
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This is a good point about Sherels - teams did not throw the ball his way, especially prior to the Indiana game when he was 100%. Was he given more help? Covering lesser recievers? Maybe, its hard to say, but if the quarterback consistently decides not to throw a corners way it seems like he must be doing his job.
 

lawrence21 said:
Sherels? are you kidding? He is better than the jokes we have had like Jamal Harris and Trumaine Banks. He is an upgrade over what we had but lets not forget he is a walk on wide receiver. Simmons and Carter are 4 star players and Carter will take over the starting role opposite Simmons mid season. I appreciate Sherels play but he is not as good as Simmons or Carter
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I saw Carter practice and play in person last year the US Army All-American Bowl in San Antonio. The kid is a great prospect, but is "handsy" in coverage and would certainly not get away with that level of contact on a regular basis in D1 football. Between what I saw him doing that week (granted, limited sample) and what I saw Sherels do live in games last season, I would definitely say it's Sherels' job to lose and he'd have to really perform poorly to lose it (I don't believe he will).

Whether Simmons is better than Sherels is a debate that I'm still undecided about at this point.
 

no way carter takes sherels spot. sherels was solid in his FIRST year at corner, so he can only improve unless his injury hampers him but I hear his recovery has gone perfect.
 



Sherels covered shortside of the field, giving him less time to recover on comeback throws, Traye had wideside, which generally means there is more recovery time, and a slot receiver which requires safety help. Our corners were both put on an island a lot this year because we trusted them on one on one coverage. Lawrence21, if you get caught up on the 4 star rating, I suggest you look at our former 4 star LB, Alex Daniels, who obviously didnt end his career here as a beast, and ended up as a band-aid RB and eventually had to transfer. Watch the game not the ratings. That said, I hope Carter is a stud, but after seeing him around campus, he has an awful lot of muscle to put on to become a big 10 CB
 

Lets not forget Simmons often held down the opposing #1 receiver and generally did a great job. BPT also had less safety help generally last year
 

Simmons is really solid. The proof is that you rarely hear his named called. I don't think he's an All-American as of this minute. I think he's All Big Ten quality for sure.

Before Sherels got hurt he was a nice player for us.

If Carter II is half as good as Carter I, then I'll be happy.
 

Simmons is NOT in the same league as Malcom Jenkins or Vontae Davis. While I do agree he is good, he still is not the best in the Big Ten. There are other elite corners in the league without Jenkins and Davis.
 



lawrence concerns himself with attributes such as star ratings, forty speeds, and other type measurables-that's the make of a solid player for him, what's down on paper. Such things as experience and actual production on the field are disregarded in his world.

I used to think this way too, albeit I wasn't so rude in my opinions. That ended about 10th grade for me though, when Ernest Nzigamasabo (sp?) busted my cherry on that one. I recall reading Sid's tidbits about him-6'9", can dribble behind his back, and knock down shots from 17', that was Ziggy's game according to Senor Sid-never quite translated to the court. Whether it's the aforementioned Alex Daniels, Dominique Sims, Willie Williams, Ryan Perriloux, or hundreds, if not thousands of others, a 4 star recruit with all the desired attributes doesn't always pan out on the field. I hope Carter lives up to his clippings and his cousin's legacy, but I think it's unlikely he unseats a very solid corner such as Sherels as a true freshman, unless injuries come into the picture.
 

Sherels is solid and his playing does not concern me, he won't get burned and he does his job. However Simmons and Carter will be playing Sundays while Sherels will have a nice college career and we can be proud of him, but he will never smell the league. I do pay attention to measurables and stars and will take my chances on a four star player over a walk on any day. Some 4 stars don't pan out but their chances are much better. Brewster knows he needs to win and Carter will be starting sometime this season
 

We have no clue what Carter will be doing. He may be great or he may suck. He's never stepped foot on a college campus and he doesn't even have top notch, can't miss measureables. I hope he turns into a great player but I also hope he doesn't see the field next year. That would mean Collado is doing a good job at the 3rd corner slot and guys like Johnny Johnson are playing well enough to be ahead of a true frosh or at least well enough so the staff feels comfortable red shirting Carter since he's still about 15lbs too light for his size at the least
 

We have a clue what Carter will be doing. Rivals says carter is an All-American Candidate; high-major prospect; considered one of the nation's top 300 prospects; deemed to have pro potential and ability to make an impact on college team. Carter is closer to stud than he is to bust, not a science but a good indication.
 

