Ben Johnson is a Disaster

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bc2211 said:
Honestly way too early to say one way or another. He’s basically had 9 games with freshman this year, since last year was full of senior transfers. Anyone who’s transferred in as an upperclassman probably won’t develop into a different caliber player than they are on day 1. I also disagree about Battle - I think he’s just catching up this season and doesn’t have as bright of a green light as last year, and imo he was always a streaky volume shooter with below average athleticism for the big ten.

On the positive side, JOJ looks like he’s taken a stride. But we are going to need a lot more time before we can assess BJ’s ability to develop. This class is full of three star players, some of whom shouldn’t be under the microscope yet. I think it’s possible Carrington and Payne can make noticeable improvements like JOJ’s yet this year. Henley might need more time. Unfortunately we won’t know until they are juniors, but if JOJ is rising into a 12&6 guy, I’m excited about the future possibilities.
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JOJ looks like he is taking big strides as an individual player because he is just taking matters into his own hands. That's why he has scored pretty well but has zero assists. He is just a better playground player than others that we have. The problem is that none of it (not just him) is fitting into a system.
Garcia and Battle are just trying to make plays for themselves for the most part. Cooper is great at finding people but he doesn't have the speed to break a defense down and make them scramble. It may well be that what Ben is doing would work- with a different set of guys.

What he did the first half with Payne on both ends of the floor was serious basketball malpractice. I like some adjustments he made in the second with Payne living in the paint a little bit more- on both ends.
 

leib0039 said:
So lot of things.

1. Johnson has been an absolute train wreck this year. We have no offensive scheme, our defense is a total joke, we cant rebound, we can shoot FT and we arent even putting in effort (JOJ and Payne aside). And Ben goes into the presser like a sad little puppy. BUCK UP AND DO SOMETHING. Those are all squarely on the coach.
2. We missed on every single coach we thought about (Dutcher, Smith, Nedved, Muss). It is pitiful that we ended up with a guy who couldnt get a job in the MAC.
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I don't think we missed on any of those 4- we never swung. They had Dutcher set up to come in town and they cancelled and picked Ben. They never called Muss. I'm not sure what the process was with Smith and Medved but I would guess either would have taken the gig.
 

howeda7 said:
Coyle not at least making a phone call to Musselman is unacceptable if true.
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It's true.

But look, in Coyle's defense, if Gabel told him it wasn't happening that way, then there was no sense in making the call. My view today is that Gabel is not a great AD for a winning sports program. When Ben signed Evans and Christie I was thinking she might be a better AD than I thought. I am a fan and I reserve the right to judge daily based on results. :) Right now Ben and the decision to go with him are living fully on the thread of who he has recruited.

I have seen nearly zero in terms of roster construction (in the age of transfers) and on court play this year that lead me to have confidence that we are going to get his done
 
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MaxyJR1 said:
He needs significant improvement this season or I would fire after this year. MBB is next in line to Football and in 2022-23 you can't let this string out.

They don't play as a team. Seriously they should be required to pass 5 times each possession like youth coaches sometimes require. They have some excellent local talent in the freshmen and I'd hate to blow their 4 years with this mess.

If Ben can't get this team improved, the right hire could be able to keep those local kids on board.

They've also played Purdue and Michigan who are expected to be in the top 4 of the conference, so the rest of the season is huge.
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I don't necessarily disagree, but I think there is close to a 0% chance that happens. Evans and Christie buy him next year. Plus the fact that Coyle already has a VB coach to replace and Lindsey is probably ahead of Ben on the firing line as well.
 



combes1 said:
I like a couple of the Minnesota freshmen. Good building blocks. Should never be down 30 to Michigan at home, though. Illinois often has four freshmen on the court together plus Dainja who is essentially a freshman in experience. Lost the entire starting five from last year and 85% of the scoring. Reloaded with freshmen and transfers plus reserves from last year. Playing freshmen and transfers like Minnesota and Illinois are is more the norm these days than the exception. Got to get the right guys and coach them up.
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Michigan was shooting at a ridiculous clip last night. Doesn't mean that the defense was good. It wasn't. But they don't shoot that well 90% of the games. They just got hot last night.

