Best time to send Ben packing?

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Big Dawg

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Let's face it, Ben will not be coaching the Gophers in 2025/2026. Rarely are coaches fired in December so I'm guessing that won't happen. With the bottom 3 in the BIG(18) NOT going to the BIG tournament when the Gophers are locked into one of those bottom three slots that will be a good time to hand him the pink slip. It will most likely be with 2-3 games remaining in the regular season. Firing him then will give the Gophers a head start on a coaching search prior to other teams even finishing their season. I would target the top 3 coaches in any non P6 conference.
 


Roland Brooks said:
I think hey gets a 5th year.. No I didn’t think he deserves it.. I got a feeling with Asuma this year and a solid recruiting class next year Coyle will somehow justify one more year.. IMO.. Hope I am wrong
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Somehow he has convinced the 3 HS recruits that he is going to be here...so what you said may well be possible. I have no idea how they can drum up the NIL Ben would need to compete- considering his past track record. And... is the U willing to absorb another beating at the box office? If this year ends up being 12-15 wins, and Garcia gone, the season ticket base next year would again shrink.
 




Zeppelin Gopher said:
Yea it seems pretty likely, but why don't we wait until a few games of conference play have started. Sheesh
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I agree with you from the standpoint that I really like Ben Johnson as a person and I would love it if he could succeed here.

However, at this point when the team is struggling against North Texas, Yale and Cleveland State, and in no way passes any eye test, it is almost unavoidable to look into the future because the present tense is so bleak. This would be a whole different story if this were years ago and we are looking at 8-9 Frosh and Sophs out there learning on the go. We have about 50 years of experience on this team and must be one of the oldest in the country.

Right now the guy I am watching with the most interest is Asuma, not because he is really good yet but because he has potential. Potential makes you hang in there.
 



at another school, the boosters would be putting heat on the AD. but at MN, I don't think they have that level of boosters who can really influence decisions. If they do, they aren't coughing up any big money.

so it all comes down to Coyle. What does he expect from the program? being Coyle, he's not going to tell us anything.

at MN right now, the Football program is top dog. Volleyball, Men's Hockey, Women's Hockey, and maybe Women's Basketball all rank above Men's basketball. with Steveson coming back, Wrestling might even move above Men's hoops in the pecking order. and Women's Soccer is having a good season. so Men's basketball is off the radar.

If the Gophers somehow make the NCAA tournament, I think Johnson gets another year.

anything short of that - even an NIT bid - and the odds go way down.

but the bottom line is that most people right now don't really care. and the AD might fall into that category, too.
 




short ornery norwegian said:
at another school, the boosters would be putting heat on the AD. but at MN, I don't think they have that level of boosters who can really influence decisions. If they do, they aren't coughing up any big money.

so it all comes down to Coyle. What does he expect from the program? being Coyle, he's not going to tell us anything.

at MN right now, the Football program is top dog. Volleyball, Men's Hockey, Women's Hockey, and maybe Women's Basketball all rank above Men's basketball. with Steveson coming back, Wrestling might even move above Men's hoops in the pecking order. and Women's Soccer is having a good season. so Men's basketball is off the radar.

If the Gophers somehow make the NCAA tournament, I think Johnson gets another year.

anything short of that - even an NIT bid - and the odds go way down.

but the bottom line is that most people right now don't really care. and the AD might fall into that category, too.
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There is less than a 2% chance they make the NCAA ltournament. That’s a bullet point not even worth speculating on. Right now, even making the top 15 to qualify for the conference tournament seems llike quite a stretch.

They have to be working on some transition as we write whether that comes before season ends or when it’s over.

Coyle isn’t a dummy. He knows this is a disaster but the new world order isn’t in our favor.

I don’t see the recruits coming in having any impact the coach’s employment status. The recruits get either a major audition in the Big 18 or will have multiple spring offers . Little risk to them.
 

