Big Play Traye Lacking Confiedence

[grunkiejr]

Two questions Lawrence:
1. When did you start following the Gophers program? 2005?
2. What in the name of the good Lord have you gotten ahold of and are smoking?

Traye Simmons, best DB ever in this program? Have you heard of Michael Carter's cousin, Tyrone? The 1999 Jim Thorpe award winner? I'm sure some of the old-timers can help me here, but I think the glory years of the Gopher program probably featured some formidable DB's too, even if the game was different then. I know, I know. . .no Rivals or Scout stars to really tell us how great they were, but I'll trust they proved themselves alright on to the football field.

Did someone call Simmons the best DB or CB? If we're comparing him to Tyrone Carter, Carter was a safety in college. The NFL tried to move him to CB because he didn't have ideal size for a safety but he is clearly better as a S than CB because he has mediocre ball skills but is phenomenal in run support. Carter was a better DB but Simmons is a more natural CB than TC.

IMO Mike Lehan is the best CB I have ever seen at Minnesota. I know Middlebrooks ended up being a 1st round pick (because of his freak measurements) and Lehan was selected in a later round but Lehan was a better player. That is probably why Middlebrooks flamed out in the NFL and Lehan became a starter in the NFL.

 

[gopherguy05]

When Traye Simmons verballed he became the best DB we have ever had in this program, he then stepped on the field and proved it.

Did someone call Simmons the best DB or CB?

Lawrence is not a great college football mind.....

 

[GopherGod]

Did someone call Simmons the best DB or CB? If we're comparing him to Tyrone Carter, Carter was a safety in college. The NFL tried to move him to CB because he didn't have ideal size for a safety but he is clearly better as a S than CB because he has mediocre ball skills but is phenomenal in run support. Carter was a better DB but Simmons is a more natural CB than TC.

IMO Mike Lehan is the best CB I have ever seen at Minnesota. I know Middlebrooks ended up being a 1st round pick (because of his freak measurements) and Lehan was selected in a later round but Lehan was a better player. That is probably why Middlebrooks flamed out in the NFL and Lehan became a starter in the NFL.

Middlebrooks actually did start a few games for the Broncos, I think some of his biggest problems were off the field. People tend to not like it when a player beats up his girlfriend.

 

[grunkiejr]

Middlebrooks actually did start a few games for the Broncos, I think some of his biggest problems were off the field. People tend to not like it when a player beats up his girlfriend.

I wasn't even aware of that.

If they are good enough as players it tends to get overlooked (Pac Man never did much in the NFL and look what he has gotten away with).

 

[lawrence21]

I never compared Tyrone Carter to BPT. Apples and Oranges. Carter was a safety and was great at run support and was a sure tackler, he rarely had to cover anyone one on one. Carter also had a million tackles because our D was not great and he was our last line of defense to bring the ball carrier down, Thank goodness he was. I say BPT was the greatest DB (meaning Corner back, safeties are less skilled and usually slower Corners turned safety) we have had because of the schools that offered him, he was coveted by good coaches and programs not a MAC reject.

And to whoever said that Simmons int's were thrown right to him like he was the receiver, its called jumping the route and beating the receiver to the spot to make the pick, the QB did not throw it to him. And if QB's were picking on him they did a terrible job of it, 13 passes knocked to the ground. QB's picked on Collado and did a good job of it.

Middlebrooks was good and Lehan was also good but he was an over achiever. My father coached Michael Lehan in 4th and 5th grade, nice kid. BPT has instincts to play corner and will be even better this year than last.

also never said Carter would start from day 1, I said be starting by the end of the season, I would never expect him to start opening day.

oleboy41, "I also don't expect anyone to be more than a mediocre player until their 3rd year in the program." Is Pryor mediocre? do you expect Sentrel to be mediocre? I expect great players to be gone to the pros by their 3rd year in the program

 

[eker0016]

Lehan was also good but he was an over achiever.

What does it even mean to be an overachiever? He was actually better/improved more than people thought he would coming out of high school?

How does this in any way change the possibility he was our program's best DB? That ranking should be based on what someone has achieved, not based on if they underachieved or if they overachieved, or if they were offered by a lot of schools or walked on. I'd be interested in a step by step rationale behind the logic for your ideas/opinions. They really confuse me.

 

[lawrence21]

easy, Marion Barber was an overachiever, nobody wanted him out of high school and now he is a pro bowl player and a top RB in the NFL. He worked very hard and became better than what he should have been, he defied what a lot of coaches and scouts thought. Michael Lehan did the same thing to a regard, He worked very hard to make himself an NFL player. Others are gifted and it comes very easy to them, sometimes too easy and they blow it.

