Ben Johnson is a Disaster

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howeda7 said:
He will be fired by April 1, 2025. Every day that passes between the end of this season and that day with him as the coach is a wasted day.
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Year 3 regular season in the books. 15-44. The improved year 3 included the most pathetic non-conference schedule in school history, one quad 1 win, 5-0 against weakling Wednesday teams and 4-11 against everyone else. And 1-4 finish. I'm afraid the above remains true.
 
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WindyCityGopher said:
I was sick of this shit 2 years ago, I was sick of this shit 1 year ago and I'm sick of this shit now. This program is the epitome of abject mediocrity, and it feels like it's never going to change.
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We are not mediocre. We haven’t been for a few years. We suck and fewer and fewer people care every year. Apparently including the people at the U themselves.
 

howeda7 said:
Year 3 regular season in the books. 15-44. The improved year 3 included the most pathetic non-conference schedule in school history, one quad 1 win, 5-0 against weakling Wednesday teams and 4-11 against everyone else. And 1-4 finish. I'm afraid the above remains true.
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That one Q1 win is the least in the conference. Teams like Air Force and Southern managed to have more.
 


The last two MBB games have reminder me of the WBB team when Lindsay Ehalen had lost that team.
 

WindyCityGopher said:
I was sick of this shit 2 years ago, I was sick of this shit 1 year ago and I'm sick of this shit now. This program is the epitome of abject mediocrity, and it feels like it's never going to change.
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WilliamsArenaGuy said:
We are not mediocre. We haven’t been for a few years. We suck and fewer and fewer people care every year. Apparently including the people at the U themselves.
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We are a smart head-coach hire away from success.

Tubby was solid hire at the time, definitely elevated the progam. Pitino was option 5 on the list of guys we wanted, still did OK around Tubby's level. Ben has tanked us a bit.

Need a guy to bring us back to that Pitino level and raise from there.
 


Well, this collapse pretty much guarantees we're in no better position today than where we were after Pitino got fired.

After the 2021 season rankings:
NET: 81
KPI: 77
SOR: 57
BPI: 75
KenPom: 62

Avg. Rankings: 70.4

This team:
NET: 87
KPI: 99
SOR: 81
BPI: 85
KenPom: 77

Avg. Rankings: 85.5

Worse across the board in every single metric. Brutal.
 



skiumah1 said:
We are a smart head-coach hire away from success.
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What does this mean though?

Hot mid-major coach coming off a tournament run like Dan Monson?
Aging legend like Tubby Smith?
Young coach with a famous last name like Richard Pitino?
Former alum like Ben Johnson?

It's just basketball. There's no secret sauce, you put the basketball into the hoop more than the other team.

When you're mediocre to bad for a quarter of a century, you need to start looking at systemic issues beyond coaching.
 

NateDawgUM said:
What does this mean though?

Hot mid-major coach coming off a tournament run like Dan Monson?
Aging legend like Tubby Smith?
Young coach with a famous last name like Richard Pitino?
Former alum like Ben Johnson?

It's just basketball. There's no secret sauce, you put the basketball into the hoop more than the other team.

When you're mediocre to bad for a quarter of a century, you need to start looking at systemic issues beyond coaching.
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Ben and Richard were too inexperienced and neither Dan nor Tubby saw meaningful Power 5 success after.
 

NateDawgUM said:
What does this mean though?

Hot mid-major coach coming off a tournament run like Dan Monson?
Aging legend like Tubby Smith?
Young coach with a famous last name like Richard Pitino?
Former alum like Ben Johnson?

It's just basketball. There's no secret sauce, you put the basketball into the hoop more than the other team.

When you're mediocre to bad for a quarter of a century, you need to start looking at systemic issues beyond coaching.
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Nah, it's just hiring a good coach. We haven't hired a good, young coach with a history of success since Haskins. Every coach since has been flawed in some way - flash-in-the-pan, old, never-was, and less-than-never-was.

It would be nice, for once, to hire a coach with a few years of success as a head coach, and who isn't in the AARP. Hopefully that happens in the next month, but I doubt it.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Nah, it's just hiring a good coach. We haven't hired a good, young coach with a history of success since Haskins. Every coach since has been flawed in some way - flash-in-the-pan, old, never-was, and less-than-never-was.