Also....Illinois's four true freshman were all ranked higher than Payne....our highest ranked recruit. You can't compare the two. They brought in three impact transfers as well. Not sure what to tell you.....but Illinois is a different level program than Minnesota right now. We don't have that luxury.
 


Holy Man said:
That was never going to happen because of the cost and family history here. Muss has done a great job coaching but he still gives off that flare of something a little shady going on in the background feel. The U is never going for that and it’s almost the only thing I am okay with in the U administration.
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I agree, except everything shady is now OK. So who cares?
 

WoodburyTim said:
The people that keep talking about this year being about development of the freshmen are pretending this is college basketball of 10 to 20 years ago. Very little chance all of our freshmen stick around. You think Payne doesn't have multiple people close to him telling him to get the heck out of here so he can get coached and play in meaningful games?
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I agree. Ben needs to move Payne into the starting line-up ASAP. Bench Garcia.
 



howeda7 said:
I don't necessarily disagree, but I think there is close to a 0% chance that happens. Evans and Christie buy him next year. Plus the fact that Coyle already has a VB coach to replace and Lindsey is probably ahead of Ben on the firing line as well.
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Lindsey is more proven and brought in a great class that is competitive. I agree after 2 years is probably not an option, but he better find a stud PG soon.
 

bga1 said:
I don't think we missed on any of those 4- we never swung. They had Dutcher set up to come in town and they cancelled and picked Ben. They never called Muss. I'm not sure what the process was with Smith and Medved but I would guess either would have taken the gig.
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We didn't miss on Smith for sure. He would have taken it. 100%. And he wouldn't have cost any more than we're paying Ben.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
as Bad Gopher said much earlier in the thread, it's hard to comprehend the difference between last year and this year.

Last year's team had limited athletic ability, but they worked hard and for the most part, played competitive games. they were a team you could root for.

this year's team just looks lost at times. on paper, they have more athletic ability, but at this point it is not translating to results on the floor. That rests on the players, but also on the coaches.

so the conundrum - how can it be that Johnson seemed to be a better coach with lesser talent, and now looks like a worse coach with better talent?

idea - sometimes, the whole is less than the sum of the parts. for whatever reason, it seems as if this year's group of players just doesn't fit together. a group of players does not always equal a "team." there are intangible components to team play, and right now, this group is lacking those intangibles. is it personalities, work ethic, off-court differences? I don't know.

all I know is something is wrong.
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I do agree they appeared more locked in last year. I am not a huge "grit" guy, I think that generally means you arent talented, no one ever calls KD/Steph/Lebron gritty, they save that for Jevon Carter or Luke Ridnour. Anyway, I do not subscribe to the site ShotQuality this year so I can't pull it but there was a lot of advanced stats that we essentially got "lucky" last year. IE took terrible shots regularly, they just happened to go in, which helped us win/stay competitive in some games. This year we have bad shooters and those shots are not going in, so thus blowouts happen. But last year kind of covered up a bad offensive scheme by having guys who made tough shots.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Lindsey is more proven and brought in a great class that is competitive. I agree after 2 years is probably not an option, but he better find a stud PG soon.
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Yes. But she's also had a long time to turn it into something. Feels like an NCAA or bust season for her.
 



I am expecting the opposite trajectory for this season compared to last--working through growing pains and melding as a team as the season goes on, versus lack of talent/potential being exposed as other teams find their stride. If that doesn't happen, I'll reassess how I feel about the staff.
 

bga1 said:
I don't think we missed on any of those 4- we never swung. They had Dutcher set up to come in town and they cancelled and picked Ben. They never called Muss. I'm not sure what the process was with Smith and Medved but I would guess either would have taken the gig.
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I thought that Dutcher didn't really want to leave San Diego to move to MN, and I can't say I blame him.
 





Full Speed Ahead said:
Pitino and the Lobos are now 8-0 on the season, not much in the way of competition, but they're undefeated. Mashburn is 16.4 PPG and shooting 42% from the 3.
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Is the grass suddenly greener in the southwest? I heard they are suffering a drought.
 


cjbfbp said:
In fairness, they're at the level of the worst Pitino teams right now. I don't think this team is any worse than Pitino's worst team (2015-16). I was hoping that I wouldn't see anything like that again but here we are. At least Pitino's worst team did have one great shooter (Joey King) and one great rebounder (freshman Murphy).

