Ben Johnson is a Disaster

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formerlybis said:
I’ve stayed out of this thread for a couple months, mostly because I no longer believe “disaster” is the correct descriptor. While he hasn’t yet proven he can be a top coach, he met my criteria for retention.

As for the roster and portal adds, if the rotation players all return (plus Asuma), it’ll be hard to attract a meaningful portaler. Even last year with 3 starters leaving, it was a slog and required identifying players with few other offers to hit. The premier transfers all want to play starter minutes. You grab one if you can, but that means someone in the rotation will likely leave as a consequence. May not be the worst thing if it’s an upgrade, but it won’t improve depth.
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I'd push back on this pretty hard. If a P5 can't get a good player in the portal because of this roster, he shouldn't be the coach. You seem to imply we are so flush with talent there is no opportunity there. We might not even make the NIT! We played 6 guys basically the last 3 games. There's plenty of opportunity there. Some in here are DRASTICALLY over rating our talent. I like our guys, some nice players but this isn't like we are a top 5 team with 10 rotation guys coming back.
 

leib0039 said:
I'd push back on this pretty hard. If a P5 can't get a good player in the portal because of this roster, he shouldn't be the coach. You seem to imply we are so flush with talent there is no opportunity there. We might not even make the NIT! We played 6 guys basically the last 3 games. There's plenty of opportunity there. Some in here are DRASTICALLY over rating our talent. I like our guys, some nice players but this isn't like we are a top 5 team with 10 rotation guys coming back.
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Sounds like we entered the Twilight Zone. A place where NIL doesn't exist. Where the Gophers have no salary cap they are up against. Where MN teams no longer build the team by stocking young players who progress. Where Minnesota does not compete in the middle range historically. Where Patino actually didn't lose to all the Big Ten bottom feeders his last season.
 

SHGopher said:
Sounds like we entered the Twilight Zone. A place where NIL doesn't exist. Where the Gophers have no salary cap they are up against. Where MN teams no longer build the team by stocking young players who progress. Where Minnesota does not compete in the middle range historically. Where Patino actually didn't lose to all the Big Ten bottom feeders his last season.
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Sorry I meant Pitino.
 

SHGopher said:
Sounds like we entered the Twilight Zone. A place where NIL doesn't exist. Where the Gophers have no salary cap they are up against. Where MN teams no longer build the team by stocking young players who progress. Where Minnesota does not compete in the middle range historically. Where Patino actually didn't lose to all the Big Ten bottom feeders his last season.
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In theory that's ideal. But the 2022 class CBJ brought in is down to Payne being a key contributor and about 15 minutes per game from Carrington. JOJ and Betts don't play and Henley transferred out.
 

Gophers7633 said:
In theory that's ideal. But the 2022 class CBJ brought in is down to Payne being a key contributor and about 15 minutes per game from Carrington. JOJ and Betts don't play and Henley transferred out.
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And they do not need to.hit the portal for what Christie brings.

Payne has made progress. Check his FT's lately.

Carrington is unknown.

Lots of.young guys on the bench doing nothing (yet or never).

That is the dirt on CBJ. Decent roster, but where is the payoff? When is the payoff? That opens a lot of questions.

Still have a season to go before questions become indictments.
 


leib0039 said:
I'd push back on this pretty hard. If a P5 can't get a good player in the portal because of this roster, he shouldn't be the coach. You seem to imply we are so flush with talent there is no opportunity there. We might not even make the NIT! We played 6 guys basically the last 3 games. There's plenty of opportunity there. Some in here are DRASTICALLY over rating our talent. I like our guys, some nice players but this isn't like we are a top 5 team with 10 rotation guys coming back.
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This isn't quite what I was saying. Most people were talking about adding a player as adding to the core that's already here. What I'm saying is that if they do add an upgrade (a very big if), the player losing their spot hits the portal. That's just the way it works now. Depth is very hard thing in this era.
 