 

[GoAUpher]

I never compared Tyrone Carter to BPT. Apples and Oranges. Carter was a safety and was great at run support and was a sure tackler, he rarely had to cover anyone one on one. Carter also had a million tackles because our D was not great and he was our last line of defense to bring the ball carrier down, Thank goodness he was. I say BPT was the greatest DB (meaning Corner back, safeties are less skilled and usually slower Corners turned safety) we have had because of the schools that offered him, he was coveted by good coaches and programs not a MAC reject.

And to whoever said that Simmons int's were thrown right to him like he was the receiver, its called jumping the route and beating the receiver to the spot to make the pick, the QB did not throw it to him. And if QB's were picking on him they did a terrible job of it, 13 passes knocked to the ground. QB's picked on Collado and did a good job of it.

Middlebrooks was good and Lehan was also good but he was an over achiever. My father coached Michael Lehan in 4th and 5th grade, nice kid. BPT has instincts to play corner and will be even better this year than last.

also never said Carter would start from day 1, I said be starting by the end of the season, I would never expect him to start opening day.

oleboy41, "I also don't expect anyone to be more than a mediocre player until their 3rd year in the program." Is Pryor mediocre? do you expect Sentrel to be mediocre? I expect great players to be gone to the pros by their 3rd year in the program

Um...the term defensive back includes safeties. If you want to refer to only cornerbacks then you use the word...wait for it...cornerbacks. Or CB if you so prefer. I know its a recent change, but hopefully you'll catch on quick. For future reference, the term offensive backfield does not refer only to the quarterback (or QB). It also includes the running backs (RB), who can also be subdivided into halfbacks (HB) or fullbacks (FB). No need to thank me for helping avoid future confusion.

With regards to Pryor and Sentrel...they were/are the #1 national recruit of their year. Not really an apt comparison to BPT.

 

[Plinnius]

Is Pryor mediocre?

Pryor was pretty mediocre last year.

 

[paulser21]

Alright, basically here is what everyone is saying or what everyone should be saying....

-BPT and Sherels are going to be a pretty good combination in 2009. The best we have had in several years.

-BPT has a lot of skills and should eventually be playing on Sundays. However, we should not tout him as the best CB we have ever had. He has played ONE season of college football. Before we crown him as the best CB we have ever had, let him show us his skills for two years.

-We are all ecstatic that Carter chose Minnesota over West Virginia. He was one of the most highly recruited CB's in the nation. However, don't crown him yet either. Don't say he is an NFL player yet. He hasn't played a single down yet. We all hope he will become the amazing prospect that we have all read about but he still needs to add 20 pounds or so to be at all effective. If we want to get into measurables (that NFL teams WILL use for draft purposes) he is almost 50 pounds lighter than Vontae Davis.

-We are all Gopher fans. We all want our players to succeed. Let's hope all of these kids continue to grow and develop so we can put their names in the same hat as the Tyrone Carters and Willie Middlebrooks' that have gone on to the NFL.

 

[SDGophers]

are you mocking Traye Simmons implying he can't be a first round pick or All American?

I agree he was every bit as good as Davis and Jenkins with more upside than either of them. It was wise that he stayed because this year he will be the top corner in the Big Ten and one of the top in the country. He should be playing in the SEC against better talent but I am very glad he chose to be a Gopher. He and Carter starting together will give us the best two corners playing at the same time that we have ever had in the history of the program

Michael Carter hasn't even registered for classes and he is already considered on of "the best two corners?" I am excited about Michael Carter, and lived on second floor Comstock Hall with his uncle Tyrone, but I think it is a little presumptuos to already annoint him a starter let alone one of the best two corners to be playing at the same time. I believe Marcus Sherels will be starting this year, not Michael. No offense to Michael but he needs to hit the weights and build up his frame.

 

[lawrence21]

you mean his cousin Tyrone? and you don't need more weight as a corner if you don't let your receiver catch the ball you don't need to tackle. Deion Sanders made a living not tackling people

 

[GopherFan75]

you mean his cousin Tyrone? and you don't need more weight as a corner if you don't let your receiver catch the ball you don't need to tackle. Deion Sanders made a living not tackling people

That is a very unintelligent comment. Even the best cover corners have to make tackles, it's part of the game. You also need weight and strength when it comes to coverage so you can jam receivers at the line and win battles for the football when it is thrown.
________
Arizona Medical Marijuana Dispensary

 

[GoAUpher]

That is a very unintelligent comment. Even the best cover corners have to make tackles, it's part of the game. You also need weight and strength when it comes to coverage so you can jam receivers at the line and win battles for the football when it is thrown.

