Ben Johnson is a Disaster

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Things are not right. The facts are a few things driving that. People have called out questionable decisions with Johnson. I support Coach Johnson -- at this time.

 

For the Johnson apologetics out there, i.e. Bfan, Mennosota, etc, interested in your thoughts.

Next year Johnson has a nice class coming in, 2 four* and a five*. If at this time next year you are staring at the same thing, which is a team that is completely uncompetitive and out-coached, do you give Johnson his pink slip/walking papers?
 

Section 100 said:
If you’re just joining us, let me summarize 70+ pages for you:

Sometime in the next 4-5 years, Minnesota hopes to be like Rutgers.
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-Young players putting in long minutes.

-Including Payne with a foot injury.

-Garcia out with an injury.

-Carrington out with an injury.

-Ihnen out with an injury.

-Battle missed time with injury.

-Fox out with an injury.

-Payne, JOJ, Henley, Carrington make for this to be about the youngest team by minutes played in power 5 basketball. Carrington being injured may have changed that, I don't know since Payne and JOJ are getting heavy minutes and Henley right in the rotation.

-Christie and Evans coming in next year.

-Johnson got Garcia from the transfer portal, and probably Garcia from Minnesota had something to do with this.

-This is Minnesota, a program that for a long time has nearly zero recruiting clout. Zero. Evans is the first top prospect in how long, and how many has this team ever, ever been able to get? 3, in modern history of Gophers basketball. Other programs achieve that haul over just two years. And this program has been either bad or not as good as people remember over that time. It's a tough job.

-At Rutgers, which is a slightly worse situation than the Gophers, Pikiell's record was atrocious the first few years. Horrible. Now many years later he's called a great coach and extended to 2020. It took several years for him to show results.

-Others here have called out questionable defense moves during games that make me wonder about the game coaching of the coaching staff. The mistakes with passing and missed shots make me wonder how much of that is the players just are not that good yet or just not going to be good versus if that's consistently worked on. I have no way to know that.

It absolutely is not the mindless, dumb as a rock, the coach stinks. And I do not respect that cliche crowd.

Of the ones who say, "He was brought in to recruit the kids from Minnesota and neither one coming in is from Minnesota." Well, Minnesota only had two spots available to fill, and the two guys coming in are good ones. Last season they did get Payne, JOJ and Carrington from Minnesota.
 

Bfan said:
Another mindless post. This does not draw conclusions from the facts. It draws the worn out conclusion that is a plague in the world of sports, blame the coach.

Examine the facts and assemble the conclusions.

-Injuries. The mindless post makes no reference to that. Not a word about Garcia. Not a word about the two injuries even before the season started. Not a word about Carrington out on injuries. The above post is a cliche post.

-Inexperienced freshman. We all can see we rely on young players like Payne, JOJ, Henley and Carrington before he was hurt. No mention of that.

-A plan of building talent is unfolding that will take time. No mention of that.

-No mention that the best players Minnesota can pull out of the transfer portal are just not that great.

-No mention that Johnson was able to buck that trend with Garcia who is really good -- but he's been out multiple games with an injury.

-No mention that Rutgers was horrible the first few years under Pikiell. They were bad but had nothing to do with the coach. And yet here Gophers are bad and is solely the blame of the coach.


The mindless "Johnson" people are not believable -- at least not with their dumb as a rock arguments.

Give us details why you say that and stop asking us to believe other facts we can all clearly see.

Yes, we can see Payne and JOJ out there. They are freshmen. They are good for freshmen and going to be dynamite, the future of Gophers basketball. Yes, they really do exist. This is not a veteran team. They will be better next year.

Johnson may be part of the problem. Lame arguments not drawing on actual facts are not enough to convince us Johnson is the problem.
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In regards to injuries. We were bad before Garcia and Carrington got hurt. Before Garcia got hurt we were starting a 3rd year Jr, two 4th year SR's, a 5th year SR and a FR. How the hell is that young?
 


The guards are not good. Samuels may be the worse starting guard in the history of Gopher hoops and maybe the second worse big ten starter since Iowa coach Lickligther's son was starting for the Hawkeyes. This season has been PAINFUL.
 

bobmartinfan said:
The guards are not good. Samuels may be the worse starting guard in the history of Gopher hoops and maybe the second worse big ten starter since Iowa coach Lickligther's son was starting for the Hawkeyes. This season has been PAINFUL.
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I think your PAINFUL take is a bit short, REAL short!!! This team is as bad as bad can be.
 


