Ben Johnson is a Disaster

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Dano564 said:
I think we are 365 days away from a decision if I'm counting right and we lose weakling Wednesday 2024.

(And don't take this as me wanting him gone. I want him to be successful, but there are so few signs right now and I think I'm being realistic considering the financial pressures coming with USC / UCLA and new media deal).
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It was an awful season. Here's too hoping that 300 days from now we all hope that Ben is our coach for years to come- based on things we see happening on court and in recruiting.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
So if Ben reaches the record Pitino was fired for in season 3, which would be his best record, that's enough to give him a year 4?

We might as well move to the Summit if that's the case.
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It's all over. There is no hope for UMN basketball. We are exiting the B1G, like U of Chicago did so many years before us. Even the Summit League is too far above us. There is no hope. All is lost. Even a HOF coach can not save us from our doom. Woe is us!
 

Dano564 said:
I think we are 365 days away from a decision if I'm counting right and we lose weakling Wednesday 2024.

(And don't take this as me wanting him gone. I want him to be successful, but there are so few signs right now and I think I'm being realistic considering the financial pressures coming with USC / UCLA and new media deal).
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The decision has been made. The Regents are shutting down all athletics at UMN in favor of "Noodling for Catfish" down on the Flats.
 

MennoSota said:
It's all over. There is no hope for UMN basketball. We are exiting the B1G, like U of Chicago did so many years before us. Even the Summit League is too far above us. There is no hope. All is lost. Even a HOF coach can not save us from our doom. Woe is us!
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Ben’s failing has broken you.
 


Dano564 said:
I'm not advocating for it.

I don't think it should just come down to wins or losses.
If he has a young nucleus that improves during the year, and they beat some good teams down the line instead of a 10 point come from behind win against Rutgers, perhaps that paints the picture that the team is ready to take the next step. Especially if it's a team driven by it's youth.

If it's largely a team that depends on Dawson Garcia and he opts to leave after 2023-24 and the rest of the team is meh... then it's not good enough.
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6 wins in the conference and being competitive with a 'young nucleus' isn't progress though. That's what Pitino was fired for. Plus you're never guaranteed to keep the 'young nucleus' around.

It's only progress if you've reduced your standards to being the worst team in the B1G every year. Ben will have made zero progress in 3 years from Pitino. The nucleus of Carr, Robbins, Mashburn Jr, and Gabe, was far better than any 'young nucleus' Ben has now, or will have next year.
 



Dano564 said:
I'm not advocating for it.

I don't think it should just come down to wins or losses.
If he has a young nucleus that improves during the year, and they beat some good teams down the line instead of a 10 point come from behind win against Rutgers, perhaps that paints the picture that the team is ready to take the next step. Especially if it's a team driven by it's youth.

If it's largely a team that depends on Dawson Garcia and he opts to leave after 2023-24 and the rest of the team is meh... then it's not good enough.
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bga1 said:
This is correct. If we are headed in the right direction we will be able to see it and it won't be a strict wins and losses evaluation. It will be a combination of how it looks on court, how committed the players are, the record and who he signs this fall (not that signings are sacred anymore- as we now know from Mr Evans). If all of those things are in order the fans will start to come around as well.
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I hope that, in this kind of scenario, it's true progress and not fools gold. The vibe I'm getting from these kinds of posts feels like what we'd be talking about is a retrenchment with lowered expectations.
 



Bad Gopher said:
I hope that, in this kind of scenario, it's true progress and not fools gold. The vibe I'm getting from these kinds of posts feels like what we'd be talking about is a retrenchment with lowered expectations.
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I don't think that's good enough, but I could see an opportunity where he would get a 4th year IF a ton of talent emerges and they come together late in the year and they are all coming back, etc.

But it's like we need 99 of 100 things to go right for this to happen.
We're largely going to be picked 14th out of 14 teams when pre-season basketball media starts projecting conference standings.

How we suddenly believe Ben's going to recruit the right people through the transfer portal to make this team anything higher than a weakling Wednesday team just seems improbable at this point by any logical odds.
 

