Ben Johnson is a Disaster

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howeda7 said:
Well you're a dead ringer for them. That's not a compliment. So put me on ignore and move on. If you can't disagree over something without pathetic name calling there's no point in engaging you.
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I've read a number of Rockraven's posts and there is no similarity at all. I don't know Diehard. I know that you told a bunch of people that I was Rockraven because you enjoy spreading lies.

Why the hell would I want to "engage" with you?
 

WoodburyTim said:
I can’t believe you guys can keep doing this over and over and don’t get tired of it. We lose and the people who aren’t fans of Ben say I told you so and when we win the Ben fans say they told us so.

Oddly we are a .500 team and everybody says they are right.
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Flip a coin.
 

I don't know how much of the Nebraska game you can put on Ben. the effort has to come from the players, and against Nebraska, they were getting beat to every loose ball, every 50/50 ball, every long rebound - except Fox.

now, you can say it's the job of the coach to make sure the players are ready to play - but the effort still has to come from the players.

that's one thing that drives me nuts about hockey. every time the Wild get smoked in a game, some player comes out after the game and says "we didn't have good energy tonight." as if 'energy' is some mysterious commodity that just comes and goes.
 

I think we have people evaluating Johnson on the year this is in, that the program has not met expectations for that timeliness. Related, did it have to crash. That has reasoning to it.


But if you change the evaluation to CBJ's ability to recruit in-state and then how do they do, then nobody can evaluate that until next season.

So the critics would agree nobody can know until next year.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I don't know how much of the Nebraska game you can put on Ben. the effort has to come from the players, and against Nebraska, they were getting beat to every loose ball, every 50/50 ball, every long rebound - except Fox.

now, you can say it's the job of the coach to make sure the players are ready to play - but the effort still has to come from the players.

that's one thing that drives me nuts about hockey. every time the Wild get smoked in a game, some player comes out after the game and says "we didn't have good energy tonight." as if 'energy' is some mysterious commodity that just comes and goes.
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The energy comments are dumb by players, coaches, fans, and media. One team is trying to stop another team from doing what they want to do, while the other is doing the same. The Gophers played with energy and the stats show it. Nebraska made more shots and scored 18 more points. "Energy" is simply a filler for not having a better answer.

Stats

NE made 6 more baskets. 3 were 3's. That 15 points and they had 3 more FT's.
They had one more offensive rebound and 6 more total rebounds (MN missed more shots).
MN had 2 more turnovers.

NE shot 39% and MN 31%.

It was a defensive game and Nebraska hit more shots. The "energy" was there.

We lost to a team that is 17-1 at home!
 


MaxyJR1 said:
The energy comments are dumb by players, coaches, fans, and media. One team is trying to stop another team from doing what they want to do, while the other is doing the same. The Gophers played with energy and the stats show it. Nebraska made more shots and scored 18 more points. "Energy" is simply a filler for not having a better answer.

Stats

NE made 6 more baskets. 3 were 3's. That 15 points and they had 3 more FT's.
They had one more offensive rebound and 6 more total rebounds (MN missed more shots).
MN had 2 more turnovers.

NE shot 39% and MN 31%.

It was a defensive game and Nebraska hit more shots. The "energy" was there.

We lost to a team that is 17-1 at home!
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Basketball is one sport where players can definitely "feed" off the crowd a little more than others. See it happen all the time where the crowd will get going and a home team will go on a big run.

But yeah, overall the energy thing is just a way coaches/players tend to try and explain an off night.

Nebraska is really really good at home and unfortunately our guys were not able to hit the big shots yesterday in order to get the road victory.
 

Not that anyone's said this, but laying an egg on the road is not a "my coach is a disaster" offense. Every team in this league has had bad days this season.

My beef has been errors of approach in close games. If you're going to win a cribbage tournament, you're going to have to play things correctly toward the end of a close game. In a league where teams are bunched up like they are, it's a thin line between a top-four finish and the second division. That's where coaching salaries are earned.
 

beatles said:
This thread needs to die. He’s clearly no longer the disaster we previously thought he was.
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This may even be the harder spot. If he was a disaster we move on. But we are obviously in a better spot than we were last year or two years ago and marginally better than 3 years ago under Pitino. He has earned himself another year, but a little afraid that a better Big10 top to bottom may leave us about where we started 4 years ago.
 

WoodburyTim said:
This may even be the harder spot. If he was a disaster we move on. But we are obviously in a better spot than we were last year or two years ago and marginally better than 3 years ago under Pitino. He has earned himself another year, but a little afraid that a better Big10 top to bottom may leave us about where we started 4 years ago.
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We're still in purgatory. Make no mistake, the objective is not for the coach to keep his job or for him and the program to barely match his predecessor four years into his tenure after having the fans endure absolute hell in his first couple seasons. The objective when you hire a coach is for him to take your program to new heights or at least match what you consider to be its glory years. That's still a long ways off from where we sit now.
 



