Ben Johnson needs to figure out how Dawson Garcia and Jamison Battle will play together | Gopherhole

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ecoperson said:
Have you been a coach at any level before? Your simplistic analysis of the game makes me think that your 'coaching' has been limited to playing your grandfather's old Double Dribble game on the Commodore 64.
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If starting your best post player is simplistic, give me two helpings of simplistic.
 

ecoperson said:
If Payne fouls out with 5 minutes to play, who will get the rebound? CHESS.
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I'm not sweating who actually starts, but if the minutes are the same, why would Payne starting make him more likely to foul out with 5 minutes remaining?
 

gopherbadgerman said:
Worse players.
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This was sort of a song and dance we'd here when Pitino had early criticism. It's not his fault because the players just aren't as good. We can all agree this is the last year we're ok with that excuse?
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
This was sort of a song and dance we'd here when Pitino had early criticism. It's not his fault because the players just aren't as good. We can all agree this is the last year we're ok with that excuse?
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Yeah I’m good with that. I do think Pitino had better players though. The coach is responsible for getting players so I put blame on the coach for that. I’d say the same about Fleck. His fault we have no good WRs and a weak OL
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
This was sort of a song and dance we'd here when Pitino had early criticism. It's not his fault because the players just aren't as good. We can all agree this is the last year we're ok with that excuse?
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Wrong. Ben got an extension for last place so the motivation is to get to year 5
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I'm not sweating who actually starts, but if the minutes are the same, why would Payne starting make him more likely to foul out with 5 minutes remaining?
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I have always felt that refs are notoriously more whistle happy in the first five minutes of the game as they, themselves, feel out the teams. Having Payne miss those moments while also learning on the bench makes sense to me. Other coaches might have different philosophies.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
Wrong. Ben got an extension for last place so the motivation is to get to year 5
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Johnson got an extension to ensure that he had 5 years remaining on his contract to eliminate any concerns from recruits. It worked wonders as we got Evans and Christie.
 



ecoperson said:
I have always felt that refs are notoriously more whistle happy in the first five minutes of the game as they, themselves, feel out the teams. Having Payne miss those moments while also learning on the bench makes sense to me. Other coaches might have different philosophies.
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May as well keep battle and Garcia there too until comfort is reached with how the refs may call the game.
Seems to be the flow of the game is usually better at the start and later as things tighten up the refs do as well.
 

It is the start of the year. The players on your team have individual expectations. You want a happy locker room. The freshmen are willing to be more patient than an upper classman. Battle and Carrington were hurt to start the season. As a result Thompson and Ramberg started. It is easy to tell Ramberg Battle is starting. I believe in Ben's mind when Thompson no longer starts it means like Ramberg..he no longer plays.
Ben wants to play 7 guys. Payne will likely start soon. It's a process to start the season.

I would play Battle, Garcia, Cooper, Payne, and either Henley or Carrington in my first five....based on practice.
Ola-Joseph makes my 7. I'd play 8 and play Thompson in a Zone on the perimeter forcing their best three point shooter off his favorite spot....very tough shooting over him a zone. He's perimeter quick in a zone...he's bullied inside and/or lost playing man in general because he's not physical...does not have to be as a perimeter zone defender..
 
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Crappie said:
May as well keep battle and Garcia there too until comfort is reached with how the refs may call the game.
Seems to be the flow of the game is usually better at the start and later as things tighten up the refs do as well.
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We watch different basketball. Very often I do not see good flow by both teams to start a game. Often is teams feeling each other out, turnovers, and quick whistles. It usually settles in after the first media time out.

I can remember so many Gopher big men over the years picking up 2 quick fouls and having to sit for the majority of the 1st half...Murphy, Oturu, Lynch. So if you've got a young big man figuring things out still (think how many offensive fouls he had early already), I can follow bringing him in once the game settles in. When he gets some seasoning and can avoid fouls, I'm on board with starting him.