Gopher Ally said:
Coyle always has a short list in his pocket, however, With the emergence of Asuma and Ben putting together a nice recruiting class with Jefferson announcing yesterday, we’ll see what happens
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Yes, we'll see. However, the recruiting class is merely theory as to how good it is and Ben is in year 4 with the likelihood of a last place finish in the B1G and presently one of the worst offenses in all of college basketball.
The OP is correct in Ben being fired. The question isn't if, but when. Personally, I am all for yesterday, but Coyle is not a courageous AD and will look for a slimey way to get out of a mess of his own creation. Sometime in late January we should see the removal of Ben Johnson as head coach.
 

Holy Man said:
There is less than a 2% chance they make the NCAA ltournament. That’s a bullet point not even worth speculating on. Right now, even making the top 15 to qualify for the conference tournament seems llike quite a stretch.

They have to be working on some transition as we write whether that comes before season ends or when it’s over.

Coyle isn’t a dummy. He knows this is a disaster but the new world order isn’t in our favor.
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He seems to lack a spine. He allowed Joan Gabel to haul him around by the scruff of his neck. But, I guess he is still cashing big checks so....
 



short ornery norwegian said:
at another school, the boosters would be putting heat on the AD. but at MN, I don't think they have that level of boosters who can really influence decisions. If they do, they aren't coughing up any big money.

so it all comes down to Coyle. What does he expect from the program? being Coyle, he's not going to tell us anything.

at MN right now, the Football program is top dog. Volleyball, Men's Hockey, Women's Hockey, and maybe Women's Basketball all rank above Men's basketball. with Steveson coming back, Wrestling might even move above Men's hoops in the pecking order. and Women's Soccer is having a good season. so Men's basketball is off the radar.

If the Gophers somehow make the NCAA tournament, I think Johnson gets another year.

anything short of that - even an NIT bid - and the odds go way down.

but the bottom line is that most people right now don't really care. and the AD might fall into that category, too.
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Coyle's program is leaving behind a couple hundred grand per home game because the fans have stopped coming. It appears they are trying to make up the losses with the price of the concessions though...Hot dogs must be marked up about 7X.....
 

I see zero reason it helps you to fire him now. None of the assistants on the squad are B10 HC caliber. Zero reason he can't/shouldn't already be shopping around and making calls right now. You have no idea who for sure will be available or in demand at this point come spring and you're not going to get someone at a lower level to sign a contract with you to leave a month into the season. he coaches out the year or close to and you fire him at season's end with hopefully your target already in mind and having expressed interest in your job.

What in the hell does having a vacancy for 75% of the year do to help you? Tell some random coaches look how open our job is? The usual candidates will still be the usual candidates. Only question is if they can realize doing the math that with the new B10 deal they can spend more on a coach and that that will sell more season tickets/put butts in the seat. But that would take this University having someone with some common sense at the table to realize that athletics/athletic success (and large scale research dollars) is the straw that stirs the drink
 

short ornery norwegian said:
at another school, the boosters would be putting heat on the AD. but at MN, I don't think they have that level of boosters who can really influence decisions. If they do, they aren't coughing up any big money.

so it all comes down to Coyle. What does he expect from the program? being Coyle, he's not going to tell us anything.

at MN right now, the Football program is top dog. Volleyball, Men's Hockey, Women's Hockey, and maybe Women's Basketball all rank above Men's basketball. with Steveson coming back, Wrestling might even move above Men's hoops in the pecking order. and Women's Soccer is having a good season. so Men's basketball is off the radar.

If the Gophers somehow make the NCAA tournament, I think Johnson gets another year.

anything short of that - even an NIT bid - and the odds go way down.

but the bottom line is that most people right now don't really care. and the AD might fall into that category, too.
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being good and being top dog are very different things to an AD. mens BB is second in only that it is the biggest opportunity being missed for revenue, which is all that matters. Maybe Coyle has done the math and a cheap coach with no butts in the seats comes out ahead of a successful, highly paid coach with fans in the seats because everything is driven by TV revenue. The rest of the sports (aside from men's hockey, to be blunt, they shouldn't really care about or cater to as the only thing that matters at the end of the day to them is trying to run in the black or as close to it as you can while avoiding scandal and if you can be successful on top of that, that's just gravy. In spite of how bad they've been, the MBB team still makes the 2nd most revenue for the University and football pays for the rest (with men's hockey being slightly profitable from my memory but nowhere near at the same level as FB and MBB).
 