Bad Gopher said:
We're still in purgatory. Make no mistake, the objective is not for the coach to keep his job or for him and the program to barely match his predecessor four years into his tenure after having the fans endure absolute hell in his first couple seasons. The objective when you hire a coach is for him to take your program to new heights or at least match what you consider to be its glory years. That's still a long ways off from where we sit now.
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You are 100% right about the objective with any coaching hire but the timeline the AD has for achieving that objectives and the benchmarks he/she expects the coach to hit along the way may be very different then what fans expect/demand.
 



MaxyJR1 said:
The energy comments are dumb by players, coaches, fans, and media. One team is trying to stop another team from doing what they want to do, while the other is doing the same. The Gophers played with energy and the stats show it. Nebraska made more shots and scored 18 more points. "Energy" is simply a filler for not having a better answer.

Stats

NE made 6 more baskets. 3 were 3's. That 15 points and they had 3 more FT's.
They had one more offensive rebound and 6 more total rebounds (MN missed more shots).
MN had 2 more turnovers.

NE shot 39% and MN 31%.

It was a defensive game and Nebraska hit more shots. The "energy" was there.

We lost to a team that is 17-1 at home!
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As frustrating as the loss was, I didn't really see a lack of effort as being the cause of the loss. Cam Christie was 3-12 and we couldn't hit outside shots. Nebraska is a good team at home. Gary couldn't miss from 3. Nebraska was contesting everything and double-teaming every post touch. We didn't quit playing, even when we were down 20. I still believe in this team. I still think we have a chance to make the tournament, but we have work to do. On to the next one
 



MNVCGUY said:
You are 100% right about the objective with any coaching hire but the timeline the AD has for achieving that objectives and the benchmarks he/she expects the coach to hit along the way may be very different then what fans expect/demand.
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A reminder that the fans are the customers and the program's benefactors. Customer expectations should be the most important consideration here.
 

Gopher_In_NYC said:
A Go fund Me to get the mods to delete it?

I’d throw in 20 bucks
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Can we turn it into a thread to mock the Lions offensive coordinator? Who turns down a head coaching job to stay with the Detroit Lions? Loser. :cool:
 


I'll change the title of the thread when Ben is no longer a disaster.

This would still be a down season in the Pitino, Tubby, and Monson era. But Ben has lowered expectations so much for some, that this season is now being treated as some sort of an accomplishment.

BJ still needs at least a couple of more wins just to make the NIT. Ben's overall body of work over 3 seasons is still a disaster, no matter how much some want to pretend it's not.
 

I know you hate the fact that the Gophers have 8 BIG wins thus far, That has to really be painful for you in your quest to get rid of Ben. Suck it up Buttercup! Ben is going to be around another year if not more! Sleep well.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
This would still be a down season in the Pitino, Tubby, and Monson era. But Ben has lowered expectations so much for some, that this season is now being treated as some sort of an accomplishment.
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Come on dude really? If we finish .500 or better in conference play this would in no way represent a down season during the previous coaches tenures. Pitino finished over .500 in conference play 1 time in 8 years. Tubby finished exactly .500 twice in his 6 years. Monson managed to pull off .500 or better in conference play 3 times over his 8 years.

This season absolutely won't equal up to the best seasons those coaches had but it will be far from representing a down year for those coaches.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Come on dude really? If we finish .500 or better in conference play this would in no way represent a down season during the previous coaches tenures. Pitino finished over .500 in conference play 1 time in 8 years. Tubby finished exactly .500 twice in his 6 years. Monson managed to pull off .500 or better in conference play 3 times over his 8 years.

This season absolutely won't equal up to the best seasons those coaches had but it will be far from representing a down year for those coaches.
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Not trying to be argumentative here or disparage this year's team, but obviously not all records are created the same. It's tough to compare one year's conference record against another given overall strength of the conference and the unbalanced opposition (who you played twice, etc). Pitino's last year finished with an NET only three slots higher than the current ranking of this year's team despite a horrible conference record. Is the NET a better indicator of a team's overall success? I guess that's a different debate, but perhaps it speaks better to the strength of the opposition than overall record?
 

golfing18now said:
Not trying to be argumentative here or disparage this year's team, but obviously not all records are created the same. It's tough to compare one year's conference record against another given overall strength of the conference and the unbalanced opposition (who you played twice, etc). Pitino's last year finished with an NET only three slots higher than the current ranking of this year's team despite a horrible conference record. Is the NET a better indicator of a team's overall success? I guess that's a different debate, but perhaps it speaks better to the strength of the opposition than overall record?
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That year was largely skewed because there was basically no nonconference games. If you recall there was strange things like Gophers playing the same team twice in a row. The conference got a bunch of teams in the tournament but only 1 team made it past the 2nd round.
 