I wouldn't expect anything less from a poster who says CB's are the only DB's.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

are you mocking Traye Simmons implying he can't be a first round pick or All American?

I agree he was every bit as good as Davis and Jenkins with more upside than either of them. It was wise that he stayed because this year he will be the top corner in the Big Ten and one of the top in the country. He should be playing in the SEC against better talent but I am very glad he chose to be a Gopher. He and Carter starting together will give us the best two corners playing at the same time that we have ever had in the history of the program

Larry, you're a fountain of misinformation and poor opinions. What are you about 13 tears old? 1) No one was mocking Simmons. 2) Top CB in the Big-10 and one of the top in the country? That's possible yes. He should be playing in the SEC against better competition? The Big-10 produces some pretty damn good WR's and BPT passed on his Florida offer because he wanted to play immediately to showcase himself for the NFL (mission accomplished). 3) Carter will not be starting this season unless Sherels and Collado both get injured and even then it's no lock. Carter weighs 150lbs and has never played a snap of college ball.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

Not only will Sherels retain his starting job, Ryan Collado will play before Carter, how's that?

Hey Ole, wasn't BPT a 2* coming out of High School? Explain that one Larry.

 

[Plinnius]

you mean his cousin Tyrone? and you don't need more weight as a corner if you don't let your receiver catch the ball you don't need to tackle. Deion Sanders made a living not tackling people

Deion Sanders didn't have to play against spread offenses that like to throw tons of screen passes to their receivers.

 

[lawrence21]

I wouldn't expect anything less from a poster who says CB's are the only DB's.

And I wouldn't expect anything less from a needle dick ass clown like yourself when we are talking about a cornerback and someone starts talking about a safety. You are a complete boner honer and most of you don't know what talent is because you have been watching Gopher football so long with its high school talent rejects

 

[eker0016]

Lawrence21. Look around. Not a single person on this website has commiserated or agreed with you about any of your views. Our two options are:

1. Lawrence21 is right and every other Gopher fan is wrong.
2. Lawrence21 is wrong and every other Gopher fan may have a point.

Admins: Are the racist comments not enough to get this guy banned from the site? This circular discussion is going nowhere and is exactly what I think the Gopherhole poll said needed to be cleaned up. Nobody would shed a tear!

 

[lawrence21]

racist?

what? thinking white players are not good is not racist, look at the make up of the college game or the NFL my friend. Check out today's draft and see the ratio of black to white players taken in the first round.

 

[Plinnius]

what? thinking white players are not good is not racist, look at the make up of the college game or the NFL my friend. Check out today's draft and see the ratio of black to white players taken in the first round.

And that's supposed to prove that the worst black player is better than the best white player?

 

[lawrence21]

Lawrence21. Look around. Not a single person on this website has commiserated or agreed with you about any of your views.

I said long ago that Gray was a program changing QB and would be starting sooner rather than later and the newspaper articles today and nearly everyone at the spring game agrees with me now. I don't mean he will be starting opening game but it will be soon.

 

[dpodoll68]

what? thinking white players are not good is not racist, look at the make up of the college game or the NFL my friend. Check out today's draft and see the ratio of black to white players taken in the first round.

Stating that there are more black players than white players in the NFL is not racist; it is a statement of fact.

However, "thinking white players are not good" or that player X is "not good" because he has a "lack of melanin" are absolutely 100% racist.

Not only is it racist, it is ignorant and ill-founded. Sure, nearly every RB, WR, and DB in the league is black, but, without doing a study and having the empirical data, I would venture to guess that there are at least as many whites as blacks at every other position on the field, including a great majority of QB and K/P. I watched the NFL Draft yesterday, and I couldn't help but notice that a melanin-deficient individual was the #1 overall pick, and that somebody thought enough of him to pay him $7 mil a year guaranteed, and as much as $13 mil a year if he performs. There were also many other whites drafted in the first two rounds.

Furthermore, these white players have all been inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame since 2000:

Gary Zimmerman
Roger Wehrli
Bruce Matthews
Gene Hickerson
Troy Aikman
Benny Friedman
Dan Marino
Steve Young
John Elway
Joe DeLamielleure
Dave Casper
Dan Hampton
Jim Kelly
Nick Buoniconti
Mike Munchak
Ron Yary
Jack Youngblood
Howie Long
Joe Montana
Dave Wilcox

Twenty melanin-deficient Hall of Famers created this decade alone. Therefore, your argument has no factual basis and you need to cease advancing it, immediately.

Lady, how has this assclown not been banned yet? He turns every thread to which he contributes into a platform to advance his racist agenda.