FinnGopher said:
Yes, we'll see. However, the recruiting class is merely theory as to how good it is and Ben is in year 4 with the likelihood of a last place finish in the B1G and presently one of the worst offenses in all of college basketball.
The OP is correct in Ben being fired. The question isn't if, but when. Personally, I am all for yesterday, but Coyle is not a courageous AD and will look for a slimey way to get out of a mess of his own creation. Sometime in late January we should see the removal of Ben Johnson as head coach.
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This team is hard to watch which is evident in the stands including half empty Barnyard. There is zero excitement, Ben has to pull a rabbit out of his hat to remain employed. No doubt Coyle is looking
 

Roland Brooks said:
I think hey gets a 5th year.. No I didn’t think he deserves it.. I got a feeling with Asuma this year and a solid recruiting class next year Coyle will somehow justify one more year.. IMO.. Hope I am wrong
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When CBJ was hired almost everyone bailed. Why wouldn't it happen again. Hawkins bailed after saying he wasn't going anywhere and likewise there's no guarantee Asuma stays.
 

GophersInIowa said:
If they had a bunch of young talented players that you feel like they could really build upon, then maybe you can give it one more try. But this team is full of seniors, it's time to win now.
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en the era of NIL, all of the young talented underclassmen would end up transferring to a blue blood school anyway
 


upnorthkid said:
I see zero reason it helps you to fire him now. None of the assistants on the squad are B10 HC caliber. Zero reason he can't/shouldn't already be shopping around and making calls right now. You have no idea who for sure will be available or in demand at this point come spring and you're not going to get someone at a lower level to sign a contract with you to leave a month into the season. he coaches out the year or close to and you fire him at season's end with hopefully your target already in mind and having expressed interest in your job.

What in the hell does having a vacancy for 75% of the year do to help you? Tell some random coaches look how open our job is? The usual candidates will still be the usual candidates. Only question is if they can realize doing the math that with the new B10 deal they can spend more on a coach and that that will sell more season tickets/put butts in the seat. But that would take this University having someone with some common sense at the table to realize that athletics/athletic success (and large scale research dollars) is the straw that stirs the drink
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I agree with this. At this point he's not coming back but firing him is pretty useless.

I think the only positive is he keeps recruiting and maybe 1-2 of those guys stick just because they like the school/NIL/New coach.

The only thing I do wonder, does an early firing boost the fan base who is pretty well out the door now? Maybe it's a Kickstarter to find$$ for a coach and kids now.

And for those worried about kids staying/leaving, 1. It's 2024, 3/4 of them won't stay anyway, and 2. Like 80% of the roster is graduating anyway. We can build quick, it's possible.
 

Gopher Ally said:
This team is hard to watch which is evident in the stands including half empty Barnyard. There is zero excitement, Ben has to pull a rabbit out of his hat to remain employed. No doubt Coyle is looking
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You are too kind. I have been to a couple of the games and I would be surprised if the actual attendance has been in excess of 3000 for either of them. They have announced crowds closer to 7000 to 8000 but the actual butts in the seats are far, far fewer.
 

leib0039 said:
I agree with this. At this point he's not coming back but firing him is pretty useless.

I think the only positive is he keeps recruiting and maybe 1-2 of those guys stick just because they like the school/NIL/New coach.

The only thing I do wonder, does an early firing boost the fan base who is pretty well out the door now? Maybe it's a Kickstarter to find$$ for a coach and kids now.

And for those worried about kids staying/leaving, 1. It's 2024, 3/4 of them won't stay anyway, and 2. Like 80% of the roster is graduating anyway. We can build quick, it's possible.
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yep your point #2 is particularly why it doesn't matter to me.

Possible returners:
Asuma
Grove
Reader
Betts
Mitchell
Sheridan
Plus his commits.