UpAndUnder43 said:
What I posted is a fact. I don’t need every post to have tons of commentary. If you think it’s been good hoops as of late, great. Enjoy the games and the building process through thick and thin.

Lots of teams are missing guys. Carrington isnt great—I don’t think he changes the outcome of a single game he’s missed. Missing Garcia has hurt. He makes them more competitive. Hopefully he is here next year.
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What I posted is fact too. Team looked like they were playing quite a bit better and then two more injuries (including one to the best player on the team) destroyed the remaining bit of depth. Doesn't excuse the terrible play.....but it shouldn't be baffling to wonder what happened.
 



Gophers7633 said:
We're about to have the worst season, maybe ever. I'd say Johnson has us trending backward worse than Pitino ever did.
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It was a bad team and injuries piling up made them even worse. Doesn't impact next year. Johnson will have an opportunity over the next couple (unless next year is truly horrific again) to show what he's been trying to build. Whining isn't going to change that.
 

stocker08 said:
If you are asking someone who knows anything about college basketball.....they'd choose Ben Johnson. Hasn't been two years. Results are inconclusive. Pitino got eight years and had us trending backwards for three straight. Pretty obvious.
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No way. CBJ is coaching for his future next year. Forget this tenure with the gophers. If we don’t improve substantially enough to win a handful of big ten games, I don’t know where he is able to earn another head coaching job. His market value was low when we hired him and is even less now. Pitino has flaws but will have taken two teams to the NCAA after this year, has had players drafted, and like it or not he has a recognizable brand that is appreciated by some. To hire CBJ again would be an even worse gamble than it was when we did it.
 

bc2211 said:
No way. CBJ is coaching for his future next year. Forget this tenure with the gophers. If we don’t improve substantially enough to win a handful of big ten games, I don’t know where he is able to earn another head coaching job. His market value was low when we hired him and is even less now. Pitino has flaws but will have taken two teams to the NCAA after this year, has had players drafted, and like it or not he has a recognizable brand that is appreciated by some. To hire CBJ again would be an even worse gamble than it was when we did it.
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This is going to sound like bashing, but it's a valid observation: those MAC teams that passed on him have to feel like they dodged a bullet right now.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
Could you blow Coyle away?
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I’d tell Coyle that I want a team of all PFs and C’s. Guards are not needed at big time basketball. If we go big they can’t match our size and we could impose our will across the country. Their press would be ineffective as we would pass over the top. Plus we have our version of a combo dirk nowitzki + Manute Bol coming next year in Evans. Sky is the limit.

Starting lineup:
Ihnen pg
Battle SG
fox SF
Garcia PF
Evans C

That’s some size - that has to blow Coyle away
 



bobmartinfan said:
The guards are not good. Samuels may be the worse starting guard in the history of Gopher hoops and maybe the second worse big ten starter since Iowa coach Lickligther's son was starting for the Hawkeyes. This season has been PAINFUL.
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Mav would like a word, although he was an adequate role player by senior year. Apples to oranges
 

Bad Gopher said:
This is going to sound like bashing, but it's a valid observation: those MAC teams that passed on him have to feel like they dodged a bullet right now.
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Right. I also don’t mean what I say as criticism of BJ, just my take on their comparable resumes to date - one has had moderately success seasons at three schools, the other has some wing span coming in. CBJ does get a chance to show something better in year 3, and maybe he will. He recruited well, but that’s only one of several pillars of the job.
 

Lot of good posts in here. It appears the positive Ben posts from Saturday afternoon have evaporated.
 


Bfan said:
Another mindless post. This does not draw conclusions from the facts. It draws the worn out conclusion that is a plague in the world of sports, blame the coach.

Examine the facts and assemble the conclusions.

-Injuries. The mindless post makes no reference to that. Not a word about Garcia. Not a word about the two injuries even before the season started. Not a word about Carrington out on injuries. The above post is a cliche post.

-Inexperienced freshman. We all can see we rely on young players like Payne, JOJ, Henley and Carrington before he was hurt. No mention of that.

-A plan of building talent is unfolding that will take time. No mention of that.

-No mention that the best players Minnesota can pull out of the transfer portal are just not that great.

-No mention that Johnson was able to buck that trend with Garcia who is really good -- but he's been out multiple games with an injury.

-No mention that Rutgers was horrible the first few years under Pikiell. They were bad but had nothing to do with the coach. And yet here Gophers are bad and is solely the blame of the coach.