To your point on why not sit Garcia, Battle, Cooper...besides the fact you're being purposefully difficult, it's because they're not youngsters consistently prone to early foul trouble.
 

pharmacygopher said:
We watch different basketball. Very often I do not see good flow by both teams to start a game. Often is teams feeling each other out, turnovers, and quick whistles. It usually settles in after the first media time out.

I can remember so many Gopher big men over the years picking up 2 quick fouls and having to sit for the majority of the 1st half...Murphy, Oturu, Lynch. So if you've got a young big man figuring things out still (think how many offensive fouls he had early already), I can follow bringing him in once the game settles in. When he gets some seasoning and can avoid fouls, I'm on board with starting him.

To your point on why not sit Garcia, Battle, Cooper...besides the fact you're being purposefully difficult, it's because they're not youngsters consistently prone to early foul trouble.
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Let’s watch later in games and see if there are a lot of whistles, stopping play. It gets unwatchable for me, especially if the rest of the game flows well.
 



Crappie said:
May as well keep battle and Garcia there too until comfort is reached with how the refs may call the game.
Seems to be the flow of the game is usually better at the start and later as things tighten up the refs do as well.
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Those two are veterans, you fucking idiot.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
Of course!
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No. The rest of the B10 will get better as well, it’s not like the Gophers are the only program in the next 5 years who will get better.

-Purdue plays three young guards (they will be dominant in three / four years and most likely still pulling high level recruits
- MSU has Izzo
-Badgers consistently win and build up their players over the courses of their careers better than almost any school in the country (and maybe if Johnny Davis plays well in the NBA it could help their recruiting)
-Penn State (similar situation as the gophers
-Nebraskan- hot garbage
-Illinois- looks like they reloaded already and Underwood seems to be a heavyweight coach (with recruiting and transfer portal)
-Northwestern -(hot garbage) - good start to this year but Collins should be fired
-Maryland - looks like they are back to being a top 25 program and will most likely continue to rise over the next few years with their new regime
-Rutgers- lots of roster turnover this year but there is hope at the program
-Iowa - Fran has his this program running as a top 25 team every year, this won’t change 5 years from now
-Indiana- I believe a resurgence is coming with Mike Woodson on the sidelines and the boosters behind him *currently 11th in the country*
-Ohio State - up and down year to year, but their down years are still top 70 and their high years are top 10 (Ohio is a recruiting hotbed)
-Michigan- has been great under Howard and no reason they won’t be in 5 years
-UCLA and USC - are better than the gophers and Both will be in 5 years, especially UCLA and Mick Cronin

Potential things that may happen in the B10 that could help the Gophs:
-will the Gophs pre-conference schedule mirror the cream puff all stars of 2021-22….most likely
-IZZO retires
-UCLA and USC have issues joining and B10 finds two alternatives with weaker basketball schools
-Howard fired at Michigan due to drop off in quality and past on-court issues
-NBA changes 1 and done rule
-transfer portal
 

Henley was 2/11, Battle started a slow 5/17, those two shot a combined 25%, the others shot at around a 50% clip. Hopefully Battle's percent picks up and Henley practices shot selection more prudently especially if he's not making anything.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
No. The rest of the B10 will get better as well, it’s not like the Gophers are the only program in the next 5 years who will get better.

-Purdue plays three young guards (they will be dominant in three / four years and most likely still pulling high level recruits
- MSU has Izzo
-Badgers consistently win and build up their players over the courses of their careers better than almost any school in the country (and maybe if Johnny Davis plays well in the NBA it could help their recruiting)
-Penn State (similar situation as the gophers
-Nebraskan- hot garbage
-Illinois- looks like they reloaded already and Underwood seems to be a heavyweight coach (with recruiting and transfer portal)
-Northwestern -(hot garbage) - good start to this year but Collins should be fired
-Maryland - looks like they are back to being a top 25 program and will most likely continue to rise over the next few years with their new regime
-Rutgers- lots of roster turnover this year but there is hope at the program
-Iowa - Fran has his this program running as a top 25 team every year, this won’t change 5 years from now
-Indiana- I believe a resurgence is coming with Mike Woodson on the sidelines and the boosters behind him *currently 11th in the country*
-Ohio State - up and down year to year, but their down years are still top 70 and their high years are top 10 (Ohio is a recruiting hotbed)
-Michigan- has been great under Howard and no reason they won’t be in 5 years
-UCLA and USC - are better than the gophers and Both will be in 5 years, especially UCLA and Mick Cronin