Dano564 said:
I don't think that's good enough, but I could see an opportunity where he would get a 4th year IF a ton of talent emerges and they come together late in the year and they are all coming back, etc.

But it's like we need 99 of 100 things to go right for this to happen.
We're largely going to be picked 14th out of 14 teams when pre-season basketball media starts projecting conference standings.

How we suddenly believe Ben's going to recruit the right people through the transfer portal to make this team anything higher than a weakling Wednesday team just seems improbable at this point by any logical odds.
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Guarantee we won’t be last. Coach was doing the fake it till you make it routine.
 


Spaulding!No! said:
Guarantee we won’t be last. Coach was doing the fake it till you make it routine.
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We should have known this ship wasn't righting as soon as he guaranteed he wouldn't finish in last place, and did... two years in a row. He must have really had something in mind after making that declaration. Wonder what happened.
 



mngolf said:
Instead of constant sarcasm, how bout you just admit you were wrong and move on from it?
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Oh yes, I was wrong. The entire UMN athletic department is gone. There is no hope for UMN. The Regents will vote to leave the B1G and all athletics to become like U of Chicago. We can cheer on Luke Loewe in his fishing boat and enjoy the 3 months of unfrozen land. 😏
 

Dano564 said:
I don't think that's good enough, but I could see an opportunity where he would get a 4th year IF a ton of talent emerges and they come together late in the year and they are all coming back, etc.

But it's like we need 99 of 100 things to go right for this to happen.
We're largely going to be picked 14th out of 14 teams when pre-season basketball media starts projecting conference standings.

How we suddenly believe Ben's going to recruit the right people through the transfer portal to make this team anything higher than a weakling Wednesday team just seems improbable at this point by any logical odds.
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No talent is coming. They are all leaving. The Regents are shutting down athletics at the U. You will be forced to cheer for...Iowa!!!! 😱🤯
 

MennoSota said:
No talent is coming. They are all leaving. The Regents are shutting down athletics at the U. You will be forced to cheer for...Iowa!!!! 😱🤯
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Can you imagine Jaden Henley transferring having this kind of impact on someone's life? I knew Menno didn't have a lot going for him but this is now a 4 day long hissy fit.
 

mngolf said:
Instead of constant sarcasm, how bout you just admit you were wrong and move on from it?
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so the constant sarcasm is ok if it’s negative? The constant complaining is on if it’s negative? No one is denying this year was awful. It’s fine for others to try and have some hope. You can ignore them just like they can ignore the others.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
Can you imagine Jaden Henley transferring having this kind of impact on someone's life? I knew Menno didn't have a lot going for him but this is now a 4 day long hissy fit.
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The whole thing is imploding before our eyes. Everyone is bailing and leaving. They are all following Bob to Iowa...
 


Gopherfan84 said:
so the constant sarcasm is ok if it’s negative? The constant complaining is on if it’s negative? No one is denying this year was awful. It’s fine for others to try and have some hope. You can ignore them just like they can ignore the others.
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Have you seen his posts? The loser is throwing his controller on the ground and pouting.

We can ignore them if we'd like but we can also point at him and laugh.
 

Gopherfan84 said:
so the constant sarcasm is ok if it’s negative? The constant complaining is on if it’s negative? No one is denying this year was awful. It’s fine for others to try and have some hope. You can ignore them just like they can ignore the others.
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Constant. Understand that word? And sarcasm only. No other thoughts. And people are allowed to have opinions, negative or positive. But sarcasm and only that serve no purpose. Try again.
 

USAF said:
To summarize: Ben is a disaster, but we have to wait another year for the already ordained firing.
Fans should just "brace for (another) tough season."

Now that truly is "sophomoric."
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Yup and it isn't going be any better next year as you say
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
So if Ben reaches the record Pitino was fired for in season 3, which would be his best record, that's enough to give him a year 4?

We might as well move to the Summit if that's the case.
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Look, we all get that you are desperate to see Johnson fired but you have to know there is a difference between winning 6 conference games in year 3 vs. winning 6 conference games in year 8. Neither mark is great but in year 3 you are still in the building phase, by year 8 you should be well past that point.