It would be nice, for once, to hire a coach with a few years of success as a head coach, and who isn't in the AARP. Hopefully that happens in the next month, but I doubt it.
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That’s where the systemic issues hold us back. Those types of coaches aren’t hired here for a number of reasons one of which includes our unwillingness to pay enough.
 



howeda7 said:
Year 3 regular season in the books. 15-44. The improved year 3 included the most pathetic non-conference schedule in school history, one quad 1 win, 5-0 against weakling Wednesday teams and 4-11 against everyone else. And 1-4 finish. I'm afraid the above remains true.
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I would say they improved a lot but if they go sub .500 in the conference next year, he is gone.
 

CentralGopher said:
That’s where the systemic issues hold us back. Those types of coaches aren’t hired here for a number of reasons one of which includes our unwillingness to pay enough.
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This is patently untrue. There were way better candidates who would've won here that are working elsewhere right now for significantly less than what the U pays Johnson.
 

CentralGopher said:
That’s where the systemic issues hold us back. Those types of coaches aren’t hired here for a number of reasons one of which includes our unwillingness to pay enough.
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Nah. People try to make it more complicated than it is, which is the simple fact that we haven't made a good hire in 38 years.
 

Some guy said:
I would say they improved a lot but if they go sub .500 in the conference next year, he is gone.
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Yep, this year was good enough to earn year 4 but his seat should absolutely be warm heading into next season and team will almost certainly need to make the NCAA tournament next year for Johnson to not get fired.

Only way I see a move being made before the end of next season would be if there is a mass exodus of players after this season which would lead to year 4 being a whole new team and starting over.
 

Does anyone else see that Ben is on the former player track to bounced town? We just saw this with Lindsay Whalen in the WBB team. A coach, too stubborn to change their ways, loses the confidence of the players which makes the team and program suffer.
 

This is not the collapse you guys were looking for and Ben will be back next year. The average prediction here was 9 wins and he has met that. A run in the Big Ten tournament would be gravy. From here the trajectory looks good.

If you guys are serious about making it a better program then we should skip chatting about Ben and take the first (and most important step) of firing Coyle.
 


multiple things can be true - or accurate - at the same time.

--The Gophers were better than last season.
--based on pre-season polls and predictions, the Gophers met most people's expectations or exceeded them.
--at times the Gophers played very well this season
--at other times, they played very poorly
--the team finished the season very poorly

in the end, you are what your record says you are - and the Gophers are the 10th-place team in a 14-team league.

I don't do predictions - but here's a prediction - Ben Johnson will be the head coach of the Gophers for 1 or 2 more seasons. barring some really significant accomplishments, he will either be let go after the '24-25 season or the '25-26 season.

and then the whole carousel starts all over again.
 

CPTMidnight said:
This is not the collapse you guys were looking for and Ben will be back next year. The average prediction here was 9 wins and he has met that. A run in the Big Ten tournament would be gravy. From here the trajectory looks good.

If you guys are serious about making it a better program then we should skip chatting about Ben and take the first (and most important step) of firing Coyle.
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9 wins are 9 wins but let's not pretend like 9 wins in an extremely down year with 7 of those wins against bottom to mid tier opponents is impressive.

The goal here should always be to make the tournament, Ben and staff don't get a pass on 7 win improvement when they shouldn't have been that bad last year to begin with.

I agree he won't be fired, but disagree on the fact that he should be, we were blown out...by Northwestern- a sentence you would never hear under previous two regimes
 


CPTMidnight said:
This is not the collapse you guys were looking for and Ben will be back next year. The average prediction here was 9 wins and he has met that. A run in the Big Ten tournament would be gravy. From here the trajectory looks good.

If you guys are serious about making it a better program then we should skip chatting about Ben and take the first (and most important step) of firing Coyle.
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Trajectory looks good? We're 3 years in and the program is no doubt in a worse place than when he took over. There are a ton of coaches at even the mid-major level that would be a significant upgrade.
 