I really just cant take any ratings seriously, both Vontae Davis and Malcolm Jenkins were rated 3 stars coming out of HS, so technically according to Rivals Traye should be one star better than those guys, whatever that equates to?
 

Simmons sure fooled me last year. He may have been the best CB we had but 2nd team BT????
 

Good indication but no sure thing. Carter was Rivals' 12th rank CB last year.
2004
McIntosh Nicolas
Cortney Grixby
Willie Glasper, Jr.
Trimane Goddard
Virdell Larkins
Bryan Payton
2005
Avery Atkins
Anthony Wiseman
Bruce Johnson
2006
Jonas Mouton
Steve Brown
Leonard Hewitt
Quintin Banks
2007
Anthony Gildon
Gary Gray
James Scott

Thats just a real quick list before I got bored of corners ranked 12th or higher who either never started or aren't currently even on the 2 deeps for their school. Carter is by no means a sure thing
Ben Wells
 

Mr. Samsonite, Traye was as good as those two corners last year. In fact he had more picks than either one of them, more TD's than either one of them, and more passes knocked down than either one of them. So that is what 1 star better equates to, more picks, more pick six, more knockdowns.


and oleboy41, I am glad you pull for people to fail rather than succeed. Can't you just say Carter is a stud and know that he will be one? When Traye Simmons verballed he became the best DB we have ever had in this program, he then stepped on the field and proved it. Simmons could have been a starting corner on the National Champion Gators but chose to be a part of Gopher Nation.
 

Two questions Lawrence:
1. When did you start following the Gophers program? 2005?
2. What in the name of the good Lord have you gotten ahold of and are smoking?

Traye Simmons, best DB ever in this program? Have you heard of Michael Carter's cousin, Tyrone? The 1999 Jim Thorpe award winner? I'm sure some of the old-timers can help me here, but I think the glory years of the Gopher program probably featured some formidable DB's too, even if the game was different then. I know, I know. . .no Rivals or Scout stars to really tell us how great they were, but I'll trust they proved themselves alright on to the football field.
 

lawrence21 said:
Sherels? are you kidding? He is better than the jokes we have had like Jamal Harris and Trumaine Banks. He is an upgrade over what we had but lets not forget he is a walk on wide receiver. Simmons and Carter are 4 star players and Carter will take over the starting role opposite Simmons mid season. I appreciate Sherels play but he is not as good as Simmons or Carter
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Banks was a victim of our lack of depth. He should have been a safety and would have had it not been for injuries etc.

Banks made a game winning play against PSU his senior year, but the refs snatched victory from him.

BTW We have had many respectable DB's T. Carter, Lehan, Dozier(Yes Dozier), Middlebrooks(another safety forced out of position) Owens..... They just had to cover too darn long.

What will be key for Big Play Traye, will be a pressure creating front seven.

Go get-em Traye!
 

Lawrence, its obvious any CB is gonna have more chances to get knockdowns or INTs or TDs if he is thrown at that many more times. QBs relentlessly picked on Traye. The pick 6 TD he had was thrown right to him, anyone could have picked it. I'm not saying Traye is bad by any means, im just saying youre too caught up in stats, and if you'd just watch how each of them play, you'd see the difference between them. Does that make the Iowa DB's the best in the big 10 because they had the most picks?
 

lawrence21 said:
Mr. Samsonite, Traye was as good as those two corners last year. In fact he had more picks than either one of them, more TD's than either one of them, and more passes knocked down than either one of them. So that is what 1 star better equates to, more picks, more pick six, more knockdowns.


and oleboy41, I am glad you pull for people to fail rather than succeed. Can't you just say Carter is a stud and know that he will be one? When Traye Simmons verballed he became the best DB we have ever had in this program, he then stepped on the field and proved it. Simmons could have been a starting corner on the National Champion Gators but chose to be a part of Gopher Nation.
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Slow down! I love BPT and believe he has all of the potential in the world. I'm just having trouble with you saying he is already better that Tyrone Carter. Tyrone won the Thorpe award. That is lofty territory.
 

coolhandgopher said:
Two questions Lawrence:
1. When did you start following the Gophers program? 2005?
2. What in the name of the good Lord have you gotten ahold of and are smoking?