But, if it takes 4 years to get to the level of an average Pitino team, that certainly will not be worth the wait.
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If you want talk about bad teams, Monson’s last (which cost him his job early in the season) was the epitome of awful.
 

tikited said:
I think they really need Copper to stay. Garcia should go though. Payne needs to start next year and Garcia is in the way.
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I like the idea of him playing fewer minutes and off the ball. That seemed to work very well against Purdue. He's too slow, has a horrid handle, and doesn't initiate the offense effectively.

We need a true PG with quickness who can beat his man off the dribble and can be trusted to make a free throw. A little pace and emphasis on transition would greatly help a team that struggles with offensive sets!
 

topos said:
I like the idea of him playing fewer minutes and off the ball. That seemed to work very well against Purdue. He's too slow, has a horrid handle, and doesn't initiate the offense effectively.

We need a true PG with quickness who can beat his man off the dribble and can be trusted to make a free throw. A little pace and emphasis on transition would greatly help a team that struggles with offensive sets!
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It would be a very good thing if Copper could be the backup PG. But I would take what you suggested as well. Henley should not be starting.
 

Minnesara said:
If you want talk about bad teams, Monson’s last (which cost him his job early in the season) was the epitome of awful.
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I had season tickets then as well. The Barn is just as dead now as it was then.
 


leib0039 said:
So lot of things.

1. Johnson has been an absolute train wreck this year. We have no offensive scheme, our defense is a total joke, we cant rebound, we can shoot FT and we arent even putting in effort (JOJ and Payne aside). And Ben goes into the presser like a sad little puppy. BUCK UP AND DO SOMETHING. Those are all squarely on the coach.
2. We missed on every single coach we thought about (Dutcher, Smith, Nedved, Muss). It is pitiful that we ended up with a guy who couldnt get a job in the MAC.
3. I think the freshman/23 recruits are a nice base. But I think some people arent seeing the big picture. MSU has their top recruit ever coming next year, Mich multiple 5*, Rutgers has a guy right behind Evans coming in, OSU has multiple top 40 guys, same with MD. So next year the talent will be fine but this isnt like we have a Duke/UK class. Furthermore, good luck keeping all of them for multiple years, it just wont happen.
3b. What has johnson shown to make you think he can help guys improve? I have seen nothing. Battle has regressed, TT is totally worthless, he cant get anything out of Garcia. I would argue our only two positives this year are Payne and JOJ who I think are simply physically more mature than we thought, I am not sure they are improving skill wise, they are just ready to play college ball now size wise.
4. Good for you people who think a 30 point margin is "positive". Way to live in La La land, I hope you are buying 6,000 tickets a year since you are so enthused about losing. Sorry the rest of us live in the real world where the team we love is spiraling into utter darkness.
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This could not have been said better. I'll add..
  • The people who say it's a winning season if our freshmen improve: Our freshman with the exception of Payne and maybe JoJ wouldn't see the floor on pretty much any other B10 team - Carrington is a joke a Mr Basketball Winner and is looking like Gabe 2.0 (minus the defense). *Henley is flat out bad and should not be in the B10". --> this leads to leib0039's #3: Other Big10 Teams are reloading as well, and loading up with better recruits than the gophers...plus their existing freshmen are better than ours...
    • 2022 Consensus Basketball Team Recruiting Rankings:
    • 2023 Consensus Basketball Team Recruiting Rankings (so far):
      • Michigan State #6
      • Ohio State #11
      • Maryland #19
      • Gophers #26
      • Indiana #29
      • Rutgers #30
      • Michigan #30
      • Iowa #39
      • Purdue #47
  • Other coaches have proven to be much better in the Transfer Portal (Illinois & MSU)
  • Roster construction - ours is a joke: even with next years class we have no true guards, especially guards with speed coming in. This is a must have for a team that wants to be good in college basketball. Competitive basketball is dominated by elite / fast guards...GOPHS and none and the roster and no one signed up to come
 

tikited said:
I had season tickets then as well. The Barn is just as dead now as it was then.
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Worse. Covid followed by a bad season and low expectations for this year has been a terrible series of events that has just knocked the stuffings out of the fan base.
 



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