LongLiveMilesTarver said:
If the majority of the players enter the portal there is really no point in keeping him around if he can't even keep his guys this year.
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I'm not sure it will be a majority or "mass exodus" but I expect at least two starters, Fox and JOJ to leave. That alone will make significant improvement next year a reach without an unlikely HR in the portal.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
vmultiple things can be true - or accurate - at the same time.

--The Gophers were better than last season.
--based on pre-season polls and predictions, the Gophers met most people's expectations or exceeded them.
--at times the Gophers played very well this season
--at other times, they played very poorly
--the team finished the season very poorly

in the end, you are what your record says you are - and the Gophers are the 10th-place team in a 14-team league.

I don't do predictions - but here's a prediction - Ben Johnson will be the head coach of the Gophers for 1 or 2 more seasons. barring some really significant accomplishments, he will either be let go after the '24-25 season or the '25-26 season.

and then the whole carousel starts all over again.
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I still honestly think he could be gone after this year if the following happens:

1. Another terrible performance flaming out in the BT tourney
2. No invite to a postseason tourney
3. 2-3 of our main players leave (Garcia, Hawkins, Christie, Payne...)

If that happens (and it is certainly a possibility), there is absolutely no reason to keep doing this. A lot of people say he has earned another year. Why? Because he set the expectations so low that we are satisfied finishing 10th? Given the schedule and the opponents, this season is another abject failure if the three three things above happen. I feel like the only way he 'deserves' another year is if he comes back with largely the same roster. Otherwise, we're just wasting time.

And I say all this saying I did have a lot of fun this year. There were some great games and performances. I attended and rewatched games multiple times because my passion and thirst was back. But you have to take the entire season into account at the end. And is spite of the good, the bad is still winning out by a considerable margin.
 

Gophers7633 said:
Trajectory looks good? We're 3 years in and the program is no doubt in a worse place than when he took over. There are a ton of coaches at even the mid-major level that would be a significant upgrade.
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You get to include the preceding season when judging Coyle, not Ben. The trajectory with Coyle is horrible.

If we are judging Ben - he started with no players and no wins the start the trajectory is up.

I am not defending Ben here (mind you). Just saying that his trajectory is up over the course of 3 years. Saying anything less is just saying - Ben hurt my feelings, He should win more games, I hate Ben, we all need to be mean to Ben. Seriously, who has time for that.
 


CPTMidnight said:
You get to include the preceding season when judging Coyle, not Ben. The trajectory with Coyle is horrible.

If we are judging Ben - he started with no players and no wins the start the trajectory is up.

I am not defending Ben here (mind you). Just saying that his trajectory is up over the course of 3 years. Saying anything less is just saying - Ben hurt my feelings, He should win more games, I hate Ben, we all need to be mean to Ben. Seriously, who has time for that.
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I mean, yeah his trajectory is up because it was literally at the lowest point possible, so I mean, congrats? You don't think you're defending Ben, but saying stuff like he had no players, is defending him. Utah State's coach has a completely brand new team, and they seem to be doing okay.

The program is worse off than when he took over, that's a fact and not arguable. He's in charge of this program. I don't hate Ben, but his tenure has been awful. The only thing that has saved him, is he has decreased the expectation level so low, that even a below avg season is considered merit to bring him back.
 

kix4kix said:
9 wins are 9 wins but let's not pretend like 9 wins in an extremely down year with 7 of those wins against bottom to mid tier opponents is impressive.

The goal here should always be to make the tournament, Ben and staff don't get a pass on 7 win improvement when they shouldn't have been that bad last year to begin with.

I agree he won't be fired, but disagree on the fact that he should be, we were blown out...by Northwestern- a sentence you would never hear under previous two regimes
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First off to your last line....Northwestern is not a bad team. I get the perception of Northwestern in general but this is a team that beat both Purdue and Illinois this year and will get a double bye in the Big Ten Tournament. Disappointing game last night to be sure but have heard a few people act like losing to Northwestern is unacceptable like they are some garbage team and that simply is not the case.

To the rest, nobody is pretending like 9 wins is some massive accomplishment. The results this year were good enough to justify giving it another year.

There were things to like about this team and this season and there absolutely are things that will have to improve for them to take the next step. Going to be a very interesting off season for sure.
 

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