Traye Simmons, best DB ever in this program? Have you heard of Michael Carter's cousin, Tyrone? The 1999 Jim Thorpe award winner? I'm sure some of the old-timers can help me here, but I think the glory years of the Gopher program probably featured some formidable DB's too, even if the game was different then. I know, I know. . .no Rivals or Scout stars to really tell us how great they were, but I'll trust they proved themselves alright on to the football field.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I didn't see this post.
 

lawrence21 said:
Can't you just say Carter is a stud and know that he will be one?
Click to expand...

At 5'11" 155 lbs., I don't know that Carter is ready to come in and start dominating the Big 10 tomorrow. And like I said before, unlike you, I've watched this kid in person multiple times. He could end up being a great one. He was blazing fast and had good instincts on the ball. But seriously, right now he's a walking pass interference penalty (or at least he was last January). I don't know that he's technique will be completely worked out by the time September rolls around. The other problem is, how can someone living in the 155-165 lbs. weight range provide ANY run support on the edge?

lawrence21 said:
When Traye Simmons verballed he became the best DB we have ever had in this program, he then stepped on the field and proved it.
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Whatever credibility you had, consider it lost.
 

parkinglotgopher said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrence21
When Traye Simmons verballed he became the best DB we have ever had in this program, he then stepped on the field and proved it.



Whatever credibility you had, consider it lost.
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He didn't have any to begin with. He lost any inkling he had way back when when he said DO was 100 times better the WVS is or would ever be...
 

lawrence21 said:
Mr. Samsonite, Traye was as good as those two corners last year. In fact he had more picks than either one of them, more TD's than either one of them, and more passes knocked down than either one of them. So that is what 1 star better equates to, more picks, more pick six, more knockdowns.


and oleboy41, I am glad you pull for people to fail rather than succeed. Can't you just say Carter is a stud and know that he will be one? When Traye Simmons verballed he became the best DB we have ever had in this program, he then stepped on the field and proved it. Simmons could have been a starting corner on the National Champion Gators but chose to be a part of Gopher Nation.
Click to expand...

Saying that Carter isn't a guaranteed star is not rooting for someone to fail. I think he has a world of talent and I really want him to be a great one. However I don't 'know' he'll be one because you never know who will be great and who won't. I also don't expect anyone to be more than a mediocre player until their 3rd year in the program. Good teams have 2 deeps filled with Juniors and Seniors, not freshmen (redshirt or otherwise) and sophomores
 

I like Simmons but he isn't as good as Jenkins or Davis. Jenkins & Davis are both going to be 1st round picks tomorrow and unless Simmons has a much better senior year than junior year he won't match that. He is our best corner and I think he can be a top 3 round draft pick but I wouldn't consider him a lock down corner at the next level and Davis definitely is while Jenkins is likely to get moved to safety but he'll be a safety with great coverage skills. My one concern about BPT is that his speed is borderline for the next level (~4.5) and I don't think he is physical enough to play the safety position in the NFL.

Sherels was actually a walk on cornerback that got moved to WR because we didn't have the depth at WR to run the spread. Last year they moved him back to his natural position of CB.

I consider it highly unlikely that Carter will come in and start from day one. He probably has the best physical abilities of any of the CB's in the program but there are other players that have more refined technique. If he can take over the #2 CB position by the end of the year we will have a better D but as long as he can take the nickel back position from day one I will be happy.

IMO Lehan (3rd round pick?)/Middlebrooks (1st round pick) was a better CB duo than we currently have. I can't remember if their last year together was 1999 or 2000 but this is definitely the best duo that we have had since then. If Carter had experience and was playing alonside BPT then I might agree that this group is better. In other way of saying it, this group's physical attributes rival those of the other group but we had two experienced CB's that became NFLers playing together.

And I saw one poster call Middlebrooks a safety that had to play CB and I completely disagree with that. He had all the physical capabilities of a CB and the Broncos were so enamored by his measurements that they made him a 1st round pick as a CB. IMO he didn't have the ball skills to justify a first round pick. Maybe he would have been better in a cover-2 at safety where the field is in front of him but he definitely had the physical tools--but not the technique--to be a lock down CB in college or the NFL.
 

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