Potential things that may happen in the B10 that could help the Gophs:
-will the Gophs pre-conference schedule mirror the cream puff all stars of 2021-22….most likely
-IZZO retires
-UCLA and USC have issues joining and B10 finds two alternatives with weaker basketball schools
-Howard fired at Michigan due to drop off in quality and past on-court issues
-NBA changes 1 and done rule
-transfer portal
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That's a good list. However, if Ben recruits each year as he has the past two, and if he proves that he can make players better- we will be right in the mix. The two frosh classes in a row of Christie, Evans, Betts, Carrington, Ola Joseph, Henley and Payne are pretty impressive. Keep that up.
 

bga1 said:
That's a good list. However, if Ben recruits each year as he has the past two, and if he proves that he can make players better- we will be right in the mix. The two frosh classes in a row of Christie, Evans, Betts, Carrington, Ola Joseph, Henley and Payne are pretty impressive. Keep that up.
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But no point guard. I like carrington (as a shooter), JOJ (strong 3 who can guard bigger and use his size / athleticism to his advantage), Payne (great so far but will need to develop an away from the basket game since evans will be the center), Henley (low on him based on what I’ve seen - after watching Purdue stomp on duke with a bunch of freshmen guards…there is a huge difference when watching their guards and Henley…it seems like they just get basketball and Henley doesn’t know how to play)
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
But no point guard. I like carrington (as a shooter), JOJ (strong 3 who can guard bigger and use his size / athleticism to his advantage), Payne (great so far but will need to develop an away from the basket game since evans will be the center), Henley (low on him based on what I’ve seen - after watching Purdue stomp on duke with a bunch of freshmen guards…there is a huge difference when watching their guards and Henley…it seems like they just get basketball and Henley doesn’t know how to play)
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A Mr. Basketball in Indiana and the other is a Gatorade POY playing better than Henley seems like it should be the case, especially since they are playing on a team with a very established front court. Henley has a ways to go, but I for one believe he is going to end up being one of our better players over the next 4 years.
 

Honestly I like TT starting the half, as long as Payne plays 25-30 and he's 10-15. TT a perimeter player, so use those first few minutes to get Dawson touches down low to get him going. Garcia can score from anywhere on the court, get him going early inside and that confidence should ec\xtend to the rest of the floor later in the game when Payne is in there.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
But no point guard. I like carrington (as a shooter), JOJ (strong 3 who can guard bigger and use his size / athleticism to his advantage), Payne (great so far but will need to develop an away from the basket game since evans will be the center), Henley (low on him based on what I’ve seen - after watching Purdue stomp on duke with a bunch of freshmen guards…there is a huge difference when watching their guards and Henley…it seems like they just get basketball and Henley doesn’t know how to play)
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Carrington to me hasn’t shown to be a so called shooter at any level.
 


GFBfan said:
A Mr. Basketball in Indiana and the other is a Gatorade POY playing better than Henley seems like it should be the case, especially since they are playing on a team with a very established front court. Henley has a ways to go, but I for one believe he is going to end up being one of our better players over the next 4 years.
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According to rivals team recruiting rankling for the class of 2022, Gophs were #41 and Purdue was #46. I’m speaking specifically of Braden Smith, a 6’0” 3 star recruit - Henley was a 3 star recruit as well, smith is lightning fast, and is a natural to the game of basketball…compared to another 3 star guard recruit (Henley) that we got
 

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