formerlybis said:
This isn't quite what I was saying. Most people were talking about adding a player as adding to the core that's already here. What I'm saying is that if they do add an upgrade (a very big if), the player losing their spot hits the portal. That's just the way it works now. Depth is very hard thing in this era.
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And I don't disagree that it's a very tough job. But again, if you finish 9th in the conference with 1 Q1 win, are only playing 6 players, don't even make the NIT and you lose 1 solid guy every time you get 1, you are not qualified to be a D1 coach. It is literally his job to show guys how to benefit the team while also helping themselves. Hundreds of coaches do it every year.
 

leib0039 said:
And I don't disagree that it's a very tough job. But again, if you finish 9th in the conference with 1 Q1 win, are only playing 6 players, don't even make the NIT and you lose 1 solid guy every time you get 1, you are not qualified to be a D1 coach. It is literally his job to show guys how to benefit the team while also helping themselves. Hundreds of coaches do it every year.
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Situations are different everywhere. Most of those hundreds of coaches have a rotation hole to fill through graduation, portal loss, or early entry into the draft. That hole is the sales pitch. Mast goes to Nebraska to replace Derrick Walker. He doesn't go if he's still there.
 

formerlybis said:
Situations are different everywhere. Most of those hundreds of coaches have a rotation hole to fill through graduation, portal loss, or early entry into the draft. That hole is the sales pitch. Mast goes to Nebraska to replace Derrick Walker. He doesn't go if he's still there.
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I think it would be pretty easy for us to add a wing and for the U to still be the best place for Mitchell and Carrington. Could they transfer out? Sure. People are fickle. We cannot improve if we are worried about how bringing in talent/depth will impact the players we have.

I'm sure being a college coach is a pain now but you need to develop contingencies for contingencies. If you can't find a way to bring some depth to your roster, that's on you.
 



Gophers7633 said:
You said the reason this year's team is better than Pitino's last team was because of the number of Big Ten wins. I said that was because of the easier schedule(because you ignored every other statistical metric that favored Pitino's team).

How else am I supposed to take that? So are you admitting this year's schedule was easier?
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Wins is only one piece of the puzzle. Was the Big Ten schedule easier this year? Probably, yes. Doesn't change the fact that the Big Ten was good in 2020.....but overrated. How is this difficult to understand?
 

stocker08 said:
Wins is only one piece of the puzzle. Was the Big Ten schedule easier this year? Probably, yes. Doesn't change the fact that the Big Ten was good in 2020.....but overrated. How is this difficult to understand?
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My point this entire time was that the schedule this year was easier, which led to a better conference record. We also had more wins this because we played 4 more games. This team was greatly helped by the fact we only played Purdue, Illinois and Wisconsin once. It just is what it is. Now this will come off as me shitting on this team, but it's just a fact.
 

stocker08 said:
Wins is only one piece of the puzzle. Was the Big Ten schedule easier this year? Probably, yes. Doesn't change the fact that the Big Ten was good in 2020.....but overrated. How is this difficult to understand?
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I can't see the post you're replying to but, as far as the difficulty of our Big Ten schedule this season, yes, we only played Purdue and Illinois only once but we also played Michigan and Rutgers only once. We played the top 5 teams in 7 games and we played the bottom 5 teams in 7 games. The remaining 3 teams (Michigan State, Iowa, and Indiana) all finished 10-10 and we played each of them twice. We probably had the quintessentially "average" Big Ten schedule.
 

