Ben Johnson needs to figure out how Dawson Garcia and Jamison Battle will play together | Gopherhole

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Gold Vision said:
I’m not. Just pointing out your reasoning for making the switch made no sense.
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Yes, it does. Pp is going to be better than TT all year, every game.

Why is cbj starting TT and the beginning of the second half?
 

Crappie said:
Yes, it does. Pp is going to be better than TT all year, every game.

Why is cbj starting TT and the beginning of the second half?
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Why does it matter? Treyton plays 7-12 mins a half. Does it matter if it’s at the start or in the middle? If anything, you’re supporting him more by being with better players.
 

Gopherfan84 said:
Why does it matter? Treyton plays 7-12 mins a half. Does it matter if it’s at the start or in the middle? If anything, you’re supporting him more by being with better players.
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Only matters if you want to have your best on the floor at the start of the game.
Why start battle? Garcia? Doesn’t matter, correct?
 

Crappie said:
Only matters if you want to have your best on the floor at the start of the game.
Why start battle? Garcia? Doesn’t matter, correct?
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Truthfully it doesn’t. It has more to do with rotations honestly. If you want your starters to play large minutes, you want the rest in the middle. They have to start the game. It mattered the most in the 60s when they didn’t sub and it’s really just held on. Coaches will say it’s not who starts, but finishes the game that matter.
 


Gopherfan84 said:
Truthfully it doesn’t. It has more to do with rotations honestly. If you want your starters to play large minutes, you want the rest in the middle. They have to start the game. It mattered the most in the 60s when they didn’t sub and it’s really just held on. Coaches will say it’s not who starts, but finishes the game that matter.
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Why start battle Garcia Cooper?
 

bga1 said:
I don't think this team has the players to drive hard to the rim at the moment. We have to pass it into the post and work from there. Post up Garcia or Payne every time down court and patiently work the ball inside- then outside.
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It's just so obvious, anytime the ball gets a touch inside it opens up the offense for everybody, how often does it happen, how many post players have any idea or ability to dump it back out.
 

Crappie said:
Why start battle Garcia Cooper?
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They play 30 plus minutes. In you want to avoid 15 min plus stretches, the break has to come in the middle of the half. So if you don’t start them it’d be hard to do that
 




Biggest issue with Battle and Garcia in the line up is on the defensive end. Garcia does not seem to be very interested in really guarding people and Battle struggles against smaller quicker players.
 

My biggest take-away from the week's games is that Garcia doesn't fit whatever the staff was trying to make his role be in So Cal. They really need to reevaluate how to use him, because he's one of our most talented guys, and we can't afford for him to be so ineffective.
 


Crappie said:
Only matters if you want to have your best on the floor at the start of the game.
Why start battle? Garcia? Doesn’t matter, correct?
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In this thought experiment, don’t you want to have your best on the court at *all* times? Assuming you’re not advocating for ironman basketball, I assume that the next best thing is to give your best players the most minutes. If they’re each going to play 30 minutes, does it matter which 10 minutes they don’t play? Is the segment from the under 12 to the under 8 timeout in the first half less important somehow?

I don’t have the answers. It does seem like it matters, but I can’t come up with solid objective reasons. “Because the other team does it that way” doesn’t seem like a great reason.
 



formerlybis said:
In this thought experiment, don’t you want to have your best on the court at *all* times? Assuming you’re not advocating for ironman basketball, I assume that the next best thing is to give your best players the most minutes. If they’re each going to play 30 minutes, does it matter which 10 minutes they don’t play? Is the segment from the under 12 to the under 8 timeout in the first half less important somehow?

I don’t have the answers. It does seem like it matters, but I can’t come up with solid objective reasons. “Because the other team does it that way” doesn’t seem like a great reason.
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Get the lead from the tip. And keep it until the final horn. Isn’t that the objective?
 

Crappie said:
Get the lead from the tip. And keep it until the final horn. Isn’t that the objective?
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No. The only objective is to have the lead at the end. Whether you storm out to a lead or come from behind is unimportant compared to outcome.
 

formerlybis said:
No. The only objective is to have the lead at the end. Whether you storm out to a lead or come from behind is unimportant compared to outcome.
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I prefer to lead. Always. But yes, the lead at the final horn is the objective.
Is getting behind early likely to lead to winning or losing?
 

formerlybis said:
No. The only objective is to have the lead at the end. Whether you storm out to a lead or come from behind is unimportant compared to outcome.
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Exactly. Of course the lead out of the gate is nice, but it’s far from one of the most important variables in success in the game. It’s more about important in regards to sub patterns and keeping guys fresh. Limiting runs, second chances on offense, and turnovers are significantly more important. Also defending without fouling and of course shooting well.
 

Rebounding seems to have picked up the last couple of games. Defense has, at times, also. Much work to do, no doubt. Blending the four freshmen with the three veterans, getting a few minutes here and there for TT and Samuels. Monday he gets the Hokies and according to ESPN matchup predictor has about 15% chance of success. Steel yourself beforehand for some angry tirades on here.
 

Crappie said:
I prefer to lead. Always. But yes, the lead at the final horn is the objective.
Is getting behind early likely to lead to winning or losing?
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Who doesn't always want to be in the lead? Nobody except the Globetrotters can do that. I honestly don't know if the team that leads at the first media timeout wins significantly more than 50% of the time, especially for closely-matched teams.