Asuma really the only one that matters and think he's more in it for the MN aspect rather than anything else so retention probably a bit easier with him.
 


another consideration:

IF the House settlement is approved, then starting next year, the U of MN will be paying out roughly $20-million a year in direct revenue sharing to athletes. the lion's share of that is expected to go to the major revenue-producing sports - i.e. Football and Men's Basketball.

on the plus side, that is money going to athletes that is in addition to NIL. so if a player likes the school, they may have less financial incentive to leave/transfer.

on the flip side, that money comes out of the U's Athletic budget. meaning $20-million less potentially for things like coaching salaries and/or buyouts. that means AD's are going to think twice when hiring and firing coaches.

in the end, if Johnson doesn't win, he's gone. nothing else changes that most basic fact.
 

leib0039 said:

This goes to my point about not really caring about who is coming back and the new coach quotidian being guys with
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I was just about to ask if another Ben from our neighbors in Iowa would consider coming across the border! Amazing how successful coaches at other levels can come in with an empty cupboard and produce immediate results. It’s not like he brought in a ton of big names or anything either.

www.desmoinesregister.com

Drake basketball tabs Ben McCollum, Northwest Missouri State coach, to lead program

Ben McCollum - who led Northwest Missouri State to four Division II national championships - is the new Drake men's basketball head coach.
www.desmoinesregister.com
 

upnorthkid said:
I see zero reason it helps you to fire him now. None of the assistants on the squad are B10 HC caliber. Zero reason he can't/shouldn't already be shopping around and making calls right now. You have no idea who for sure will be available or in demand at this point come spring and you're not going to get someone at a lower level to sign a contract with you to leave a month into the season. he coaches out the year or close to and you fire him at season's end with hopefully your target already in mind and having expressed interest in your job.

What in the hell does having a vacancy for 75% of the year do to help you? Tell some random coaches look how open our job is? The usual candidates will still be the usual candidates. Only question is if they can realize doing the math that with the new B10 deal they can spend more on a coach and that that will sell more season tickets/put butts in the seat. But that would take this University having someone with some common sense at the table to realize that athletics/athletic success (and large scale research dollars) is the straw that stirs the drink
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This is where I stand as well. I get that people are fed up and want the Johnson era over as soon as possible but firing him right now gains you nothing. The OP referenced firing him once the team was locked into a bottom 3 spot and out of the Big Ten Tournament.....I could see that being a viable solution.

I think he probably finishes the year unless as long as the team doesn't completely go in the tank or look like they have given up on him. Then you make the move after the season......but that doesn't mean Coyle can't be preparing for things now and getting all his ducks in a row to move quickly similar to how he did in football when they hired Fleck.
 


BrooklynBadger_Gopher_Fan said:
en the era of NIL, all of the young talented underclassmen would end up transferring to a blue blood school anyway
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Sometimes, yes. But I don't think the Gophers can live off of only transfers. It hasn't gone well so far. Still has to be some balance between development and transfers IMO.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
another consideration:

IF the House settlement is approved, then starting next year, the U of MN will be paying out roughly $20-million a year in direct revenue sharing to athletes. the lion's share of that is expected to go to the major revenue-producing sports - i.e. Football and Men's Basketball.

on the plus side, that is money going to athletes that is in addition to NIL. so if a player likes the school, they may have less financial incentive to leave/transfer.

on the flip side, that money comes out of the U's Athletic budget. meaning $20-million less potentially for things like coaching salaries and/or buyouts. that means AD's are going to think twice when hiring and firing coaches.

in the end, if Johnson doesn't win, he's gone. nothing else changes that most basic fact.
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You make some good points SON. However, the bolded statements above conflict to some degree.
There is the possibility that the U decides that the way forward will be to revenue share with athletes and stick with a lower paid coach like Ben with the idea that they move back towards building a program primarily with HS recruits as opposed to so much emphasis on the portal. The transfers get the big money as compared to most HS recruits (other than the 5* types.

I would presume that the 20 million the U has for revenue sharing will be on a par with other Big Ten schools but much richer than most other conferences could generate. Not sure- just putting that out there.

Bottom line- I could see this saving Ben, with the U claiming that they are going to reset strategy to attract better players and retain them.
 

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