Gophers7633 said:
My point this entire time was that the schedule this year was easier, which led to a better conference record. We also had more wins this because we played 4 more games. This team was greatly helped by the fact we only played Purdue, Illinois and Wisconsin once. It just is what it is. Now this will come off as me shitting on this team, but it's just a fact.
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As posted above.....we also only got Michigan and Rutgers once. And both Purdue and Illinois were on the road.....where few teams did well.
 



stocker08 said:
As posted above.....we also only got Michigan and Rutgers once. And both Purdue and Illinois were on the road.....where few teams did well.
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Yeah, and it was still easier this year. You even admitted to it. You're just arguing to argue at this point.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
I can't see the post you're replying to but, as far as the difficulty of our Big Ten schedule this season, yes, we only played Purdue and Illinois only once but we also played Michigan and Rutgers only once. We played the top 5 teams in 7 games and we played the bottom 5 teams in 7 games. The remaining 3 teams (Michigan State, Iowa, and Indiana) all finished 10-10 and we played each of them twice. We probably had the quintessentially "average" Big Ten schedule.
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That's because you're butthurt that I said Indiana was our 2nd easiest road game we had left, at the time we lost to them, which don't ya know, turned out to be correct.
 


stocker08 said:
Easier schedule....but won three more Big Ten games. You're being purposely dense if you think that means nothing.
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I don't think it means nearly as much as you obviously do. Either way, we'll see what happens this game, and perhaps an additional game, if we're in a better spot now than when Pitino got fired.
 

Gophers7633 said:
I don't think it means nearly as much as you obviously do. Either way, we'll see what happens this game, and perhaps an additional game, if we're in a better spot now than when Pitino got fired.
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Again....it's not just the results of this year vs 2020. It's also roster composition going into next year.....where I think this team is in a much better position.
 

stocker08 said:
Again....it's not just the results of this year vs 2020. It's also roster composition going into next year.....where I think this team is in a much better position.
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Yeah, but we'll never know because Pitino was rightfully fired. It's not like Pitino couldn't get talented players. I mean his last two team at New Mexico have been better than us, unfortunately.
 

Gophers7633 said:
Yeah, but we'll never know because Pitino was rightfully fired. It's not like Pitino couldn't get talented players. I mean his last two team at New Mexico have been better than us, unfortunately.
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True.
 



BJ after 3 years:
40-53 overall
15-44 during the B1G regular season
18-14 in year three with the weakest schedule over the past 2 decades.
Finished 1-5 over the final 6 games, and lost 4 of those by double digits. Gave up over 100 in the other loss by 8.
No NCAA tournament appearances, and likely no postseason play over 3 years.
Wins over ranked teams: 0
Wins over rivals Iowa/Wisconsin: 0
Attendance has been at all time lows.

The only schools where this earns you a 4th season, are at schools who don't care about winning.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
BJ after 3 years:
40-53 overall
15-44 during the B1G regular season
18-14 in year three with the weakest schedule over the past 2 decades.
Finished 1-5 over the final 6 games, and lost 4 of those by double digits. Gave up over 100 in the other loss by 8.
No NCAA tournament appearances, and likely no postseason play over 3 years.
Wins over ranked teams: 0
Wins over rivals Iowa/Wisconsin: 0
Attendance has been at all time lows.

The only schools where this earns you a 4th season, are at schools who don't care about winning.
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A case can definitely be made for pulling the plug now but the reality is he is going to get another year unless there is once again major roster turnover this off season. If this group stays together I am behind the idea of giving it one more year. If we will be looking at a total rebuild again cut your losses and move on.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
BJ after 3 years:
40-53 overall
15-44 during the B1G regular season
18-14 in year three with the weakest schedule over the past 2 decades.
Finished 1-5 over the final 6 games, and lost 4 of those by double digits. Gave up over 100 in the other loss by 8.
No NCAA tournament appearances, and likely no postseason play over 3 years.
Wins over ranked teams: 0
Wins over rivals Iowa/Wisconsin: 0
Attendance has been at all time lows.

The only schools where this earns you a 4th season, are at schools who don't care about winning.
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I have never had more apathy for the basketball program than I have had over the last three years. Today's outcome was written before the game started. If Johnson stays next season, which I am sure he will, it will be more of the same. I care deeply about Gopher sports, which is why I want him fired. The Gophers need to get somebody in there that gives this program hope because all hope is lost and enthusiasm is dwindling for this program. I appreciate the optimistic Gopher fans on here who support Ben and I would like for him to succeed as much as anybody because I want the program to succeed, but when I see the results on the Court it screams to me that it is time for a change.
 