The mindless "Johnson" people are not believable -- at least not with their dumb as a rock arguments.

Give us details why you say that and stop asking us to believe other facts we can all clearly see.

Yes, we can see Payne and JOJ out there. They are freshmen. They are good for freshmen and going to be dynamite, the future of Gophers basketball. Yes, they really do exist. This is not a veteran team. They will be better next year.

Johnson may be part of the problem. Lame arguments not drawing on actual facts are not enough to convince us Johnson is the problem.
Click to expand...
I will supply some facts.

348th in offensive efficiency.

362nd in free throw shooting

330th in 3pt %

281st in total rebounding rate

226th in defensive efficiency

251st on turnover rate


We are TERRIBLE across the board. Sure injuries don't help, but everyone has injuries. We haven't lost 5 McDonald's all American here. At least Piekell had a direction (defense) when they weren't good.
 

Bfan said:
-Young players putting in long minutes.

-Including Payne with a foot injury.

-Garcia out with an injury.

-Carrington out with an injury.

-Ihnen out with an injury.

-Battle missed time with injury.

-Fox out with an injury.

-Payne, JOJ, Henley, Carrington make for this to be about the youngest team by minutes played in power 5 basketball. Carrington being injured may have changed that, I don't know since Payne and JOJ are getting heavy minutes and Henley right in the rotation.

-Christie and Evans coming in next year.

-Johnson got Garcia from the transfer portal, and probably Garcia from Minnesota had something to do with this.

-This is Minnesota, a program that for a long time has nearly zero recruiting clout. Zero. Evans is the first top prospect in how long, and how many has this team ever, ever been able to get? 3, in modern history of Gophers basketball. Other programs achieve that haul over just two years. And this program has been either bad or not as good as people remember over that time. It's a tough job.

-At Rutgers, which is a slightly worse situation than the Gophers, Pikiell's record was atrocious the first few years. Horrible. Now many years later he's called a great coach and extended to 2020. It took several years for him to show results.

-Others here have called out questionable defense moves during games that make me wonder about the game coaching of the coaching staff. The mistakes with passing and missed shots make me wonder how much of that is the players just are not that good yet or just not going to be good versus if that's consistently worked on. I have no way to know that.

It absolutely is not the mindless, dumb as a rock, the coach stinks. And I do not respect that cliche crowd.

Of the ones who say, "He was brought in to recruit the kids from Minnesota and neither one coming in is from Minnesota." Well, Minnesota only had two spots available to fill, and the two guys coming in are good ones. Last season they did get Payne, JOJ and Carrington from Minnesota.
Click to expand...

I will repeat this:

ng players putting in long minutes.

-Including Payne with a foot injury.

-Garcia out with an injury.

-Carrington out with an injury.

-Ihnen out with an injury.

-Battle missed time with injury.

-Fox out with an injury.

-Payne, JOJ, Henley, Carrington make for this to be about the youngest team by minutes played in power 5 basketball. Carrington being injured may have changed that, I don't know since Payne and JOJ are getting heavy minutes and Henley right in the rotation.

-Christie and Evans coming in next year.

-Johnson got Garcia from the transfer portal, and probably Garcia from Minnesota had something to do with this.

-This is Minnesota, a program that for a long time has nearly zero recruiting clout. Zero. Evans is the first top prospect in how long, and how many has this team ever, ever been able to get? 3, in modern history of Gophers basketball. Other programs achieve that haul over just two years. And this program has been either bad or not as good as people remember over that time. It's a tough job.

-At Rutgers, which is a slightly worse situation than the Gophers, Pikiell's record was atrocious the first few years. Horrible. Now many years later he's called a great coach and extended to 2020. It took several years for him to show results.

-Others here have called out questionable defense moves during games that make me wonder about the game coaching of the coaching staff. The mistakes with passing and missed shots make me wonder how much of that is the players just are not that good yet or just not going to be good versus if that's consistently worked on. I have no way to know that.


Of the ones who say, "He was brought in to recruit the kids from Minnesota and neither one coming in is from Minnesota." Well, Minnesota only had two spots available to fill, and the two guys coming in are good ones. Last season they did get Payne, JOJ and Carrington from Minnesota.
 


Bfan said:
-Young players putting in long minutes.

-Including Payne with a foot injury.

-Garcia out with an injury.

-Carrington out with an injury.

-Ihnen out with an injury.

-Battle missed time with injury.