golfing18now said:
Not trying to be argumentative here or disparage this year's team, but obviously not all records are created the same. It's tough to compare one year's conference record against another given overall strength of the conference and the unbalanced opposition (who you played twice, etc). Pitino's last year finished with an NET only three slots higher than the current ranking of this year's team despite a horrible conference record. Is the NET a better indicator of a team's overall success? I guess that's a different debate, but perhaps it speaks better to the strength of the opposition than overall record?
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All seasons are not created equally but I stand by the assertion that this current season is not the equivalent of a down season for the 3 previous coaches here.
 


MNVCGUY said:
Come on dude really? If we finish .500 or better in conference play this would in no way represent a down season during the previous coaches tenures. Pitino finished over .500 in conference play 1 time in 8 years. Tubby finished exactly .500 twice in his 6 years. Monson managed to pull off .500 or better in conference play 3 times over his 8 years.

This season absolutely won't equal up to the best seasons those coaches had but it will be far from representing a down year for those coaches.
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The opposition has more so to do with what our current B1G record is than anything else. We finished with 9 B1G wins in 2019 and if we get to 10 this season, nobody would suggest this team is better than that one. We're still slightly behind in KenPom the team that got Pitino fired. I would consider the year that got Pitino fired as a "down year". I'm not really sure how else to categorize it. I'm glad about the progress we've made, but seasons like this shouldn't be acceptable going forward.
 

MNVCGUY said:
All seasons are not created equally but I stand by the assertion that this current season is not the equivalent of a down season for the 3 previous coaches here.
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In my head, as an irrational fan, every year we don't make the tournament is a down year.

That said, if you plotted the season out on a graph with all the seasons of the last three coaches, this is probably better than over 1/2 of them.

So I kind of think you're both right.
 

Gophers7633 said:
The opposition has more so to do with what our current B1G record is than anything else. We finished with 9 B1G wins in 2019 and if we get to 10 this season, nobody would suggest this team is better than that one. We're still slightly behind in KenPom the team that got Pitino fired. I would consider the year that got Pitino fired as a "down year". I'm not really sure how else to categorize it. I'm glad about the progress we've made, but seasons like this shouldn't be acceptable going forward.
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Obviously if this is the high water mark that is a problem but if the team is consistently finishing at least .500 in conference play that would represent a level of success this program has not experienced for quite some time.

The team went 6-14 in conference play and the trajectory of the program was not good in Pitino's 8th year which is why he got fired. I could give a crap what KenPom says, the program is trending in the right direction after 2 rough years. As long as that continues Ben will be the coach, if the team slips back in the other direction he will get fired.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Obviously if this is the high water mark that is a problem but if the team is consistently finishing at least .500 in conference play that would represent a level of success this program has not experienced for quite some time.

The team went 6-14 in conference play and the trajectory of the program was not good in Pitino's 8th year which is why he got fired. I could give a crap what KenPom says, the program is trending in the right direction after 2 rough years. As long as that continues Ben will be the coach, if the team slips back in the other direction he will get fired.
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I agree the program was not in a good place when Pitino got fired, I'm not saying we should have kept him. But from a quality standpoint, the Pitino team performed better than this one has at this point. Both in terms of results and performance.

I'm fine giving Ben another year, I do think he deserves it at this point, but there also needs to be some perspective.
 

Gophers7633 said:
I agree the program was not in a good place when Pitino got fired, I'm not saying we should have kept him. But from a quality standpoint, the Pitino team performed better than this one has at this point. Both in terms of results and performance.

I'm fine giving Ben another year, I do think he deserves it at this point, but there also needs to be some perspective.
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I mean that's just not true. They won 6 games and 2 games after February. I don't care what the computer says. Anyone with eyes could see what the team was.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
I mean that's just not true. They won 6 games and 2 games after February. I don't care what the computer says. Anyone with eyes could see what the team was.
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I'm not disagreeing they played like shit down the stretch. But in the totality of the season they performed better and had better results. Just look at both team sheets. If we win @NW or @Ill that will go a long way in helping this team. Don't forget that team beat an eventual #1 seed and two #2 seeds.
 

Gophers7633 said:
I'm not disagreeing they played like shit down the stretch. But in the totality of the season they performed better and had better results. Just look at both team sheets. If we win @NW or @Ill that will go a long way in helping this team. Don't forget that team beat an eventual #1 seed and two #2 seeds.
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And those teams didn't do anything in the tournament because the conference wasn't good.
 

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