The other thing to say is that it's usually best 5 against best 5 at the start, and theoretically wouldn't that be the hardest time to build a lead? Wouldn't it be easier to have best 5 against not-best 5/tired best 5? Of course, the same is true for the opponent, so, really we might be talking about having #6 and #7 that are a very low drop-off from the other 5.
 

MennoSota said:
Garcia is not built to post up. He will end up 10 feet away from the rim. Payne is a different story.
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Garcia IS built to post up on smaller, less physical players. I would have liked him to go inside to use his height AND weight advantage on occasion... especially when UNLV was getting into foul trouble.
 

Crappie said:
Yes, it does. Pp is going to be better than TT all year, every game.

Why is cbj starting TT and the beginning of the second half?
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The staff is wanting to ensure that Payne does not get early fouls called. Starting Thompson allows them to see how the refs are calling the game before letting the youngster in.

Many coaches love having someone that can come in off the bench and DOMINATE the opposition's bench. It puts a lot of pressure on their defense and usually forces the opposing coach to scramble to put some starters back in.

Fans are playing checkers while coaches are playing chess.
 

formerlybis said:
Who doesn't always want to be in the lead? Nobody except the Globetrotters can do that. I honestly don't know if the team that leads at the first media timeout wins significantly more than 50% of the time, especially for closely-matched teams.

The other thing to say is that it's usually best 5 against best 5 at the start, and theoretically wouldn't that be the hardest time to build a lead? Wouldn't it be easier to have best 5 against not-best 5/tired best 5? Of course, the same is true for the opponent, so, really we might be talking about having #6 and #7 that are a very low drop-off from the other 5.
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Thanks for making my point. Pp should be starting, based on the best 5 comment.
 

Crappie said:
Changes can come at any whistle. Next?
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Fans are being far too simplistic. There are so many reasons why coaches make the decision as to who to start.
  • Some coaches nearly refuse to start first years.
  • Some coaches don't want a huge drop off when they go to the bench.
  • Some coaches run and attend practices so they actually know which unit plays most cohesively together.
  • Some coaches start players that may be less talented but also less mistake prone so the start the game without a run by the opponent.
  • Some coaches reward certain players for doing well in practice.
  • Some coaches penalize certain players for not doing well in practice.
  • Some coaches start certain players to exploit a weakness against certain teams.
  • Some coaches start certain players to try to limit a strength of the opponent.
The fact of the matter is that decisions as to who starts are made with much more knowledge of the situation than we, as fans, are usually aware. It most certainly isn't based solely on stats.
 

ecoperson said:
The staff is wanting to ensure that Payne does not get early fouls called. Starting Thompson allows them to see how the refs are calling the game before letting the youngster in.

Many coaches love having someone that can come in off the bench and DOMINATE the opposition's bench. It puts a lot of pressure on their defense and usually forces the opposing coach to scramble to put some starters back in.

Fans are playing checkers while coaches are playing chess.
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This team desperately needs pp on the floor. There are no rebound’s in chess. Or checkers.
 


Crappie said:
This team desperately needs pp on the floor. There are no rebound’s in chess. Or checkers.
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If Payne fouls out with 5 minutes to play, who will get the rebound? CHESS.
 

ecoperson said:
Fans are being far too simplistic. There are so many reasons why coaches make the decision as to who to start.
  • Some coaches nearly refuse to start first years.
  • Some coaches don't want a huge drop off when they go to the bench.
  • Some coaches run and attend practices so they actually know which unit plays most cohesively together.
  • Some coaches start players that may be less talented but also less mistake prone so the start the game without a run by the opponent.
  • Some coaches reward certain players for doing well in practice.
  • Some coaches penalize certain players for not doing well in practice.
  • Some coaches start certain players to exploit a weakness against certain teams.
  • Some coaches start certain players to try to limit a strength of the opponent.
The fact of the matter is that decisions as to who starts are made with much more knowledge of the situation than we, as fans, are usually aware. It most certainly isn't based solely on stats.
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If starting your best post player is simplistic, please give me two helpings of simplistic.
 


ecoperson said:
Fans are being far too simplistic. There are so many reasons why coaches make the decision as to who to start.
  • Some coaches nearly refuse to start first years.
  • Some coaches don't want a huge drop off when they go to the bench.
  • Some coaches run and attend practices so they actually know which unit plays most cohesively together.
  • Some coaches start players that may be less talented but also less mistake prone so the start the game without a run by the opponent.
  • Some coaches reward certain players for doing well in practice.
  • Some coaches penalize certain players for not doing well in practice.
  • Some coaches start certain players to exploit a weakness against certain teams.
  • Some coaches start certain players to try to limit a strength of the opponent.
The fact of the matter is that decisions as to who starts are made with much more knowledge of the situation than we, as fans, are usually aware. It most certainly isn't based solely on stats.
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You forgot the most important factor...who the bloggers think should start.
 

Crappie said:
If starting your best post player is simplistic, please give me two helpings of simplistic.
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Have you been a coach at any level before? Your simplistic analysis of the game makes me think that your 'coaching' has been limited to playing your grandfather's old Double Dribble game on the Commodore 64.
 

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