-Fox out with an injury.

-Payne, JOJ, Henley, Carrington make for this to be about the youngest team by minutes played in power 5 basketball. Carrington being injured may have changed that, I don't know since Payne and JOJ are getting heavy minutes and Henley right in the rotation.

-Christie and Evans coming in next year.

-Johnson got Garcia from the transfer portal, and probably Garcia from Minnesota had something to do with this.

-This is Minnesota, a program that for a long time has nearly zero recruiting clout. Zero. Evans is the first top prospect in how long, and how many has this team ever, ever been able to get? 3, in modern history of Gophers basketball. Other programs achieve that haul over just two years. And this program has been either bad or not as good as people remember over that time. It's a tough job.

-At Rutgers, which is a slightly worse situation than the Gophers, Pikiell's record was atrocious the first few years. Horrible. Now many years later he's called a great coach and extended to 2020. It took several years for him to show results.

-Others here have called out questionable defense moves during games that make me wonder about the game coaching of the coaching staff. The mistakes with passing and missed shots make me wonder how much of that is the players just are not that good yet or just not going to be good versus if that's consistently worked on. I have no way to know that.

It absolutely is not the mindless, dumb as a rock, the coach stinks. And I do not respect that cliche crowd.

Of the ones who say, "He was brought in to recruit the kids from Minnesota and neither one coming in is from Minnesota." Well, Minnesota only had two spots available to fill, and the two guys coming in are good ones. Last season they did get Payne, JOJ and Carrington from Minnesota.
Click to expand...
Wasn't he showing results in terms of defensive success and identity in year 2? They were bad overall, but were showing improvement on the court (not just blind hope that things will be better when the roster gets older). If we had a bad record, but were playing good defense, and losing because our young players were making a few inexperienced player decisions in key spots at the end of close games, I would be open to more patience.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
It’s almost a certainty things would be better under another coach. This is a bottom 3 program in P6.
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Technically, Cal, Tulsa, South Carolina, and Louisville are currently worse. So, bottom 5.

I love how Bfan is now pointing to Pikiell to justify his weird defense of a failing coach. It’s been pointed out that a) Rutgers was a lot worse over a 30-year period than Minnesota has ever been (and therefore their fan expectations were much lower), b) he had over a decade as a head coach at a mid-major where he started slow and then had a lot of success, c) his first two years at Rutgers - while they did lose a lot - showed tremendous improvement on the defensive end - top 25 by the end of year 2, d) no one within the Rutgers community wanted to run him after his first 2 years - that is a convenient assumption/myth constructed by the Ben bobos to justify the complete lack of anything else that is similar between the two situations.
 

leib0039 said:
I will supply some facts.

348th in offensive efficiency.

362nd in free throw shooting

330th in 3pt %
1st in next year's recruits' wingspan.
281st in total rebounding rate

226th in defensive efficiency

251st on turnover rate


We are TERRIBLE across the board. Sure injuries don't help, but everyone has injuries. We haven't lost 5 McDonald's all American here. At least Piekell had a direction (defense) when they weren't good.
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Fixed it for you.
 




I just bought season tickets!!!


Just kidding. LOL
 

stocker08 said:
What I posted is fact too. Team looked like they were playing quite a bit better and then two more injuries (including one to the best player on the team) destroyed the remaining bit of depth. Doesn't excuse the terrible play.....but it shouldn't be baffling to wonder what happened.
Click to expand...

No one is baffled they are losing. But 3 losses by a combined 90 points means there are some other issues besides the injuries.
 

stocker08 said:
It was a bad team and injuries piling up made them even worse. Doesn't impact next year. Johnson will have an opportunity over the next couple (unless next year is truly horrific again) to show what he's been trying to build. Whining isn't going to change that.
Click to expand...

The problem is, we're so bad that even some improvement next year, will still mean we suck.

Like, what's the end game for next season? To go like 6-14 in the B1G? Compared to this year, that's great, but that's still shitty. And even 6-14 is probably optimistic.
 

bc2211 said:
Right. I also don’t mean what I say as criticism of BJ, just my take on their comparable resumes to date - one has had moderately success seasons at three schools, the other has some wing span coming in. CBJ does get a chance to show something better in year 3, and maybe he will. He recruited well, but that’s only one of several pillars of the job.
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I think there is a path for CBJ not to return for year 3.

If the rest of this year goes anything like the last 3 games & a bunch of our core players decide to transfer, I think his days would be numbered.
 

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