MNVCGUY said:
A case can definitely be made for pulling the plug now but the reality is he is going to get another year unless there is once again major roster turnover this off season. If this group stays together I am behind the idea of giving it one more year. If we will be looking at a total rebuild again cut your losses and move on.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again, you don't make coaching decisions based on which players come and go. That will happen every year regardless of the coach.

If you need certain players to stay so that maybe they can be more competitive in year 4, then you have the wrong coach.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
BJ after 3 years:
40-53 overall
15-44 during the B1G regular season
18-14 in year three with the weakest schedule over the past 2 decades.
Finished 1-5 over the final 6 games, and lost 4 of those by double digits. Gave up over 100 in the other loss by 8.
No NCAA tournament appearances, and likely no postseason play over 3 years.
Wins over ranked teams: 0
Wins over rivals Iowa/Wisconsin: 0
Attendance has been at all time lows.

The only schools where this earns you a 4th season, are at schools who don't care about winning.
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15 wins over 3 years is bottom feeder territory, according to delusional folks on here, he has earned another year

Look no further than the football program for comparison, despite what you think of PJ he has raised expectations by at. least a baseline of ~8-9 Wins per season

Here, the standard is so low we have people that are happy we haven't made the NIT and comparing this staff to Pitino's records without looking at the difference in products on the court, even if Pitino's worst year the games were interesting and I never felt there were games where we had ZERO chance, my only surprise this year was how good we looked in a Loss to Purdue.
 

GO4INLALALAND said:
I have never had more apathy for the basketball program than I have had over the last three years. Today's outcome was written before the game started. If Johnson stays next season, which I am sure he will, it will be more of the same. I care deeply about Gopher sports, which is why I want him fired. The Gophers need to get somebody in there that gives this program hope because all hope is lost and enthusiasm is dwindling for this program. I appreciate the optimistic Gopher fans on here who support Ben and I would like for him to succeed as much as anybody because I want the program to succeed, but when I see the results on the Court it screams to me that it is time for a change.
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This to me is perfectly stated. The first two years i was mad/annoyed because we were so bad, after todays loss I just feel apathetic. I am over the excuses and well if this happens next year and well this coach said this or that. It all rings hollow.

I also think he ends up staying next year, and I suppose I get it, but I think there needs to be a significant list of expectations. We must make the NCAA tourney, again I am over the excuses, there are none anymore, make it or hes gone.

I am sick of this team that I love not even mattering in the least. I dont want to hear excuses or "well this is our place in this sport" no thats BS, coaches matter in CBB, in my opinion more than any sport at any level. Yes its frustrating to cycle through them, but you need a great one and that can change things so quickly. 3 years in CBJ has lost me, there is no more excitement for games or the program. That cant happen.
 

So if the four impact players--Garcia, Christie, Hawkins and Payne--come back next year, there's certainly potential for a promising season. Ok, but what about after that? We will lose Garcia and Hawkins and likely Christie to his NBA aspirations. Coyle needs to look at the big picture, not just one year. What's in the pipeline? Asuma is essentially the '24 recruiting class and will be unproven, so Johnson will largely need to fill out the roster through the portal. That doesn't feel like a longterm plan, it feels like he's constantly needing to patch together a roster year-to-year. What if we have a successful year in 24-25, but revert back to the mediocre mean in 25-26? Does that get him fired? My point is that the future doesn't look so unbelievably bright (despite what Izzo says) where you don't pull the trigger now. One potentially very good year, followed by a cloud of uncertainty beyond that, shouldn't impact the decision Coyle has to make now. Johnson hasn't earned the benefit of that doubt.
 

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