I feel confident in saying there is a bar Johnson will have to reach in year 3 to get a year 4 but I don't know exactly what that is going to be. Gotta believe there have to be some obvious signs of improvement though.
 

Dano564 said:
I don't think that's good enough, but I could see an opportunity where he would get a 4th year IF a ton of talent emerges and they come together late in the year and they are all coming back, etc.

But it's like we need 99 of 100 things to go right for this to happen.
We're largely going to be picked 14th out of 14 teams when pre-season basketball media starts projecting conference standings.

How we suddenly believe Ben's going to recruit the right people through the transfer portal to make this team anything higher than a weakling Wednesday team just seems improbable at this point by any logical odds.
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I get that it is easy right now to just assume the worst and believe that there is no way Johnson will be able to find the players he needs to get this thing back on track.

But the reality is that Johnson will be the coach next year so you have the choice as a fan to either be pissed off about it and assume it is all going to crap.....or hope for the best and give him the chance to at least work the portal this off season. Maybe he fails and the team continues to fail and we are looking for a new coach next year......or maybe....just maybe he finds the pieces he needs and things start to turn around.

The beauty of basketball is that you don't have to find a ton of players to turn thing around quickly, but you do have to find them.
 


MNVCGUY said:
Look, we all get that you are desperate to see Johnson fired but you have to know there is a difference between winning 6 conference games in year 3 vs. winning 6 conference games in year 8. Neither mark is great but in year 3 you are still in the building phase, by year 8 you should be well past that point.

I feel confident in saying there is a bar Johnson will have to reach in year 3 to get a year 4 but I don't know exactly what that is going to be. Gotta believe there have to be some obvious signs of improvement though.
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6 wins in the conference should be where the team was at in year 1, not in year 3, especially with the transfer portal. Successful coaches will make the NCAA tournament at least once in their first 3 seasons. That should be the benchmark.

13-49 in B1G games is pathetic through 3 years no matter how you want to try and defend it. And that's where Ben would be if he finishes next year with 6 wins. Brewster was a more competent football coach.
 

tikited said:
Another disaster?
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There's that final scene in The China Syndrome where something starts to happen that will make the mishap they'd been investigating through the course of the movie minor by comparison.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
6 wins in the conference should be where the team was at in year 1, not in year 3, especially with the transfer portal. Successful coaches will make the NCAA tournament at least once in their first 3 seasons. That should be the benchmark.

13-49 in B1G games is pathetic through 3 years no matter how you want to try and defend it. And that's where Ben would be if he finishes next year with 6 wins. Brewster was a more competent football coach.
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I'm not trying to defend anything other than to say Johnson should at least be allowed to have year 3 before people just assume how it is going to go.

There is definitely a chance the Johnson hire goes the way of the Brewster hire....first time head coach put in a really tough spot at a job they weren't ready for....but the difference in basketball is that you don't have to find nearly as many pieces as football to be successful so with what is coming back there is a chance Johnson could get things on track next year if he can find the right portal guards.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
6 wins in the conference should be where the team was at in year 1, not in year 3, especially with the transfer portal. Successful coaches will make the NCAA tournament at least once in their first 3 seasons. That should be the benchmark.

13-49 in B1G games is pathetic through 3 years no matter how you want to try and defend it. And that's where Ben would be if he finishes next year with 6 wins. Brewster was a more competent football coach.
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What's done is done. Ben is the coach next year. I have been disgusted with the performance so far, but I still believe it is possible for him to get this done. He has made some mistakes but I also see learning and some ability to recruit. If he gets to 7, 8 wins or better this year, he will get year 4. That's not a good performance but it certainly would be a serious improvement offering a chance to take the next step. You can't win in college basketball without good guard play. We didn't have it. Let's see if he can get better guards. The front court looks very good and he might be able to sell that. I am confident that Christie is going to be good- he's a top 5 player in Illinois and putting up big numbers. That's pretty solid.

Fire the coach and you melt the whole thing down again. I hope we don't have to get there.
 

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